Willie Bobo On Verve

[JSngry]

Took a shot on Willie Bob's Finest Hour and found the contents to fall into three rough categories for me:

1. Kinda cheap covers of pop tunes played with a still-infectious party groove. What's already here is all I'd care to have.
2. Kinda cool covers of pop tunes played with an even more infectious spirit. I'd not mind some more of this, just not big lots of it.
3. Groovin' shit that it don't matter what it is, I'd like lots more of this, nooooo problem.

So my question is this - this guy looks like he did 5, 6, 7 or so albums for Verve. How do they collectively play out relative to the above bags (realizing that subjectivity of taste trumps any attempts at categorization in this regard).

Another way to ask - if I go ahead and do the entire Verve output, will I end up with more than one of Willie Bobo's finest hours, or is the title of this CD more or less literal?

And ok, let's split the difference - are there some that are better than others, and if so, please elaborate.

For a rough guide, here's what for me is a Category 2 Bobocane:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_ijT82WgOs&feature=fvwrel

The degraded YouTube audio doesn't let you get right into the middle of the rhythm section like the actual CD does. I've been walking to this stuff for the last few days with earbuds, and it's real easy to get in there and not want to get out.

Here's a Category 3, a slickass Eddie Harris cover with bugalu mojo for days:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVcbWBhwKFA

I can live with that, ya' know?

Another thing I notice is that there is a blatant absence of piano playing the montunos. If/when they get played, it's by guitar. This is standard Bobo practice during these period? It's kinda neat, as the thinner texture of the guitar lets the percussion come more tot the fore.

As always, thanks in advance.

Edited August 26, 2012 by JSngry

[GA Russell]

Back around '66 and '67, Willie Bobo was one of the few jazz artists whose records I always saw at the record stores with poor jazz selections.

What those stores had was mostly Verve, Impulse! and Columbia, and Willie Bobo was always there.

[mikeweil]

I have three of the Verve CD reissues, and they all have the same three way mix of tunes that Jim so aptly described. I have to admit I rarely play them. It must have been great party music back then, and he toured a lot with that band, but in retrospect it lacks a bit in depth. His one Roulette album is a bit jazzier.

The one Columbia I have heard is pretty commercial.

[StarThrower]

Dated material is what has kept me away from buying his albums. Herbie's Inventions And Dimensions is the best "Wille Bobo album" I've heard.

But the person to ask is Conguero, and KCLU radio host Raul Rico. He owns just about every Latin jazz album ever recorded.

Edited August 26, 2012 by starthrower

[DMP]

The guitar replacing the piano was the gimmick of those albums - to me, it always sounded slightly out of tune. But I've owned them all since they came out, they were always fun - and sometimes more. The Verve reissue of Spanish Grease/Uno Dos Tres (is it still available?) would be the one to get, and the "Talkin' Verve" is also a strong compilation.

[Teasing the Korean]

I have 4 or 5 of his Verve albums and I would say that, in general, they fall into Jim's 2nd category, with some of the first and third. (I refuse to say "Category 1" or "Category 3" because I'm preparing for a hurricane).

I also have the Talkin' Verve CD volume, but in general, I don't like this series too much, because it focuses too much on the first category of tunes, at least on the 4 Talkin' Verve volumes I have.

But I think those Willie Bob LPs are really indicative of everything I love about Verve in the 1960s. Others would disagree.

Edited August 26, 2012 by Teasing the Korean

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I have the Roulette album and like it a lot - it comes out of hiding a few times a year. There are a couple of nice bonus cuts on the CD from a different LP - 'Let's go Bobo' - done in 1964. As they're included in this CD, I guess that one hasn't made it to CD.

I also have 'Bobo! Do that thing/Guajira' issued on in 1963 on Tico SLP1108(and also produced by Teddy Reig). I like that, too, though perhaps not quite as much. It's a pretty short album; a few secs under half an hour. It was reissued on CD on the Vampisoul label, manufactured by Distrolux (fabulously meaningless name!) in Europe somewhere. It must have been done before 'Bobo's beat'. Roulette bought Tico and I guess transferred all the artists to Roulette. If it's expensive, you can probably let it pass.

I also have his BN LP, 'Tomorrow is here'. I think you'd probably enjoy staying away from that one. I don't mind it occasionally. He sings on most cuts and there are the usual BN 70s orchestrations.

I don't have any of the Verve albums. I've often wanted to get one or two, because they have such nice sleeves but I've never seen any cheapos.

MG

[mikeweil]

Bobo was a helluva timbale player, that's for sure - his tastes and choices as a bandleader are another matter. As a timbales soloist, he has some fantastic moments on several Cal Tjader live albums. As far as his own band is concerned, he had some great players, like conguero Victor Pantoja, and Sonny Henry's guitar was the trademark. That made the difference from most other latin bands. Whether you like it or not is a matter of taste.

