J.A.W. Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 I don't see much fighting here at Organissimo, unlike other Forums I have used. There's been a lot of fighting here.You didn't join until November 2012, so you missed most of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Well, arguing about a Kenny Burrell takes a special personality to take the 'anti' side. Clem/Moms/Brian are just that sort of personality. Can't say that I miss them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertoart Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 I don't see much fighting here at Organissimo, unlike other Forums I have used. It's odd to think there would be a fight over Burrell. He might not be everyone's cup of tea, but he is not the kind of musician who would spark controversy. No it wasn't a fight, it was just two different opinions, they were interesting opinions too, that's why I remember it. If it isn't linked..... it was basically "Clem" playing the 'devils advocate' and saying Kenny Burrell's Lps were basically 'professionally played and too tasteful for their own good, not dynamic or vital enough - that kind of argument if I remember correctly. jsngry (who appears to have a 'very informed' knowledge of Burrell's discography , responded that Burrell was the kind of player that represented everything Grant Green was hyped up to be - but wasn't. And that if (like Burrell), you weren't 'a drug user' in those days, then you had to have something special to 'be part of the musical landscape of the time'. Of course the arguments were more 'nuanced' and the poetics more 'developed'' than that, but that was the gist of it. I can see merit in both opinions, and have thought them myself over the years, but personally I can't live without Kenny Burrell's music for too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Burrell also has had a deep impact on me, because along with George Benson, he was the first guitarist I ever heard. Kenny's tone and taste are so wonderful and he's one of the greatest guitar players with organists I think. I suppose if you are into the Sco's, Frisell's, Rosenwinkel's and Ben Monder's of the world KB is boring, but he really has an instantly identifiable stamp on anything he's on. All the JOS stuff is my favorite, as is "All Day Long", "Blue Lights" and "At the Five Spot". I've been meaning to check out his last few, but Spotify doesn't have High Note releases, and I use Spotify for a test run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Also wondering - with what label/producer did KB's leader dates of the 1960s have greater "popular" success, Argo/Chess or Verve? Kenny had 3 hit albums: Tender gender - Cadet 772 - made #146 on the pop LP chart, lasted 2 weeks. Also made #21 on the R&B chart and lasted 8 weeks - Dec 66-Feb '67 Have yourself a soulful little Christmas - Cadet 779 - made the Christmas album chart in 1966, getting to #15 and lasting 8 weeks. Blues the common ground - Verve 8746 - got ot 191 on the pop LP chart akd lasted 2 weeks. Aug '68. Midnight blue - bugger all Up the street, round the corner, down the block - my favourite KB - also bugger all. Another good live album Kenny did at the Vanguard (as well as the Argo and Muse sessions) was Midnight at the Village Vanguard - Paddle Wheel (also issued on Evidence (US) & Bellaphon (EU)) Tracks: 1. Introduction 2. Bemsha Swing 3. Little Sunflower 4. Cup Bearers 5. Ruby, My Dear 6. Cotton Tail 7. My One and Only Love 8. Come Sunday/David Danced 9. Parker's Mood 10. Do What You Gotta Do 11. Kenny's Theme Recorded at The'Village Vanguard', NYC, on August 26 & 27, 1993. Guitar - Kenny Burrell Piano - James Williams Bass - Peter Washington Drums - Sherman Ferguson MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertoart Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 That's why I see copies of Tender Gender on ebay all the time and very cheap. Any idea why was that one, above all the others was such a big seller MG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertoart Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Burrell also has had a deep impact on me, because along with George Benson, he was the first guitarist I ever heard. Kenny's tone and taste are so wonderful and he's one of the greatest guitar players with organists I think. I suppose if you are into the Sco's, Frisell's, Rosenwinkel's and Ben Monder's of the world KB is boring, but he really has an instantly identifiable stamp on anything he's on. All the JOS stuff is my favorite, as is "All Day Long", "Blue Lights" and "At the Five Spot". I've been meaning to check out his last few, but Spotify doesn't have High Note releases, and I use Spotify for a test run. I haven't heard the recent ones. I would like to hear them even for the fact to hear one of the last of the greats play at such an advanced age. A couple of years ago there was a streaming audio of a Birthday celebration for KB, it seemed like it was in a small club or even a house. I paid the small amount of money