EVERYBODY -- PLEASE READ

[Larry Kart]

"Don't Go Near the Water":

From the fountains in the mountains

Comes the water running cool and clear and blue

And it comes down from the hills

And it goes down to the towns and passes through

When it gets down to the cities

Then the water turns into a dirty gray

It's poisoned and polluted

By the people as it goes along its way

http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/j/johnny_cash/dont_go_near_the_water.html

[JSngry]

Doggone it, I though you were linking to the Beach Boys song.

[JSngry]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmrFghI_NFU

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

How about this? Unauthorized or authorized?

I know a fair amount about Andrew Hill but I don't know anything about Warwick Records. Plus the reissue was done by our friends the Catalonians at Fresh Sound. So while again we can reasonably conclude that the Hill estate isn't making anything off the record, I don't know for sure whether this is authorized or not because I don't know what the specific history of this obscure label was.

Warwick records was started by Morty Craft, after he'd left MGM (where he was director of single record sales) in high dudgeon in 1959. The label was most successful for the early recordings of an instrumental group, Johnny & the Hurricanes and later 'Wheels' by the String-Alongs'. Some jazz records were made, too, produced by Fred Mendelson, of which the first was the Andrew Hill and the second was by Johnny 'Hammond' Smith. Later jazz albums appeared by Teddy Charles, Cootie Williams, Curtis Fuller and Pepper Adams/Donald Byrd. The firm went bust in '62.

Here's a link to a discography and bit of company history.

http://www.bsnpubs.com/nyc/warwick/warwick.html

MG

[Blue Train]

Since I figure I am going to end up being banned....I edited in some things since the original version.

I am sure there is some rule somewhere that is against my asking this.

While I actually understand why the actual subject at hand is an issue....the owner(s) (and at this point I think there is only one person that the original reason for this entire site is still going...and he doesn't post much from what I can make out.) and his/their families livelihood are affected by this place. Just looking in the Political discussions on this place makes him/them out to be a "Saints" for allowing it to have continued.

Having said that....

Since the "moderator" brought it up....just how many "moderators" are actually are on this board?

All I can make out at this point is there really is one judge, jury and executioner (I am sorry....what he does isn't moderating in any meaning of the word.) and he really enjoys that power....either that, or all the rest are completely incompetent, or just don't care....or don't act like something like a duplicate thread, or the other similar insignificant stuff out to be as some sort of felony.

I honestly at this point don't know if there really are any other "moderators" as he makes out in the original post in this thread.

P.S. There is a vast wealth of knowledgeable people on this site (even the "moderator" has a great deal of knowledge that he has and can pass along when it comes to the supposed main theme of this board.) but the stupidity like no duplicate threads is also why this is a Dead BB Walking. That's for those of you who really haven't noticed what is going on here....and I think there are great deal of you who actually do notice it. It's 2012!....and something as insignificant as duplicate threads are treated like a crime on here.

P.P.S. Just how many actual "newbies" have joined and continued to be considered a "regular" poster longer than a week in the last 5-years for example? This is place that is so Dead BB Walking that I am giving it a 5-year window on the over a week. How many under the age of even 40? Leaving out me, how many under even 30? How many women of any age in the last decade?

WTF? don't you just turn the entire board into a "Exclusive Secret Club"? in which the entire board is like the political forum...because you're really doing that if you do or don't know it.

And it would probably be better off for the board's owner(s) financially that way.

P.P.P.S. Just how much harm has all the stupidity that has gone on this board hurt this board's owner(s) financially?

Edited September 10, 2012 by Blue Train

[ghost of miles]

I didn't say that the people who were posting those links were doing so to intentionally violate the form rules -- rather, I think that in almost every case they were unaware of this rule in the first place or had forgotten about it.

Yes--I'm the one who included the Amazon link when I started the Sutherland thread and didn't really recall the rule or stop to consider whether or not RLR was a "legit" label... admittedly it's a very gray area with a number of these labels (and not gray at all with others), but I understand Jim's desire, for a variety of reasons, to err on the side of caution and legitimacy when it comes to such links. Truly just an oversight on my part, and the first time I can think of that I've made such a link... can't you let me off with a simple warning, officer?

[Larry Kart]

Since I figure I am going to end up being banned....I edited in some things since the original version.

I am sure there is some rule somewhere that is against my asking this.

