Grasella Oliphant, "Grass is Greener"

[connoisseur series500]

I know others have mentioned this session before. I recently got a burn from B-3er and have been listening to it. They play at least three tunes from "Got a Good thing Goin'" but this is later (1968) work.

The horns sound a bit ordinary. Grant is long past his prime and is pretty much reduced to playing cliches; although, Grant Green cliches are often better than most other guitarists! He comes alive a little for "Cantaloupe Woman," but it's clear and sad to see how the great man had declined.

It's Big John Patton who burns. This is Patton in his prime. He burns and rescues this date bigtime.

I'd rate it as a good 4-star (out of 5) soul-jazz album. No better, but also no worse.

[undergroundagent]

This album burns, PERIOD!

Classic soul-jazz, and very difficult to find in any format. It's really too bad that Oliphant didn't record more...he fits nicely in with Green & Patton ala Ben Dixon.

I have the Japanese Atlantic issue. It's worth the find if you can locate it. I personally love this album!

[andybleaden]

I have the same japanese edition and it is excellent.l I also had the other Grassella title from the same era on LP when I had those things and that was a really nice surprise.

I would like to find the other title eventually if it ever comes but they were both nice

The sound certainly cleaned up with the cd for the grass is greener

[andybleaden]

this is the other title for those that do not have that either. It is a lovely Grant Green John Patton type set

[Dan Gould]

Both albums are highly recommended; I don't think Grant was running on empty, either.

[JSngry]

Works for me too!

Anybody ever heard Oliphant's Prestige side? I'm wondering how it compares to the Atlantics.

[brownie]

'Grass Roots' is a straight-forward jazz date. And a very good one! A rare occasion to enjoy the sadly under-recorded Harold Ousley! And with nice early Bobby Hutcherson to boot!

Not aware that Grassella Oliphant recorded for Prestige under his name.

[JSngry]

Maybe I'm having a brain fart, but I remember seeing one with a solid black strip about 1/4 way across the top with his name and that of the album, and then a photo underneath. also seems like he went by his full name, Grasella XXXXXX Oliphant, or some such.

Maybe I'm wrong...

[connoisseur series500]

Both albums are highly recommended; I don't think Grant was running on empty, either.

I did give it another listen today and have revised my opinion somewhat. Green plays a bit more than mere cliches, but it's still not vintage Grant Green playing.

Actually, the hornmen aren't bad either.

But again, Big John takes it to another level!

I still rate it 4 stars. No better than that, but not a bad rating.

[Dan Gould]

Maybe I'm having a brain fart, but I remember seeing one with a solid black strip about 1/4 way across the top with his name and that of the album, and then a photo underneath. also seems like he went by his full name, Grasella XXXXXX Oliphant, or some such.

Maybe I'm wrong...

According to AMG, you're wrong.

But then again, on Saturday I could go to the source and ask the owner of Prestige if his company gave Oliphant a leader date. B)

[JSngry]

Yeah, I know AMG doesn't list it, but that's not conclusive evidence by a long shot. Ask Michael Howell. I think I saw it on Dusty Groove once, or someplace.

Maybe it was some other label and it just LOOKED like a Prestige side, same layout, same fonts, etc. But I'm pretty sure there's another Grasella Oliphant album besides the two Atlantics.

Couldn't fine any mention of it online, but I did find this:

http://www.libertyellman.com/dates.html

Looks like the cat's got a weekly gig in Jersey, w/Harold Ousley on board, no less!

[danasgoodstuff]

I was thrilled when I found an import of this a few years ago, and nearly as thrilled when I finally heard it...but I haven't played it much since then. I think that pretty much sums it up.

[andybleaden]

I remember this one on prestige which had him on on Prestige which was Shirley Scott's The Soul is Willing PR 7845 to be excat ( spot the sado)

PR 7845 The Soul Is Willing / Shirley Scott

Stanley Turrentine (ts) Shirley Scott (org) Major Holley (B) Grassella Oliphant (d)

VGS, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, January 10, 1963

The Soul Is Willing

Stolen Sweets

Yes Indeed

Secret Love

Remember

I Feel All Right

Tada

Cannot yet find anything else

Andy

[bertrand]

The two Oliphant Atlantics are out as a Collectibles two-fer.

Anyone heard this? Are all the tracks present and unedited? Is it remastered from vinyl?

Thanks,

Bertrand.

P.S.

jazzdisco.org claims both Grass Is Greener and Braith's Laughing Soul are from 3/1/66. Can anyone confirm/infirm?

