Hey Kids, Have You Heard The News? MOSAIC's IN TROUBLE!!!

[Brad]

I’m thinking it was full but wouldn’t swear to it. 

[CJ Shearn]

I always wondered how the partial sets were produced, manufacturers, error, returns of defective parts?  I remember 20 years ago when I got the Mobley set I requested a new disc 6 to swap out a badly damaged one, and they were so prompt, but I always wondered how a proliferation of partial sets occurred.

[Brad]

That could be the answer as perhaps they only make enough cds to fill a set.  On the other hand, they may also make extra sets because in the normal course there will be a certain amount of spoilage.  

When i was there I saw groups of cds marked as disc 1, disc 3, etc. for particular sets. 

[CJ Shearn]

7 hours ago, Brad said:

That could be the answer as perhaps they only make enough cds to fill a set.  On the other hand, they may also make extra sets because in the normal course there will be a certain amount of spoilage.  

When i was there I saw groups of cds marked as disc 1, disc 3, etc. for particular sets. 

Ahh ok, that makes sense.  I wonder if the labels will license the material used for Mosaic sets for streeaming and such.  I remember OOP Selects on Spotify several years ago

[Brad]

I remember early in this thread someone asked about streaming Mosaics and I recall the answer from Michael Cuscuna as no. 

[J.A.W.]

55 minutes ago, CJ Shearn said:

Ahh ok, that makes sense.  I wonder if the labels will license the material used for Mosaic sets for streeaming and such.  I remember OOP Selects on Spotify several years ago

 

48 minutes ago, Brad said:

I remember early in this thread someone asked about streaming Mosaics and I recall the answer from Michael Cuscuna as no. 

It has indeed been discussed before. Mosaic's licenses are for CD reissues only, they aren't allowed by the licensing labels to sell downloads or stream sets.

Edited March 27, 2018 by J.A.W.

[CJ Shearn]

Interesting... so did Spotify obtain the Bobby Hutcherson Select illegally?  I regret selling that years ago b/c I never played it much. I always liked Spotify for streaming new music but never as a substitute for serious listening.  I found many things, as are Amazon's AutoRip some things are badly encoded (Keith Jarrett "Testament" for example, the piano sounds wavy like a badly encoded 90's MP3)

[medjuck]

30 minutes ago, CJ Shearn said:

Interesting... so did Spotify obtain the Bobby Hutcherson Select illegally?  I regret selling that years ago b/c I never played it much. I always liked Spotify for streaming new music but never as a substitute for serious listening.  I found many things, as are Amazon's AutoRip some things are badly encoded (Keith Jarrett "Testament" for example, the piano sounds wavy like a badly encoded 90's MP3)

EMI/Capital put out several Mosaic Selects on iTunes without identifying them as such.  (IIRC they also gave each  collection a title different than the one Mosaic used.)

[CJ Shearn]

2 minutes ago, medjuck said:

EMI/Capital put out several Mosaic Selects on iTunes without identifying them as such.  (IIRC they also gave each  collection a title different than the one Mosaic used.)

Ahh I see!!!!  So that must have been done on Spotify as well.

[medjuck]

6 hours ago, CJ Shearn said:

Ahh I see!!!!  So that must have been done on Spotify as well.

I think they were called The Capital Vault Series and were all owned by Capital/Emi.  Wow I just looked them up. There are 16 of them and they include some larger boxes.  Prices are all over the place.  $11.99 for the Dexter Select, $89.99 for the Bobby Hackett. 

Edited March 28, 2018 by medjuck

[Daniel A]

Yes, forum member David Ayers shared this Spotify Mosaic set playlist many years ago:

https://open.spotify.com/user/davidayers/playlist/4VzRzvG0hYshc4mo5M8MRo?si=PelJCiA-R6-Qw621igvOSg

 

[Brad]

I don’t use Spotify but wonder if Spotify is legally permitted to do that without the label’s permission. 

[CJ Shearn]

1 hour ago, medjuck said:

I think they were called The Capital Vault Series and were all owned by Capital/Emi.  Wow I just looked them up. There are 16 of them and they include some larger boxes.  Prices are all over the place.  $11.99 for the Dexter Select, $89.99 for the Bobby Hackett. 

Yes I remember that Capitol Vault Series series line.  $89.99 for a download? Crazy.  No thanks, give me the full package any day.  Downloads, I have Blakey's "Mosaic", from HDTracks sounds great, but the $17.98 without a PDF of the liners or anything was a bit too much.

