The electric piano

[Kalo]

I've always had a higher tolerance for electric piano in popular music rather than jazz.

All time favorite: Ray Charles -- What'd I Say.

Centrifugal r&b!

OH YEAH...

HEY HEY...

ALL RIGHT...

MAKES YOU FEEL SO GOOD....

BABY SHAKE THAT THING!

Edited September 1, 2005 by Kalo

[Jim Alfredson]

Well, I use a Yamaha EX7 that I bought specifically because the Rhodes and Wurlitzer electric piano sounds were so good. So... its supposed to sound like a real Rhodes or Wurlitzer. I think it does a good job.

I actually used that synth in the studio with Root Doctor for Wurli parts, thinking I would later overdub a real Wurlitzer (the studio has a really nice one, like my old one... ) but it sounded so good we decided to just keep the synth tracks.

The Nord Electro has some pretty amazing electric piano sounds, but that's all it does is organ, electric piano, and piano. I don't need the organ sounds and $1700 is a little too much to pay for what my $400 Yamaha (I bought it used... originally retailed for $1500) can do.

[clifford_thornton]

Funny, right now I'm listening to a new Pandelis Karayorgis disc on which he plays Fender Rhodes (trio w/ Nate McBride and Curt Newton on Clean Feed) and it's absolutely great. I've become more and more accepting of the el-p in the past few years, and this particular album is great. Rather free interpretations of Monk, Dolphy and Hasaan.

In response to an ancient mention of Burton Greene's electric piano, he does play it on Celesphere, a duo with Maarten Altena on Futura Records from '71 or so. It's a great record, and I like Burton's approach to the instrument.

[clifford_thornton]

I used the word 'great' three times in that last post. It's late, otherwise I woulda thought of better verbiage.

[Peter Friedman]

I greatly dislike the electic piano. Many Many recordings from the 70's were , in my opinion, seriously spoiled by the electric piano. This is especially true when played by masters of the acoustic piano such as Cedar Walton, and Kenny Barron to name just a few.

The more recent electric pianos do though have a much better sound than those from the 70's. It seems as if there have been efforts to try to make them sound closer to the sound of an acoustic instrument.

I can understand using an electric piano on a gig when there is no acoustic piano available. But whenever an acoutic piano (in decent condition) is available I would strongly opt for that instrument being played.

I also don't care for the electric bass, saxophone or trumpet

For some reason, I make an exception for the guitar.

[Guy Berger]

I greatly dislike the electic piano. Many Many recordings from the 70's were , in my opinion, seriously spoiled by the electric piano. This is especially true when played by masters of the acoustic piano such as Cedar Walton, and Kenny Barron to name just a few.

I think Jsngry's response upthread encapsulates my feeling about ep's. As substitutes for an acoustic piano, they suck. (And unfortunately, such substitutions were trendy in the early 70s.) As instruments in their own right, they're great. Herbie Hancock, Joe Zawinul and Chick Corea all made amazing recordings on the electric piano, and it's hard to imagine classic albums like Bitches Brew, Mwandishi and Return to Forever (to pick only three -- there are many, many more) without that sound.

Guy

[Michael Fitzgerald]

To respond to Peter Friedman:

I agree, to a point (and support the view that Guy presents).

But there are numerous instances in Kenny Barron's use of the electric piano where he is NOT substituting it for an acoustic piano. I am thinking particularly about his Muse records and his album "Innocence." The electric piano is a color that is *different* from the acoustic piano and the pieces on which he uses this color were specifically intended to have that.

At this point, electric pianos are no longer produced and haven't been for perhaps 2 decades. Electronic instruments have replaced them and anything that sounds "closer to the sound of an acoustic instrument" is most likely using digital sampling technology. The other technology being used is software modeling - which isn't being used so much for acoustic piano imitations as it is for electric piano imitations.

Mike

[mikeweil]

My all time favourite Rhodes playing is on Herbie Hancock's three Warner Bros. albums.

[tjobbe]

Electric Piano and Return to forever is one and the same to me....

the rest, mmmmh not sure if must like the sound, although I just got one record of the guy in my Avatar

where Vince Guaraldi plays ePiano only... not quite the standard of other recordings but an intersting sounding record.

Cheers, Tjobbe

[Guest akanalog]

yeah kenny barron was a master at the e-piano on those muses.

someone should take all the e-piano tracks from those albums and release them (all the albums were so damn hodge podge-with like two electric tracks, two acoustic tracks, a duet and a solo.)

i am a big big fan of the e-piano and all synths.

i play a microkorg and a korg prophecy in my band. the microkorg has really crappy organ sounds which people always want me to use but my feeling on playing organ is unless you know what you are doing, stay away. it's sacrilege.

george cables did some good stuff on woody shaw's "song of songs" really ring modulating the shit out of the rhodes.

i like larry willis a lot on electric piano too-i have never heard his bsw stuff, but on his groove merchant album and on a side with joe henderson he gets it going.

one organ sound i REALLY like is the yamaha organ sound which miles used in the mid 70s. very fake and buzzy and thin.

i just got a great kohsuke mine albm called "solid" where mikio masuda gets the sound down perfectly. they even do what sounds like a "right off" jam-though more in the 1972 version vein than the original.