[JSngry]

What I think I'm hearing from all this is that I can maybe work my way from Willie Bobo's finest hour on Verve to maybe Willie Bobo's finest 90 minutes on Verfve, or maybe even two hours. That sounds like a task I'm willing to undertake leisurely and casually. We all need hobbies, right?

Looking like there's maybe an interesting "contrast and compare" to be made with Bobo's Verve work & Mongo's Columbia work of the same time (a lot of which I'ce come across leisurely and casually, that's a good way to go about stuff like this, it seems). Mongo's stuff is more obviously "Latin", but Bobo's stuff seems a little "looser" in both conception and execution, a little more New York street-y/party-ish. I like 'em both in their own ways, but Bobo's stuff seems a little more "organic" in some ways, like he don't mind playing "Come A Little Bit Closer", he's like , whatever, let's just play, whereas Mongo's stuff has a little bit of ok, this is what we're gonna play, let's just do it and do it well, and at some point we can do something else. And yes, the guitar in Bobo's work does give it a defacto "crossover" starting point.

Like I said, though I do like them both. Especially enjoy hearing Hubert Laws playing some nastyass soul tenor with Mongo. Really enjoy that.

Edited August 26, 2012 by JSngry

[Chuck Nessa]

I always wanted to pick up this one 'cause it has a piece called Nessa. Never did it though.

[Noj]

The Talkin' Verve compilation is my favorite Bobo best of. Here's the track list:

1. Grazin' In The Grass

2. Lisa

3. Black Coffee

4. The Look Of Love

5. Dreams

6. Evil Ways

7. Night Song

8. Mercy, Mercy, Mercy

9. Roots

10. Spanish Grease

11. Shot Gun/Blind Man, Blind Man

12. Stuff

13. Night Walk

14. Fried Neckbones & Some Home Fries

15. Sham Time

[Don Brown]

Just wondering Chuck, does the name Nessa mean something like so many family names?

[Chuck Nessa]

Currently in the US it is an abbreviation of Vanessa - never could get nessa.com 'cause of some female. My name is from a farming area of Norway I am told. A fair number of Italian fans want to claim me as one of their own.

[JSngry]

What I think I'm hearing from all this is that I can maybe work my way from Willie Bobo's finest hour on Verve to maybe Willie Bobo's finest 90 minutes on Verfve, or maybe even two hours. That sounds like a task I'm willing to undertake leisurely and casually. We all need hobbies, right?

Ok, the trek begins here:

There's some really, really bad vocals on here, even by casual-but-sincere standards, but they've all got some really, really fine Don Sebesky at his most One Step Beyon Nelson Riddle-ish best, so I'll count one of them, "The Look Of Love" (a song that can get by with some bad vocals both because of the relative sparseness of the melody & because so many not-so-good singers don't get those wider intervals right anyway that I've gotten more or less conditioned to hearing it wrong as often as I do right). Add 4:16 to the Finest Hour, if only on Category 2 charm.

Also present is "Lisa", a true Category 3 tune that could almost-easily be found on a late 1960's Lee Morgan album. 6:12 more.

There's also a tenor player on here named Kenny Rogers who shows a very strong Mobley influence on a solo or two. Any chance that this is the Same Kenny Rogers who recorded with Hank on alto back in 1956? Hmmm....

As for the out-of-tune guitar, well, yeah, sometimes, not that often, though, not for me. More often than not, it puts me in Mind of Gabor Szabo's sound (and pitch) of the same era, not always A-400 perfect, but in tune within itself and the rest of the music. I'm ok with that.

Anyway...

We're up to Willie Bobo's Finest Hour and 10:28 after adding just one used CD. Perhaps not coincidentally, 21:57 of this CD was already a part of the original Finest Hour. Just need 19:32 more to make the Finest Ninety Minute mark.

Oh, btw - Freddie Waits & Chuck Rainey here, plus Victor Pantoja, Osvaldo Martinez, & John Rodriguez, Jr. (the same guy from Tipica 73?) on percussion. So...no bullshit in that stratum, none whatsoever..

Edited August 30, 2012 by JSngry

[Dave James]

I know it isn't a Verve recording, but I'm partial to the Blue Note album Bobo did with Herbie Hancock called Inventions & Dimensions. I haven't listened to it in years, but I recall a song called Mimosa that has a bit of a Ceora feel to it. I know it was a particular favorite of mine. I believe this same album was released under Bobo's name as Succotash. I'm pretty sure I have it on vinyl someplace.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Dave James

[JSngry]

Not under Bobo's name completely, but as co-leader, yes:

And if that cover gives the purists the shivers don't ask about this one...

That was how I first got that album, because that's what was in the stores at the time.

And yet, we all survived!

[Noj]

I know it isn't a Verve recording, but I'm partial to the Blue Note album Bobo did with Herbie Hancock called Inventions & Dimensions. I haven't listened to it in years, but I recall a song called Mimosa that has a bit of a Ceora feel to it. I know it was a particular favorite of mine. I believe this same album was released under Bobo's name as Succotash. I'm pretty sure I have it on vinyl someplace.