to have access to the concert, but the video stream was too strong for the broadband link here, and I missed out on seeing it. Apart from the chance to see such a special event, I was very interested in seeing KB approach his instrument in his 'twilight,' so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 That's why I see copies of Tender Gender on ebay all the time and very cheap. Any idea why was that one, above all the others was such a big seller MG? Haven't heard it. Kenny was big in the ghetto, in those days. And the Christmas album may have given it a bit of a push. A few years ago, Jim got me a CD of a radio programme by Sonny Hopson - The Mighty Burner - a DJ at WHAT Philly = a mainly R&B/Soul programme from '67 or '68 and there's Kenny doing a beer commercial in the middle. THAT is street credibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertoart Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 That's why I see copies of Tender Gender on ebay all the time and very cheap. Any idea why was that one, above all the others was such a big seller MG? Haven't heard it. Kenny was big in the ghetto, in those days. And the Christmas album may have given it a bit of a push. A few years ago, Jim got me a CD of a radio programme by Sonny Hopson - The Mighty Burner - a DJ at WHAT Philly = a mainly R&B/Soul programme from '67 or '68 and there's Kenny doing a beer commercial in the middle. THAT is street credibility. I bet he didn't mention that in his Guitar Player Magazine cover story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Not just a beer commercial - A Schlitz Malt Liquor commercial! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Not just a beer commercial - A Schlitz Malt Liquor commercial! Sorry, I'm a heathen Brit MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milestones Posted February 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Maybe we can turn this in another direction? What guitarists show Burrell's influence? Which contain elements of his style and approach? I followed Mark Whitfield in his Verve heyday. I see some similarities. Of course, many regarded him as too conservative and retro. Let me be clear (for what it's worth) that I'm also a big fan of more modern guitar like Frisell, Metheny, and Scofield. Bear in mind, they are no longer young musicians--haven't been for quite awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Glad to hear another Night Song fan. I have the original Verve White label pressing of this. It sounds even better on vinyl. In fact did this session ever get a CD release? I've posted here (and elsewhere) about Night Song many times, and about KB's guitars. The '56 D'A New Yorker that he was using in that period sounded like heaven in his hands. I'd say the same about his L5 with the CC pickup that he used a few years earlier, but it's a different heavenly sound. To my ears, Burrell with those two guitars was the pinnacle of guitar tone in jazz. He sounded great on Super 400's too, but the 18" D'A produced a more tight and balanced sound overall. It's weird that you had a white label copy of Night Song. I did too, although I sold it when I got the recording on CD. It was issued on a Japanese ("55 Records") mini-LP in 2004. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgcim Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Maybe we can turn this in another direction? What guitarists show Burrell's influence? Which contain elements of his style and approach? I followed Mark Whitfield in his Verve heyday. I see some similarities. Of course, many regarded him as too conservative and retro. Let me be clear (for what it's worth) that I'm also a big fan of more modern guitar like Frisell, Metheny, and Scofield. Bear in mind, they are no longer young musicians--haven't been for quite awhile. Metheny is practically all KB when he plays off of min7th chords on all his jazz/latin tunes. I'm sure the other two would admit a serious KB influence, but I'm not a fan of either of them, so I couldn't point out any specifics. KB strongly influenced rockers of the 60s like Hendrix, Coryell and Jorma Koukenen. Hendrix says to the organist on one of his "mellow" Woodstock jams, "Now you make like Jimmy Smith, and I'll make like Kenny Burrell..." I remember reading an interview with Jorma in Rolling Stone where he said he saw KB in Sweden, and Kenny was doing somersaults(!) on the stand while he was playing at some club. Any jazz guitarist of the 70s and beyond that has any blues influence in their playing most likely got it from KB. Did I mention that KB also sang like Billy E in the 50s? To his credit, he never did a girly-man version of "The Greatest Love", or any disco, but here he is evoking Betty Roche on "Take a Train" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Did I mention that KB also sang like Billy E in the 50s? Not sure I get the "in the 50's" part, but yeah, KB sang, and sings. Got "Weaver Of Dreams"? Very solid, to my ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Almost