EVERYBODY -- PLEASE READ

[JSngry]

Wish I could have gone to college ten years later in life than I did, maybe twenty years later.

But then you would have gotten bit by the fusion bug!

[Aggie87]

Wish I could have gone to college ten years later in life than I did, maybe twenty years later.

I feel this way too. Think I didn't fully appreciate what I was learning, nor did I fully absorb it all.

[Larry Kart]

Wish I could have gone to college ten years later in life than I did, maybe twenty years later.

But then you would have gotten bit by the fusion bug!

No -- I meant when I was ten or twenty years older than I was when I went to college.

[JSngry]

And be the old guy on campus? I'd think that fusion would be better!

[Jazzmoose]

No, it's not the biggest deal, but in post #57 above I stated what I thought the disadvantages of duplicates threads were and what the advantages of not having duplicates threads were. So what might be the advantages of duplicate threads? I'm willing to listen.

The main advantage I see to not worrying about duplicate threads is that it encourages those not only new to the board, but those new to jazz. The boards I go to that seem to be growing, living boards don't worry about duplicate threads, and newbies seem to stick around a lot more, growing in knowledge and in contributing to the board. The boards that worry about duplicate threads and insist that newbies use the search feature, post on the appropriate thread, etc., seem to run of the noobs quickly, and soon become an "old gang" board. I agree with Tom Storer in that, in this day of facebook, bulletin boards may be up against it, but there are boards that are doing fine.

Of course, the other advantage to not worrying about duplicate threads is less work for you...

Wish I could have gone to college ten years later in life than I did, maybe twenty years later.

I did this, sort of. I flunked out my first go 'round. When I went back, it was incredible. I didn't mind being one of the older guys. The 'normal aged' students just think it's cute that old farts can struggle through the material, and don't even seem to notice that it's usually the geezers that end up at the top of the class.

Of course, wanting to learn rather than going because it was expected made a big difference; I just wasn't ready for college the first time around.

[J.A.W.]

No, it's not the biggest deal, but in post #57 above I stated what I thought the disadvantages of duplicates threads were and what the advantages of not having duplicates threads were. So what might be the advantages of duplicate threads? I'm willing to listen.

The main advantage I see to not worrying about duplicate threads is that it encourages those not only new to the board, but those new to jazz. The boards I go to that seem to be growing, living boards don't worry about duplicate threads, and newbies seem to stick around a lot more, growing in knowledge and in contributing to the board. The boards that worry about duplicate threads and insist that newbies use the search feature, post on the appropriate thread, etc., seem to run of the noobs quickly, and soon become an "old gang" board. I agree with Tom Storer in that, in this day of facebook, bulletin boards may be up against it, but there are boards that are doing fine.

Of course, the other advantage to not worrying about duplicate threads is less work for you...

As I see it duplicate threads are a nuisance when they're posted shortly after the original thread, especially when there's a discussion going on in the earlier one. The starting point here is to keep all info and opinions on a particular subject in one thread as much as possible, which makes a discussion a lot easier to follow (and take part in) than when it is fragmented between threads and it also makes it easier to do a search.

Edited September 15, 2012 by J.A.W.

[ejp626]

No, it's not the biggest deal, but in post #57 above I stated what I thought the disadvantages of duplicates threads were and what the advantages of not having duplicates threads were. So what might be the advantages of duplicate threads? I'm willing to listen.

The main advantage I see to not worrying about duplicate threads is that it encourages those not only new to the board, but those new to jazz. The boards I go to that seem to be growing, living boards don't worry about duplicate threads, and newbies seem to stick around a lot more, growing in knowledge and in contributing to the board. The boards that worry about duplicate threads and insist that newbies use the search feature, post on the appropriate thread, etc., seem to run of the noobs quickly, and soon become an "old gang" board. I agree with Tom Storer in that, in this day of facebook, bulletin boards may be up against it, but there are boards that are doing fine.

Of course, the other advantage to not worrying about duplicate threads is less work for you...

As I see it duplicate threads are a nuisance when they're posted shortly after the original thread, especially when there's a discussion going on in the earlier one. The starting point here is to keep all info and opinions on a particular subject in one thread as much as possible, which makes a discussion a lot easier to follow (and take part in) than when it is fragmented between threads and it also makes it easier to do a search.