While I actually understand why the actual subject at hand is an issue....the owner(s) (and at this point I think there is only one person that the original reason for this entire site is still going...and he doesn't post much from what I can make out.) and his/their families livelihood are affected by this place. Just looking in the Political discussions on this place makes him/them out to be a "Saints" for allowing it to have continued.

Having said that....

Since the "moderator" brought it up....just how many "moderators" are actually are on this board?

All I can make out at this point is there really is one judge, jury and executioner (I am sorry....what he does isn't moderating in any meaning of the word.) and he really enjoys that power....either that, or all the rest are completely incompetent, or just don't care....or don't act like something like a duplicate thread, or the other similar insignificant stuff out to be as some sort of felony.

I honestly at this point don't know if there really are any other "moderators" as he makes out in the original post in this thread.

P.S. There is a vast wealth of knowledgeable people on this site (even the "moderator" has a great deal of knowledge that he has and can pass along when it comes to the supposed main theme of this board.) but the stupidity like no duplicate threads is also why this is a Dead BB Walking. That's for those of you who really haven't noticed what is going on here....and I think there are great deal of you who actually do notice it. It's 2012!....and something as insignificant as duplicate threads are treated like a crime on here.

P.P.S. Just how many actual "newbies" have joined and continued to be considered a "regular" poster longer than a week in the last 5-years for example? This is place that is so Dead BB Walking that I am giving it a 5-year window on the over a week. How many under the age of even 40? Leaving out me, how many under even 30? How many women of any age in the last decade?

WTF? don't you just turn the entire board into a "Exclusive Secret Club"? in which the entire board is like the political forum...because you're really doing that if you do or don't know it.

And it would probably be better off for the board's owner(s) financially that way.

P.P.P.S. Just how much harm has all the stupidity that has gone on this board hurt this board's owner(s) financially?

There are two moderators, myself and Son-of-a-Weizen, with Jim of course waiting in the wings if needed. There used to be three moderators. I would be happy to slough off the role myself, but, and I mean no irony here, I think somebody's got to do it, and I was asked and accepted.

Why is "no duplicate threads" stupid? Not the most important things there is, but "stupid"? It helps to keep things working more efficiently, by keeping all the comments on a particular topic in one place where all who are interested can find it and, it goes without saying, see what all other interested parties have said.

[Tom Storer]

but the stupidity like no duplicate threads is also why this is a Dead BB Walking. That's for those of you who really haven't noticed what is going on here....and I think there are great deal of you who actually do notice it. It's 2012!....and something as insignificant as duplicate threads are treated like a crime on here.

P.P.S. Just how many actual "newbies" have joined and continued to be considered a "regular" poster longer than a week in the last 5-years for example? This is place that is so Dead BB Walking that I am giving it a 5-year window on the over a week. How many under the age of even 40? Leaving out me, how many under even 30? How many women of any age in the last decade?

Maybe it's because I'm so used to "the other board" that this place seems like a thriving hub of jazz discussion, rather than a "Dead BB Walking." But even if it really is as moribund as you insist, I don't think the moderating has anything to do with it. Maybe Larry can get fussy about duplicate threads, but that's no more than a minor annoyance for a small number of posters.

In general, what is killing bulletin boards is Facebook. So many people are on Facebook that it is a handy one-stop socializing point; when enough of your fellow BB members are also on Facebook, you can just hang with them there, with all your other Facebook friends also at hand. Facebook kills off trolls because they are simply de-friended when they get out of hand. As people spend more time on Facebook, they spend less time on bulletin boards. As traffic decreases on boards, they are less and less attractive to newcomers--of whom there are fewer anyway, because they are all on Facebook... A shame, really, because public bulletin boards have unique aspects that Facebook doesn't.

[jazzbo]

That's interesting Tom, and I bet there's a lot of accuracy there. I really don't like facebook, wish I hadn't joined years ago.

I don't see this place as a "dead board walking" either. I think in some ways it has lost some impetus because jazz cd reissue programs have. But there are core posters here who are here and many of us would welcome new members. But the conversations go on, they don't seem to be fading. Now if more of us actually "got a life". . . .

[J.A.W.]

I agree with Larry, Tom and Lon, and I think Tom has a point regarding Facebook - and other "social media". With Lon I wish I hadn't joined FB years ago, seeing how it handles privacy and things like that and remembering the unpleasant characters I met there before I left.