forgot... no KB thread would be complete without this recommendation, not only because it's great, but because it's off the beaten Prestige/Blue Note/Verve/Muse/Concord track: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Yeah, that makes sense with the Metheny/KB connection sgcim, and when Pat plays chordal solos or unaccompanied intros I hear Burrell too. "Night in Tunisia" off "75th Birthday Bash Live!" is a nice throwback to the BN/Prestige blowing dates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgcim Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Did I mention that KB also sang like Billy E in the 50s? Not sure I get the "in the 50's" part, but yeah, KB sang, and sings. Got "Weaver Of Dreams"? Very solid, to my ears. Maybe it wasn't in the 50s when he made that largely vocal LP(early 60s?), but he sang in a straight, Billy E. style back then, and his more recent vocal things are much looser, with some "beboppin' and scattin'"like the one I posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 Did I mention that KB also sang like Billy E in the 50s? Not sure I get the "in the 50's" part, but yeah, KB sang, and sings. Got "Weaver Of Dreams"? Very solid, to my ears. Maybe it wasn't in the 50s when he made that largely vocal LP(early 60s?), but he sang in a straight, Billy E. style back then, and his more recent vocal things are much looser, with some "beboppin' and scattin'"like the one I posted. Yeah, that's an interesting subject. I don't know if he's really changed that much, or if it's more a matter of settings. In other words, what the producer at Columbia (or Kenny himself) wanted for the Weaver Of Dreams session in 1961 may have precluded a more loose approach (or a tune or two with a loose approach) from happening at that time. Despite the complete vocal album, I get the impression that he's never sung a lot at his gigs. Maybe his singing has evolved, but it's hard to really know. He sang one tune ("I'm Just A Lucky So And So") on the interview session for Piano Jazz with Marian McPartland in 1993, but in the converstation, they didn't get into any detail about his past vocal exploits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Friedman Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 Kind of funny that we have a thread today about milt Jackson's vocals, and now the Kenny Burrell thread is discussing his vocal album. There are many musicians whose vocals I definitely like - Dizzy, Roy Eldridge, Kenny Dorham, Jack Sheldon, Warren Vache, Wycliffe Gordon, Byron Stripling, Dexter Gordon and Jimmy Rowles to mention just a few. I just posted on another thread that I did not care at all for Bags singing, and I feel the same way about the vocals of Kenny Burrell. Perhaps one song by Kenny in a club would be ok, but an entire album of his vocals is not at all something I want to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 Kind of funny that we have a thread today about milt Jackson's vocals, and now the Kenny Burrell thread is discussing his vocal album. There are many musicians whose vocals I definitely like - Dizzy, Roy Eldridge, Kenny Dorham, Jack Sheldon, Warren Vache, Wycliffe Gordon, Byron Stripling, Dexter Gordon and Jimmy Rowles to mention just a few. I just posted on another thread that I did not care at all for Bags singing, and I feel the same way about the vocals of Kenny Burrell. Perhaps one song by Kenny in a club would be ok, but an entire album of his vocals is not at all something I want to hear. Tastes in vocals are a very subjective thing, as we all know. I feel differently about KB's vocals, and would rank him above some of the other artists you just mentioned as a vocalist, not only in terms of my personal preference for his voice, but for my impression of his skills as a vocalist. Dexter, for example, pales in comparison, to my ears. I might add that the aforementioned 1993 vocal really hit me as highly skillful and polished when I listened to it today. He sounded like a full fledged singer on that, not just a guitarist who sings occasionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertoart Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Any recommendations for Kenny Burrell Organ sessions (as leader or sideman) with anyone other than Jimmy Smith? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 The previously mentioned Stanley Turrnetine date Hustlin' (w/Shirley Scott) is about as good as it gets for guitar/organ hookups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Any recommendations for Kenny Burrell Organ sessions (as leader or sideman) with anyone other than Jimmy Smith? I like the Shirley Scott album "Travelin' Light" on Prestige (released on a twofer CD called "Soul Sister"). With Jack McDuff, I would strongly recommend: and Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 I was just about to recommend the very same sessions with Scott and McDuff ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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