I actually agree with both points. Active duplicate threads ought to be merged and posters should at least make a quick attempt to see if there is another thread. I usually start from the New Content screen, so it is usually pretty obvious. But I really do think there should be a moratorium on hectoring posters about using the search function, particularly if the other thread has been dormant for 6 months or more.* And more acceptance of having tangential threads on their own, so they are shorter and we don't have quite as many threads that go on for over 100 pages.

* These things do go in cycles, but at the moment the climate on the board is noticeably less open than it was a year or two ago and it does feel like a closed shop. Maybe that is a defensive reaction to the death spiral of the music industry (on the reissue front anyway) or it might be something else entirely.

[paul secor]

No, it's not the biggest deal, but in post #57 above I stated what I thought the disadvantages of duplicates threads were and what the advantages of not having duplicates threads were. So what might be the advantages of duplicate threads? I'm willing to listen.

The main advantage I see to not worrying about duplicate threads is that it encourages those not only new to the board, but those new to jazz. The boards I go to that seem to be growing, living boards don't worry about duplicate threads, and newbies seem to stick around a lot more, growing in knowledge and in contributing to the board. The boards that worry about duplicate threads and insist that newbies use the search feature, post on the appropriate thread, etc., seem to run of the noobs quickly, and soon become an "old gang" board. I agree with Tom Storer in that, in this day of facebook, bulletin boards may be up against it, but there are boards that are doing fine.

Of course, the other advantage to not worrying about duplicate threads is less work for you...

As I see it duplicate threads are a nuisance when they're posted shortly after the original thread, especially when there's a discussion going on in the earlier one. The starting point here is to keep all info and opinions on a particular subject in one thread as much as possible, which makes a discussion a lot easier to follow (and take part in) than when it is fragmented between threads and it also makes it easier to do a search.

I actually agree with both points. Active duplicate threads ought to be merged and posters should at least make a quick attempt to see if there is another thread. I usually start from the New Content screen, so it is usually pretty obvious. But I really do think there should be a moratorium on hectoring posters about using the search function, particularly if the other thread has been dormant for 6 months or more.* And more acceptance of having tangential threads on their own, so they are shorter and we don't have quite as many threads that go on for over 100 pages.

* These things do go in cycles, but at the moment the climate on the board is noticeably less open than it was a year or two ago and it does feel like a closed shop. Maybe that is a defensive reaction to the death spiral of the music industry (on the reissue front anyway) or it might be something else entirely.

Regarding "a closed shop" - is the board still closed to new registrations?

[Blue Train]

Why is anyone engaging this little shit?

He is a typical 20-something, no different than he was at any time in his entire life: he's running around screaming "look at meeeeee!" and "you people SUCK!" and we're doing just what he wants: paying attention.

I will eventually respond to the responses.

In the meantime....maybe the "moderator" can explain this particular poster (who has to be the most hostile person on here. Anger Management issues don't even come close describing his problems. He comes off as completely unhinged a good deal of the time.) is even still allowed to be a member? I have been threatened with banning, had posts deleted by the "moderator"....but someone who regularly insults and/or threatens other members for who knows how many years now is somehow still around. I guess there is a rule in the famous rules that keep being mentioned to me that makes it okay for him to do it.

The irony is his post describes him exactly....well except his insults/threats are on the elementary/junior high level. I have lost track of how many of posts I have come across which are like this....when he only responds in threads to insult and/or threaten other members.

But let's get all over those duplicate threads!

Edited September 15, 2012 by Blue Train

[cih]

I was in Crete a couple of weeks ago, and had a look around the splendid Minoan palace of Knossos - BUT - on our return to the hotel I was given the cold shoulder by the barman for not responding when he said 'Jamas' (Greek for 'cheers') - I thought he was referring to the Bob Marley record that was playing. (That's not a bad joke but a true dull story).

(re. lack of Greek)

Edited September 15, 2012 by cih

[Larry Kart]

Why is anyone engaging this little shit?

He is a typical 20-something, no different than he was at any time in his entire life: he's running around screaming "look at meeeeee!" and "you people SUCK!" and we're doing just what he wants: paying attention.