I wish the continuous moderator bashing by a few members here would stop. As I said several times before Larry does an excellent job. I know from personal experience how unpleasant things can become when you're a moderator and I admire his willingness to stay on despite all the hassle and harassment. I'm sure he's got much better things to do.

If you don't agree with some or any of the rules and/or the way they are interpreted, just take it up with Jim via PM, or leave the board altogether.

[GA Russell]

I think in some ways it has lost some impetus because jazz cd reissue programs have.

Agreed! I think we do very well under the circumstances.

[Aggie87]

In general, what is killing bulletin boards is Facebook. So many people are on Facebook that it is a handy one-stop socializing point; when enough of your fellow BB members are also on Facebook, you can just hang with them there, with all your other Facebook friends also at hand. Facebook kills off trolls because they are simply de-friended when they get out of hand. As people spend more time on Facebook, they spend less time on bulletin boards. As traffic decreases on boards, they are less and less attractive to newcomers--of whom there are fewer anyway, because they are all on Facebook... A shame, really, because public bulletin boards have unique aspects that Facebook doesn't.

For me FB and this board (or boards like this) serve two different purposes, though admittedly there is some overlap too.

FB for me is for socializing with family, current and old friends, and sharing experiences with each other, including pictures, statuses, places you're visiting etc. For instance I wouldn't have known anybody visited the Far East during some major weather issues recently, unless I were their FB friend.

Here, it's more opened ended discussion about specific topics, and these discussions last and evolve over time. I enjoy that, and being able to go back and look up old information on specific topics, whether they're jazz/music related or not. I'm not at the same place as everyone else with their musical interests and tastes, so I still feel like there's information I can learn even if it's a thread from back in 2004.

There's definitely the social aspect here too though, woven within most of the threads, and also the old (now defunct) Live Chat (Free's a dick by the way!), and there's definitely overlap between my friends here and on FB.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Aggie87

[ghost of miles]

I've spent much less time here over the past year solely because of big changes in my personal life, and I, too, use Facebook quite a lot these days. But I agree that a bulletin board like this one provides a unique venue for conversational exchanges (especially about jazz) that simply don't occur in most Facebook interaction. Not to mention the general intellect and civility of posters here; I really do hold this board and its members in high esteem and am grateful that Jim continues to maintain it. (And that Larry takes upon himself the unwelcome chore of moderating discussions, along with Weizen. Herr Weizen, it's been far too long! BTW, how's the doc doing these days? Not long ago I had a notion that he should record a punk-rock record and title it VIENNA CALLING.) Anyway, in the end it's just a cool place to spend some time chatting about jazz or what-have-you online with like-minded people. I remain quite grateful for that.

[jlhoots]

Facebook is useless for me. Guess I'm too old.

[Free For All]

(Free's a dick by the way!)

Am not. *plbbbt*

[papsrus]

Dead board walking? Couldn't be further from the truth for me.

This board and its members are invaluable to me, and have enriched my listening beyond measure. That's a fact. I could name a dozen members off the top of my head whose knowledge has had a huge impact on my listening.

As for the particular issue that this thread addresses, it's really relatively minor. Housekeeping, basically.

As for Facebook vs. bulletin boards: The depth of thought/knowledge here is far greater than anything I've experienced at Facebook, where comments seem rarely to go much beyond, "That's so cool!" Maybe a bit of an overstatement, but you have to weed through a lot of that kind of thing before you stumble across anything remotely thought-provoking. How many sunset pictures can a person look at? At least here you have the choice to enter or not enter the "Beautiful sunsets" thread, if there is such a thing.

Really, the whole stream of consciousness format at Facebook is just confusing for me, and results in a kind of fuzzy, unsatisfying experience in the end, as compared to the more straightforward threads model used here and elsewhere.

[RDK]

Well I love Facebook, but a good board is a whole 'nother animal. Yes, it's been relatively "quiet" here lately - especially with an election coming up; seriously, what's up with that guys? - but I attribute that to so few new jazz releases coming out these days... and, honestly, talking about much of the same ol' shit for going on a decade now. But this is still one of my favorite places to visit (almost) everyday.