This is a favorite of mine, too.

[mikeweil]

There's also a tenor player on here named Kenny Rogers who shows a very strong Mobley influence on a solo or two. Any chance that this is the Same Kenny Rogers who recorded with Hank on alto back in 1956? Hmmm....

I'm pretty sure this is the Kenny Rogers who was a member of Frank Foster's Loud Minority when it recorded for mainstream.

Bobo recorded a lot as a jazz traps player - during his time with Cal Tjader he played whole straightahead sets, and there's a number of Blue Note sessions. He kept it simple, was very clear and right on the beat, sharp attacks, razorsharp timing.

On the Hancock he's a bit constrained. But his clarity is great.

... John Rodriguez, Jr. (the same guy from Tipica 73?) on percussion.

Yep.

Edited September 1, 2012 by mikeweil

[JSngry]

There's also a tenor player on here named Kenny Rogers who shows a very strong Mobley influence on a solo or two. Any chance that this is the Same Kenny Rogers who recorded with Hank on alto back in 1956? Hmmm....

I'm pretty sure this is the Kenny Rogers who was a member of Frank Foster's Loud Minority when it recorded for mainstream.

But would that be the same Kenny Rogers who recorded with Hank? It would be cool if it was!

... John Rodriguez, Jr. (the same guy from Tipica 73?) on percussion.

Yep.

I saw that guy, sat directly in front of the bandstand, in fact, with a Tito Puente latin-jazz group. I have never heard cowbell played with such authority in my life. All the "MORE COWBELL" jokes out there would come to a dead halt if everybody could hear it played like that. Not for the weak-willed, or faint-of-heart, or unsound-of-time.

[Cali]

Willie Bobo's Verve recordings I play the most are the aforementioned SPANISH GREASE/ UNO DOS TRES and BOBO MOTION. You can read a review of BOBO MOTION on All Music.com and also listen to some samples.

[mikeweil]

I saw that guy, sat directly in front of the bandstand, in fact, with a Tito Puente latin-jazz group. I have never heard cowbell played with such authority in my life. All the "MORE COWBELL" jokes out there would come to a dead halt if everybody could hear it played like that. Not for the weak-willed, or faint-of-heart, or unsound-of-time.

I think I saw that very same band, but he didn't play that much cowbell, or else - the circumstances were not in favor of the band, and open air gig with a rainstorm coming up and the stage not well protected - they had to stop after 50 minutes ... blame the local concert managers for not booking a concert hall for such an occurence, they could have read the weather forecast. But maybe all suitable rooms were booked in Darmstadt ....

Anway, I will push some Bobo Verve into the car CD player later on.

[Big Al]

Sounds like you're well on your way, but anything with "Shotgun/Blind Man, Blind Man" is worthy of purchase. That tune is sooo BAAAAAD! Honestly, I can play that song on a nonstop loop and never tire of it!

[JSngry]

Cheapo-bought this one:

Pretty much 1s & 2s on this one, no really strong 3s, but the 2s make the cut:

• "Ain't That Right" - an ugly girl song. I don't always like ugly girl songs, but when I do, I prefer them to be a putdown of somebody who thinks they're Miss Thing, and to have an idiomatically sympathetic tenor solo, so yeah, there it is.
• "I Don't Know" - nothing really special, just a good Latin-Soul Love Song that does what it does by being what it is and leaving ot to somebody else to worry about it.
• "Tuxedo Junction" - my god, I've had to play so many bad arrangements of this that were not fun...this one feels like fun, so, yeah, just because.
• "Show Me" - groovy Joe Tex cover, totally works because of the horn's phrasing over the rhythm. More solos and this would be a 3.
• "Black Coffee" - Same, only more so. Great tempo, great horn phrasing, KILLER groove, coulda been stretched out for the Discriminating Consumer, but oh well about that.
• "Night Walk" - makes the cut, but barely. Curiosity factor more than anything. How did a Steve Huffsteter tune get on a 1967 Willie Bobo record?

So, lessee...2:35 + 2:32 + 2:15 + 2:15 + 2:42 + 3:05 = 13:34 (it's a damn short album, that's for sure, > 30 minutes, and but only three tunes were on the original Finest Hour, including what I assume is the original version of "Evil Ways")

13:34 + 10:28 = 24:02

I now have, my my own criteria, Willie Bobo's Finest Hour and 24:02.

Gettin' there!

[DMP]

Regarding the "Shotgun/Blind Man, Blind Man" track... The 1994 Verve reissue states, "Although originally issued under this title, the music here has no distinct relationship to 'Blind Man, Blind Man'." (Other than the melody, I guess...) It goes on to say that the Verve files show "Blind Man" was recorded as a separate title at the session, but no one could find the tape. Curious.

[Noj]

This is my favorite version of Night Walk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDf_8rnkCHE