I will eventually respond to the responses.

In the meantime....maybe the "moderator" can explain this particular poster (who has to be the most hostile person on here. Anger Management issues don't even come close describing his problems. He comes off as completely unhinged a good deal of the time.) is even still allowed to be a member? I have been threatened with banning, had posts deleted by the "moderator"....but someone who regularly insults and/or threatens other members for who knows how many years now is somehow still around. I guess there is a rule in the famous rules that keep being mentioned to me that makes it okay for him to do it.

The irony is his post describes him exactly....well except his insults/threats are on the elementary/junior high level. I have lost track of how many of posts I have come across which are like this....when he only responds in threads to insult and/or threaten other members.

But let's get all over those duplicate threads!

The poster has been warned.

[Blue Train]

Why is anyone engaging this little shit?

He is a typical 20-something, no different than he was at any time in his entire life: he's running around screaming "look at meeeeee!" and "you people SUCK!" and we're doing just what he wants: paying attention.

I will eventually respond to the responses.

In the meantime....maybe the "moderator" can explain this particular poster (who has to be the most hostile person on here. Anger Management issues don't even come close describing his problems. He comes off as completely unhinged a good deal of the time.) is even still allowed to be a member? I have been threatened with banning, had posts deleted by the "moderator"....but someone who regularly insults and/or threatens other members for who knows how many years now is somehow still around. I guess there is a rule in the famous rules that keep being mentioned to me that makes it okay for him to do it.

The irony is his post describes him exactly....well except his insults/threats are on the elementary/junior high level. I have lost track of how many of posts I have come across which are like this....when he only responds in threads to insult and/or threaten other members.

But let's get all over those duplicate threads!

The poster has been warned.

I really can't tell at this point if you're being serious or attempting humor with that response to my post....and taking into account at this point I can quote countless posts that this member would have been banned pretty much every other place....WTF? knows how many years ago....it could have been from 2003 from all I know....it just got depressing after several searches with him telling people to fuck off, assholes, or wanting them dead....but here somehow he miraculously is still a member....and best I can make out....you were "moderating" for just the time I checked.

Even on "the other" board that doesn't have a "moderator"....on which I made clear there should be one (and I also said on here is a Dead BB Walking)...and it took 14-years to finally ban the "troll"....this member wouldn't have lasted.

God help anyone that starts a duplicate thread....but tell people to die, assholes, little shits, fuck off....that's all good on your watch, or get's a warning.

I was threatened with banning for just using another members job (which he used several times previously as part of his enabling argument.)....you the "moderator" even mocked me when I tried to explain why that one subject bothered me....I also had a post deleted that had 11-14+-years of post on two boards to support.

I can't even imagine what you would have done if I posted a single one of those posts this member posted that I can quote on your watch.

You want to tell me about this board's rules again?

But let's get all over those duplicate threads!

Edited September 16, 2012 by Blue Train

[papsrus]

BT, what would satisfy you?

[RDK]

No, it's not the biggest deal, but in post #57 above I stated what I thought the disadvantages of duplicates threads were and what the advantages of not having duplicates threads were. So what might be the advantages of duplicate threads? I'm willing to listen.

The main advantage I see to not worrying about duplicate threads is that it encourages those not only new to the board, but those new to jazz. The boards I go to that seem to be growing, living boards don't worry about duplicate threads, and newbies seem to stick around a lot more, growing in knowledge and in contributing to the board. The boards that worry about duplicate threads and insist that newbies use the search feature, post on the appropriate thread, etc., seem to run of the noobs quickly, and soon become an "old gang" board. I agree with Tom Storer in that, in this day of facebook, bulletin boards may be up against it, but there are boards that are doing fine.

Of course, the other advantage to not worrying about duplicate threads is less work for you...

As I see it duplicate threads are a nuisance when they're posted shortly after the original thread, especially when there's a discussion going on in the earlier one. The starting point here is to keep all info and opinions on a particular subject in one thread as much as possible, which makes a discussion a lot easier to follow (and take part in) than when it is fragmented between threads and it also makes it easier to do a search.