[Shawn]

Since I started on the old BNBB and then came here, I gotta say most of what I have to say about jazz I've said already over the past 14 years give or take. That's not a reflection on the board itself, just that I'm kind of "talked out" about the subject. Very few reissues coming out and even fewer new recordings that interest me don't really create much desire for contributing very often.

Still love the company here and get enjoyment from the film and misc. music topics, so I'm happy the board is still around.

[J.A.W.]

Talking about low traffic, I occasionally visit other boards, including Jazz Corner, with far less traffic.

Edited September 11, 2012 by J.A.W.

[Blue Train]

Considering every post so far seems to be proving my point....I think this is a lost in translation thing. It's online after all.

1 I think JC is also a Dead BB Walking. And they also have/had a knowledgeable amount of people and a wealth of knowledge that has been posted on that site.

2. Where exactly did I say music isn't discussed on here? This place has half the "members" and has 300,000+ more posts. The music discussed is more pigeonholed (and don't get me wrong I love it as well), but still music is being discussed. Even if you take away all the political/sports and whatnot.

3. Did you know according to this site the most people online at one time is 691 on 03 June 2012 - 03:56 AM. I have no idea WTF? could have been so interesting at that time, but still. How many joined? How many posted? How many under even 40? How many will still be posting if they do post after a week? How many are even women?

4. This is a board made up of people that I think the next youngest to me is 25-30-years older and I am in my 20's. It's members who are my parents to Great-Grandparents age and they have been talking/arguing/insulting each other over 11+ years. There are threads which are thousands of posts long. Just how many "newbies" do you think are going to wade through all that?...and figure out why the whole duplicate thread thing is idiotic. God help if a duplicate thread might lead to people talking once again something they discussed previously (Oh, the humanity!) and maybe passing the knowledge on any "newbie" (if there ever really ever is another one) who would have never taking the time to go through the thousands of posts in the original thread.

5. Keep in mind I didn't even bring up the whole Homer Simpson response and fetish (there is no other word to describe it.) over "mastering"....at times I think the engineers/bits/formats are more important to some of you than the musicians or music. I have lost track how many times I have laughed at Mr. Nessa's comments on the subject. He just did it again today. Never mind just how much you're really hurting Jazz and new musicians when you're so occupied with reissues of things you probably bought 5-10 times already. I swear, I found in my Archeological digging a discussing about reversing polarity of the speakers to get the "right sound". That thread really might be the non-political Jump the Shark point I have found.

6. There are a great deal of younger Jazz fans, or potential ones....and you're really doing your best to make sure all this wealth of knowledge dies and/or isn't passed along.

7. Read my post(s) again and try to figure out why this place is a Dead BB Walking that might as well be completely exclusive & private....like the political forum.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Blue Train

[.:.impossible]

I normally don't get involved in this type of shit, but I'm really curious what it is exactly that bothers you so much about this community? Dead BB Walking.

“Shut the fuck up, and let me die in peace.”

Apologies to those that don't follow BB or are behind on the series.

[Matthew]

Considering every post so far seems to be proving my point....I think this is a lost in translation thing. It's online after all.

1 I think JC is also a Dead BB Walking. And they also have/had a knowledgeable amount of people and a wealth of knowledge that has been posted on that site.

2. Where exactly did I say music isn't discussed on here? This place has half the "members" and has 300,000+ more posts. The music discussed is more pigeonholed, but still music is being discussed. Even if you take away all the political/sports and whatnot.

3. Did you know according to this site the most people online at one time is 691 on 03 June 2012 - 03:56 AM. I have no idea WTF? could have been so interesting at that time, but still. How many joined? How many posted? How many under even 40? How many will still be posting if they do post after a week? How many are even women?

4. This is a board made up of people that I think the next youngest to me is 25-30-years older and I am in my 20's. It's people who are my parents to Great-Grandparents age and they have been talking/arguing/insulting each other over 11+ years. There are threads which are thousands of posts long. Just how many "newbies" do you think are going to wade through all that?...and figure out why the whole duplicate thread thing is idiotic. God help if a duplicate thread might lead to people talking once again something they discussed previously (Oh, the humanity!) and maybe passing the knowledge on any "newbie" (if there ever really ever is another one) who would have never taking the time to go through the thousands of posts in the original thread.