[Guest akanalog]

for our brit friends-i notice that british jazz albums from the 60s and 70s have a nasty e-piano sound. this was the why cant i remember as opposed to the rhodes. why was this popular in england and do you like the sound? to me it sounds plinky and electronic without the warmth of a rhodes. i was up all night so i guess that' s why i cant remember what this piano is called. oh yeah-hohner. seems like the brits used the hohne electra. i mean i love the hohner clavinet sound but not so much their e-piano.

[mikeweil]

for our brit friends-i notice that british jazz albums from the 60s and 70s have a nasty e-piano sound.  this was the why cant i remember as opposed to the rhodes.  why was this popular in england and do you like the sound?  to me it sounds plinky and electronic without the warmth of a rhodes.  i was up all night so i guess that' s why i cant remember what this piano is called.  oh yeah-hohner.  seems like the brits used the hohner electra.  i mean i love the hohner clavinet sound but not so much their e-piano.

←

Gordon Beck played a Hohner Electra piano, and I found it sounded very nice with him. There is an interesting Nucleus record with Beck pure Electra sound opposite Dave McRae playing a Rhodes with fuzz and wah-wah pedals - great stuff.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

I suspect an availabilty/price consideration. Hohner was from Germany and probably easier and cheaper to get in UK at that time. More compact than a Rhodes too.

Mike

[Peter Friedman]

To each his own.

I don't care for the Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea, Joe Zawinul recordings where the electric piano is used (with only a few rare exceptions). All of these guys are fine musicians, and i very much like their acoustic playing.

If you enjoy those things that's fine with me, but they are just not to my personal taste.

Edited September 2, 2005 by Peter Friedman

[Michael Fitzgerald]

But my point is that there is music that uses electric instruments that would not all of a sudden be palatable to you if the electric piano were replaced by an acoustic piano.

For example, there's a live show of Miles Davis where Chick Corea's electric piano is broken and he plays the Bitches Brew repertoire on acoustic piano. I doubt that it would suddenly be fine for you. Because it's more than just the instrument that makes that music quite different from earlier Miles Davis.

Of course, there *are* sessions where instant replacement would be an improvement. The Art Blakey sessions on Prestige, for example.

Mike

[AllenLowe]

another digression, but just thought you might find this interesting - I got to know Bill Evans's wife pretty well in the late 1970s, and when he died she offered to sell me his Rhodes for something like $1,000, which I did not have at the time - it's killing me now that I didn't grab it, for both value and sentiment - and as a matter of fact, somewhere in a box is a photo my wife took of me playing that piano - which Evans, by the way, hated -

[Michael Fitzgerald]

I'm kind of surprised that Evans hated it, considering how much he used it during the 1970s. But if he didn't like it, why then? At Columbia, I understand, but when he moved to Fantasy I would have thought he'd have had the clout to avoid doing what he didn't like.

Evans is horrible at Rhodes. There's a prime example of someone whose albums could have been vastly improved by sticking with acoustic piano. Perhaps he felt an obligation to experiment, to try it for a time, at least.

Mike

[Rosco]

Evans always sounded curiously anonymous playing electric. Herbie, Chick and Zawinul are all examples of musicians who retained- developed in fact- a 'voice' with the electric instrument quite distinct from the acoustic.

One of my electric piano faves not mentioned so far is Herbie's playing on Joe Farrell's Moon Germs album. Don't be put off by it being a CTI album, it's a doozy, very much an extension of what Farrell (and Stanley Clarke) had been doing with RTF.

[AllenLowe]

I had a few conversations with him but he never got into much detail on it - I think it may have been post-mortem regret - a sense, like you have, that he did not sound very good on it -

[jazzbo]

Yes, I think that anonymity of Evans electric piano signature comes from his touch.

The Rhodes and the Wurly from my experience really need prodding to get a response that would be signature-generating. A harder hitting, more percussive touch yields more identifiable "signatures."

I love those keyboards. I wish I still had my old Wurlitzer!

Edited September 2, 2005 by jazzbo

[JSngry]

Evans' tendency to play on top of the beat (or rush, depending on how you hear it) was accentuated on the Rhodes, imo. It weren't a pretty sight, so to speak...

[jazzbo]

Nice point.

[AllenLowe]

thank you -

[mikeweil]

One of my electric piano faves not mentioned so far is Herbie's playing on Joe Farrell's Moon Germs album. Don't be put off by it being a CTI album, it's a doozy, very much an extension of what Farrell (and Stanley Clarke) had been doing with RTF.

←

That's a good one! Same goes for Farrell's Outback with Corea. Did they even play the same instrument in RVG's studio?

Those Farrell albums on CTI are all good but pretty neglected as far as CD reissues are concerned.

Edited September 3, 2005 by mikeweil

[Guest akanalog]

yeah as far as the farrell albums, though it is piano-less on most tunes (herbie is on a few), "upon this rock" is pretty cool too. has a classic drum break by jimmy madison.

also-mike w.-you are TOTALLY right. the nucleus album "labyrinth" is the one you were talking about with gordon beck and dave macrae on dueling e-pianos with beck on the hohner and macrae on the rhodes. it's definitely pretty cool. i was going to AOW week that album. i would say john taylor gets the most plinky hohner sound though as i think about it. perhaps i shouldn't have said dueling as beck and macrae don't do a jarrett vs. corea electric blowout like on miles at the fillmore. it is more complimentary. but nonetheless, a good place to hear how different the e-pianos sound.