I agree with Hans (I think! ) in that duplicate threads are a pain when they're posted concurrently with each other - for example, duplicate RIP threads or duplicate discussions on a particular new release. But I have no problem with duplicate discussions in general, whether it's about a specific artist, label, or album. So what if we discussed "Kind of Blue" 8, 5, and 2 years before? I'd rather someone start a new thread - and a new discussion - rather than just continue the old one or have someone point out that we once talked about KOB years before. There's often a freshness one gets from new threads that you don't get when an old one is pulled up and added to.

[RDK]

Case is point as to how a resurfaced old thread might limit new discussion: I don't recall the specific topic, but there was a resurrected thread (from like 2003) that recently caught my eye and I was all prepared to add my 2 cents to it. Only when looking through the thread I realized that I had already commented (back in 2003 or so), so I refrained from adding anything more. Now what I would have said might have been idiotic anyway, so perhaps we were all lucky on that score, but it might also have turned the discussion in a different direction. Directing a newbie to an old thread might result in some unintended self-censorship if they felt that a topic had already been discussed and put to rest years ago.

[A Lark Ascending]

Seems 'simples' to me.

Like others have said, it's daft having multiple threads posted in the same sort of time period. But when a couple of years go by and a new thread appears on a topic discussed before I can't see any harm in letting it grow its own shoots. Long time contributors will probably repeat themselves (or contradict themselves) but we all do that all the time anyway.

If this was an erudite professorial forum aimed at academia then there might be a point at strict cataloguing. But as it's an informal place where we regularly shoot things off the top of our head without due reflection I don't feel the moderators should be breaking their backs trying to iron out multiple threads years apart.

Having said that, when it comes to single musicians/groups or albums, a quick check on the search engine would seem to be common sense. On a long standing jazz board it is a bit silly starting a new thread called 'What do you think of Charlie Parker?' or 'Kind of Blue' without searching first.

Edited September 16, 2012 by A Lark Ascending

[papsrus]

... If this was an erudite professorial forum aimed at academia then there might be a point at strict cataloguing. But as it's an informal place where we regularly shoot things off the top of our head without due reflection I don't feel the moderators should be breaking their backs trying to iron out multiple threads years apart. ...

If one of the purposes of eliminating duplicate threads is to reduce confusion and/or direct people efficiently to a given topic, one helpful tool is a "recommend this post" button, where members can recommend the most insightful/relevant/amusing posts in a given thread. That way, a reader can tap into a thread, scan it for the posts with the highest number of recommendations and glean the desired information directly and efficiently. You could even set up a search criteria for the most-recommended posts.

But again, this is housekeeping. As a reader, I have never fumed over duplicate threads or the elimination of them.

[Aggie87]

The duplicates that bug me are ones like "Point me toward the top 10 jazz albums". THose are the ones I usually feel a need to point a newbie to the old threads, since the suggestions in those will invariable answer the newbie's questions, and the rest of us don't have to merely repeat ourselves again.

[Larry Kart]

Why is anyone engaging this little shit?

He is a typical 20-something, no different than he was at any time in his entire life: he's running around screaming "look at meeeeee!" and "you people SUCK!" and we're doing just what he wants: paying attention.

I will eventually respond to the responses.

In the meantime....maybe the "moderator" can explain this particular poster (who has to be the most hostile person on here. Anger Management issues don't even come close describing his problems. He comes off as completely unhinged a good deal of the time.) is even still allowed to be a member? I have been threatened with banning, had posts deleted by the "moderator"....but someone who regularly insults and/or threatens other members for who knows how many years now is somehow still around. I guess there is a rule in the famous rules that keep being mentioned to me that makes it okay for him to do it.

The irony is his post describes him exactly....well except his insults/threats are on the elementary/junior high level. I have lost track of how many of posts I have come across which are like this....when he only responds in threads to insult and/or threaten other members.

But let's get all over those duplicate threads!

The poster has been warned.

I really can't tell at this point if you're being serious or attempting humor with that response to my post....and taking into account at this point I can quote countless posts that this member would have been banned pretty much every other place....WTF? knows how many years ago....it could have been from 2003 from all I know....it just got depressing after several searches with him telling people to fuck off, assholes, or wanting them dead....but here somehow he miraculously is still a member....and best I can make out....you were "moderating" for just the time I checked.