5. Keep in mind I didn't even bring up the whole Homer Simpson response and fetish (there is no other word to describe it.) over "mastering"....at times I think the engineers/bits/formats are more important to some of you than the musicians or music. I have lost track how many times I have laughed at Mr. Nessa's comments on the subject. He just did it again today. Never mind just how much you're really hurting Jazz and new musicians when you're so occupied with reissues of things you probably bought 5-10 times already. I swear, I found in my Archeological digging a discussing about reversing polarity of the speakers to get the "right sound". That thread really might be the non-political Jump the Shark point I have found.

6. There are a great deal of younger Jazz fans, or potential ones....and you're really doing your best to make sure all this wealth of knowledge dies and/or isn't passed along.

7. Read my post(s) again and try to figure out why this place is a Dead BB Walking that might as well be completely exclusive & private....like the political forum.

There's ansolutely no reason you should be posting about Mr. Nessa with such contempt. He really has achieved a lot in jazz.

[Blue Train]

Considering every post so far seems to be proving my point....I think this is a lost in translation thing. It's online after all.

1 I think JC is also a Dead BB Walking. And they also have/had a knowledgeable amount of people and a wealth of knowledge that has been posted on that site.

2. Where exactly did I say music isn't discussed on here? This place has half the "members" and has 300,000+ more posts. The music discussed is more pigeonholed, but still music is being discussed. Even if you take away all the political/sports and whatnot.

3. Did you know according to this site the most people online at one time is 691 on 03 June 2012 - 03:56 AM. I have no idea WTF? could have been so interesting at that time, but still. How many joined? How many posted? How many under even 40? How many will still be posting if they do post after a week? How many are even women?

4. This is a board made up of people that I think the next youngest to me is 25-30-years older and I am in my 20's. It's people who are my parents to Great-Grandparents age and they have been talking/arguing/insulting each other over 11+ years. There are threads which are thousands of posts long. Just how many "newbies" do you think are going to wade through all that?...and figure out why the whole duplicate thread thing is idiotic. God help if a duplicate thread might lead to people talking once again something they discussed previously (Oh, the humanity!) and maybe passing the knowledge on any "newbie" (if there ever really ever is another one) who would have never taking the time to go through the thousands of posts in the original thread.

5. Keep in mind I didn't even bring up the whole Homer Simpson response and fetish (there is no other word to describe it.) over "mastering"....at times I think the engineers/bits/formats are more important to some of you than the musicians or music. I have lost track how many times I have laughed at Mr. Nessa's comments on the subject. He just did it again today. Never mind just how much you're really hurting Jazz and new musicians when you're so occupied with reissues of things you probably bought 5-10 times already. I swear, I found in my Archeological digging a discussing about reversing polarity of the speakers to get the "right sound". That thread really might be the non-political Jump the Shark point I have found.

6. There are a great deal of younger Jazz fans, or potential ones....and you're really doing your best to make sure all this wealth of knowledge dies and/or isn't passed along.

7. Read my post(s) again and try to figure out why this place is a Dead BB Walking that might as well be completely exclusive & private....like the political forum.

There's ansolutely no reason you should be posting about Mr. Nessa with such contempt. He really has achieved a lot in jazz.

By pointing out Mr. Nessa constantly mocks/shows contempt to the whole fetish I am talking about over "mastering"....I am showing Mr. Nessa contempt? Out of curiosity....by my calling him Mr. Nessa....was I also showing him contempt?

Edited September 11, 2012 by Blue Train

[RDK]

I don't get your apparent animosity. If you're tiring of us, simply leave. If no topics meet your criteria for being interesting or youthful enough, start a new one. This thread was all about us not linking to bootleg recordings - a reasonable enough request even if one thinks it unnecessary.

[fasstrack]

In general, what is killing bulletin boards is Facebook. So many people are on Facebook that it is a handy one-stop socializing point; when enough of your fellow BB members are also on Facebook, you can just hang with them there, with all your other Facebook friends also at hand. Facebook kills off trolls because they are simply de-friended when they get out of hand. As people spend more time on Facebook, they spend less time on bulletin boards. As traffic decreases on boards, they are less and less attractive to newcomers--of whom there are fewer anyway, because they are all on Facebook. public

Facebook: ugh. A grazing field for sheep. The same sheep that have white earbuds in their brainless heads b/c Steue Jobs conned them think they they'll be pariahs if they're not on FB. I have FRIENDS-don't need 'friends'. When is the world going to wake up and see how FAKE this BS is?