[jazzbo]

The Collectables as far as I can tell in comparison to the vinyls I have is complete, unedited. Sound's pretty damned good too.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

The Collectables as far as I can tell in comparison to the vinyls I have is complete, unedited. Sound's pretty damned good too.

Jazzbo, the sound of "Grass is greener" differs a lot between the trio and the sextet tracks, even on the Japanese CD issue. Is that still the case on the new Collectables CD?

MG

[jazzbo]

Well, I'm far from home for a week or so and can't refresh myself with this.

I didn't have the greatest sounding vinyl of these, and the cd sounds better than a lot of Collectables do, that I can say for certain. I can't answer that question of yours specifically though at this time.

[Rooster_Ties]

I just got the Collectables version of these two dates in the mail (from The Bastards™), and am really diggin' both dates. And it's one of the better Collectables issues I've ever heard.

Funny, three tunes from the Oliphant date with Green and Patton also show up on Patton's Got a Good Thing Goin' -- two originals "The Yodel" and "Soul Woman" (supposedly co-authored by Green and Patton, cited as such on both the BN date, and the Atlantic), along with "Ain't That Peculiar".

Which date was recorded first?? I would maybe guess the BN date (29-Apr-1966), but the Collectables issue just says "released in 1967" - with no recording date listed.

Funny how more than half of that BN date (3 out of 5 tunes) appeared on two different albums, all within the same year.

Edited April 19, 2006 by Rooster_Ties

[Stereojack]

Which date was recorded first?? I would maybe guess the BN date (29-Apr-1966), but the Collectables issue just says "released in 1967" - with no recording date listed.

The Oliphant was recorded March 1, 1966.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

1 March 1966, a few weeks before "Got a good thing goin'" (29 April 1966). There's some discussion of this on the thread dealing with George Braith's "Laughing soul", which was also recorded on the same day:

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...topic=20021&hl=

I've always had the feeling that the Oliphant set was used by Patton & Green as a kind of try out before the BN date. Not that Atlantic reps would have approved, of course. But I don't know whether they would have had the second date set when they did the first.

Still a good record, though. (Both of them on the CD.)

MG

[bertrand]

I brought up the issue of the recording date in both threads last night, just to make sure someone noticed!

Rooster,

The copyright deposits for 'The Yodel' and 'Soul Woman' also credit Green and Patton jointly. Next time I'm at LC, I'll compare the lead sheets for these and other Green and Patton copyrights to see who might have actually written them out.

Lon,

Thanks for the recommendation. I have a burn of these discs and like them a lot; I'll add the Collectibles to my wish list.

Bertrand.

[bertrand]

OK, I picked up the Oliphant two-fer cheap from oldies.com: $6 + Vitous for $4 (with a missing tune, I know, but only 4 bucks) and $4 shipping - pretty good deal.

Here's a weird question, though: on the burn I have of Grass Is Greener, 'The Yodel' is 7:08 (although it says 6:35 on the cover and on the cover reproduced in a post earlier in this thread). On the Collectables CD, the tune is indeed 6:35.

I compared them: on my burn, the opening head is played twice, whereas it is only played once on the CD. This adds the missing 30 seconds. Hence, I would assume it was an (unmentioned) edit on the CD

BUT, why does the record jacket say the tune is 6:35? Could some pressings of the vinyl have been edited, and others not? For those of you with the vinyl, or the Japanese pressing, how long is 'The Yodel' on your copy? Do they play the opening head once or twice?

Very curious. I wonnder if there was an imperceptible hiccup when my friend burned the CD for me which resulted in the head being played twice. Stranger things have happened.

Bertrand.

Edited May 7, 2006 by bertrand

[bertrand]

P.S.

To stave off any 'who gives a fuck - just enjoy the fucking music' type replies (you know who you are ), there is a good reason to want to solve this question: it would be useful for any Green/Patton discographers.

Bertrand.

Edited May 7, 2006 by bertrand

[Harold_Z]

I have a vinyl copy of "The Grass Is Greener" that I bought back in the day. They play the head twice.

That's a shitty thing to edit. On this tune the head is really setting up the whole solo thing.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I have a vinyl copy of "The Grass Is Greener" that I bought back in the day. They play the head twice.

That's a shitty thing to edit. On this tune the head is really setting up the whole solo thing.

OK, mystery deepens.

I have the Japanese CD (AMCY1285) and they play the head once. So that's the same as the new CD.

I have the original LP, as well, and they play the head ONCE!

WTF?

MG