Even on "the other" board that doesn't have a "moderator"....on which I made clear there should be one (and I also said on here is a Dead BB Walking)...and it took 14-years to finally ban the "troll"....this member wouldn't have lasted.

God help anyone that starts a duplicate thread....but tell people to die, assholes, little shits, fuck off....that's all good on your watch, or get's a warning.

I was threatened with banning for just using another members job (which he used several times previously as part of his enabling argument.)....you the "moderator" even mocked me when I tried to explain why that one subject bothered me....I also had a post deleted that had 11-14+-years of post on two boards to support.

I can't even imagine what you would have done if I posted a single one of those posts this member posted that I can quote on your watch.

You want to tell me about this board's rules again?

But let's get all over those duplicate threads!

I was quite serious; that poster has been warned, by me. But it's nice (irony alert now) that you have been conducting such thorough research into the past behavior of posters whose behavior annoys you ("...at this point I can quote countless posts that [would have led to] this member being banned pretty much every other place"...). And I'm the wannabe policeman here?

P.S. You were threatened with being banned because you were behaving like a troll -- saying things that seemed IMO (and I'm not only no novice in this aspect of internet behavior, but this also was not solely my opinion in this instance) to be said not so much to make a point in an admittedly contentious discussion but essentially to provoke that particular poster (i.e. the school teacher), whom you had made clear you had gripe against from your dustups with him on another board. The trollish aspect of this would be, in case you don't already know, that if trolls can provoke someone into a bit of sufficiently angry/bad behavior, the provoked one may get punished and the troll, pleading innocence, can skate free. But onward and upward with your research.

[Jazzmoose]

The duplicates that bug me are ones like "Point me toward the top 10 jazz albums". THose are the ones I usually feel a need to point a newbie to the old threads, since the suggestions in those will invariable answer the newbie's questions, and the rest of us don't have to merely repeat ourselves again.

See, that's the kind of thinking that turns off the noobs. Just remember this one rule: You do NOT have to answer every question! Let some of the more recent members answer them if you don't want to rehash them. I never comment on "what should I buy" threads, because I'm not really into that either. I guarantee there are people out there who aren't new to jazz, but haven't been listening to it for twenty years either and would love to share their knowledge.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

As for the comments on duplicate threads, oh yeah, I agree; if a thread is still on the first page, without any search even required, it does look pretty lazy. I wasn't thinking about that kind of thing, but the expectation that a new visitor is expected to search the entire board to make sure his topic hasn't been posted before prior to posting. Plus, keep this in mind: some new people post something just to try to be 'part of the gang' rather than actually trying to find out something. Yeah, it's silly, but you can't ignore it, either.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Jazzmoose

[Jazzmoose]

I was quite serious; that poster has been warned, by me. But it's nice (irony alert now) that you have been conducting such thorough research into the past behavior of posters whose behavior annoys you ("...at this point I can quote countless posts that [would have led to] this member being banned pretty much every other place"...). And I'm the wannabe policeman here?

Seriously? Exactly how much research did it take you to figure out who he was talking about? Admittedly, Blue Train has only seen this behavior for a couple of years, while a lot of us have seen it for over a decade, but I don't think anyone who's been here two years would need that much research to figure out that this is going on, and that some people get a break for one reason or another (I can't really complain; I know I've been allowed some slack here at times). I have to admit though, that the only time I've been really bothered by any moderation activity was when a certain poster was allowed back on after being banned twice. I'm sure this will offend whoever did it, and I'm sorry, but that was a bonehead move.

[Blue Train]

Why is anyone engaging this little shit?

He is a typical 20-something, no different than he was at any time in his entire life: he's running around screaming "look at meeeeee!" and "you people SUCK!" and we're doing just what he wants: paying attention.

I will eventually respond to the responses.

In the meantime....maybe the "moderator" can explain this particular poster (who has to be the most hostile person on here. Anger Management issues don't even come close describing his problems. He comes off as completely unhinged a good deal of the time.) is even still allowed to be a member? I have been threatened with banning, had posts deleted by the "moderator"....but someone who regularly insults and/or threatens other members for who knows how many years now is somehow still around. I guess there is a rule in the famous rules that keep being mentioned to me that makes it okay for him to do it.

The irony is his post describes him exactly....well except his insults/threats are on the elementary/junior high level. I have lost track of how many of posts I have come across which are like this....when he only responds in threads to insult and/or threaten other members.

But let's get all over those duplicate threads!

The poster has been warned.

I really can't tell at this point if you're being serious or attempting humor with that response to my post....and taking into account at this point I can quote countless posts that this member would have been banned pretty much every other place....WTF? knows how many years ago....it could have been from 2003 from all I know....it just got depressing after several searches with him telling people to fuck off, assholes, or wanting them dead....but here somehow he miraculously is still a member....and best I can make out....you were "moderating" for just the time I checked.

Even on "the other" board that doesn't have a "moderator"....on which I made clear there should be one (and I also said on here is a Dead BB Walking)...and it took 14-years to finally ban the "troll"....this member wouldn't have lasted.

God help anyone that starts a duplicate thread....but tell people to die, assholes, little shits, fuck off....that's all good on your watch, or get's a warning.

I was threatened with banning for just using another members job (which he used several times previously as part of his enabling argument.)....you the "moderator" even mocked me when I tried to explain why that one subject bothered me....I also had a post deleted that had 11-14+-years of post on two boards to support.

I can't even imagine what you would have done if I posted a single one of those posts this member posted that I can quote on your watch.

You want to tell me about this board's rules again?

But let's get all over those duplicate threads!

I was quite serious; that poster has been warned, by me. But it's nice (irony alert now) that you have been conducting such thorough research into the past behavior of posters whose behavior annoys you ("...at this point I can quote countless posts that [would have led to] this member being banned pretty much every other place"...). And I'm the wannabe policeman here?

P.S. You were threatened with being banned because you were behaving like a troll -- saying things that seemed IMO (and I'm not only no novice in this aspect of internet behavior, but this also was not solely my opinion in this instance) to be said not so much to make a point in an admittedly contentious discussion but essentially to provoke that particular poster (i.e. the school teacher), whom you had made clear you had gripe against from your dustups with him on another board. The trollish aspect of this would be, in case you don't already know, that if trolls can provoke someone into a bit of sufficiently angry/bad behavior, the provoked one may get punished and the troll, pleading innocence, can skate free. But onward and upward with your research.

In one single thread I used the employment of someone who continuously brought it up as part of his argument (and you did what you did in secret (just for the record....considering this member who insults/threatens other members is somehow still around....the whole secret pm threats/warnings or whatever you want to call what you do as "moderator" doesn't work.) by pm and you then mocked me by pm when I tried to explain it to you)......but I was acting like a troll for stating the obvious question in response to this members posts (and you will notice I am not mentioning this members handle in this...even though I am sure many if not everyone knows who it involves.)....no warning before it...just threatening me with banning was your instant response.)

Someone I have never interacted with (or even noticed since I generally don't bother with the political/sports/whanot related threads on here.) in anyway enters a thread to just call me a "little shit"...and I check this member posts and I can't figure out how he's even still a member...and that I guess also makes me a troll....and WTF? know how many times he insulted/threatened other members with you as the "moderator".

I have never insulted anyone on this board. I have never threatened anyone on this board. I also made it very clear several times there is a amazing amount of knowledgeable people and knowledge on this board. I guess I was trolling by saying that as well?

I even said the owner(s) of this site had to be "Saints" for putting up with all the shit that goes on here that had to hurt them financially.

In the meantime...on your watch this particular member has insulted/threatened countless members....and he's somehow still here. Just how many times has he been "warned" by you in just the time period I checked? He's still here....WTF? how many times from the time he's been a member. He's still here.

Once again....just WTF? would have you done if I posted more than three (and I am being generous with you on the three) of his posts that I can quote on your watch?

Here you have a member that wouldn't have lasted even on JC (the place that is considered the hostile board on here.)....but he's still here and under your watch and "warnings".

How about this board's rules and duplicate threads again?

P.S. I guess I was being a troll for the reason I finally started posting on here in the first place?

Edited September 17, 2012 by Blue Train

[sonnymax]

[JSngry]

[Blue Train]

Online At Once Record 691

03 June 2012 - 03:56 AM

Even if you take away the bots/spiders/whatnot.

Dead BB Walking.