Edited March 28, 2018 by CJ Shearn

[Daniel A]

1 hour ago, Brad said:

I don’t use Spotify but wonder if Spotify is legally permitted to do that without the label’s permission. 

No, they aren't. But Spotify don't put anything up for streaming by themselves, legally or illegaly. They are just a distribution channel. It's the owners of the rights to this material that have done that.

As we know, Mosaic don't have the rights to online digital distribution. Spotify always indicates the names of the labels/distributors. For these sets, they are given as "Capitol Records, LLC" or "The Verve Music Group, a division of UMG Recordings Inc".

Edited March 28, 2018 by Daniel A
Spelling

[Brad]

I don’t think that answers the question. If people are listening to the music or paying to listen to it, isn’t the copyright holder is losing a sale. The person who puts it on there is a licensee not the owner.  I will need to look into the question. 

[Daniel A]

I thought Capitol *are* the owner and Mosaic a licensee. And they (Capitol) are getting paid for each stream. I might be paying a flat monthly rate to listen, but a percentage of the total revenue is administered back to the owner, based on the number of total plays.

That wasn't perhaps what you were after, but anyway.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Daniel A

[Scott Dolan]

No. In the case of Spotify, they are paying the labels for the right to stream their music. They pay a hefty fee up front, and then a fee for each time a track is listened to. 

[Daniel A]

Ok, that's good to know! But I suppose the point is that it's not done without the knowledge or cooperation of the label (i.e. a distribution channel they are opting in to).

Edited March 28, 2018 by Daniel A

[Scott Dolan]

No, absolutely not. That would essentially be pirating. If Spotify did that they would end up taking a dirt nap(ster). 

[Brad]

40 minutes ago, Scott Dolan said:

No. In the case of Spotify, they are paying the labels for the right to stream their music. They pay a hefty fee up front, and then a fee for each time a track is listened to. 

I thought as much but they have been recently hit with some copyright infringement cases as they try to go public.  

https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews.go.com/amp/Entertainment/spotify-hit-16-billion-copyright-infringement-lawsuit/story%3fid=52104636

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.billboard.com/amp/articles/business/7964869/spotify-mechanical-rights-legal-argument-upend-music-industry-recovery

[Scott Dolan]

Wow! What a bunch of idiots! 

Best of luck with the mechanical argument. Listeners didn't have paid subscriptions to radio stations.

[J.A.W.]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

I thought Capitol *are* the owner and Mosaic a licensee. And they (Capitol) are getting paid for each stream. I might be paying a flat monthly rate to listen, but a percentage of the total revenue is administered back to the owner, based on the number of total plays.

That wasn't perhaps what you were after, but anyway.

The Capitol label and all its sub labels, including Blue Note, are owned by Universal since the latter acquired EMI a few years ago. To prevent them from becoming too big the European Commission ordered Universal to sell EMI's classical division, including Virgin Classics, and the Parlophone label (but not the Beatles catalogue), which were subsequently acquired by Warner Music.

Edited March 28, 2018 by J.A.W.

[medjuck]

Wasn't Mosaic partially owned by Capital?  Does Universal Music now own a piece of it?  And who owns Universal Music? 

10 hours ago, CJ Shearn said:

Yes I remember that Capitol Vault Series series line.  $89.99 for a download? Crazy.  No thanks, give me the full package any day.  Downloads, I have Blakey's "Mosaic", from HDTracks sounds great, but the $17.98 without a PDF of the liners or anything was a bit too much.

I downloaded the Dexter then bought a booklet from Mosaic. 

[J.A.W.]

31 minutes ago, medjuck said:

Wasn't Mosaic partially owned by Capital?  Does Universal Music now own a piece of it?  And who owns Universal Music? 

The name of the label is Capitol, not Capital. If nothing has changed with Mosaic since Capitol was taken over by Universal, it seems likely that it is now partially owned by Universal. Universal Music is owned by Vivendi, which is based in France: Universal Music Group (UMG)

Edited March 28, 2018 by J.A.W.

[Scott Dolan]

31 minutes ago, medjuck said:

Wasn't Mosaic partially owned by Capital?  Does Universal Music now own a piece of it?  And who owns Universal Music? 

I downloaded the Dexter then bought a booklet from Mosaic. 

I'm seeing that Capital has owned 50% of Mosaic since the late 90's. Nothing about UMG. UMG's parent company is called Vivendi. 

 

Edit: oops, Hans beat me to it. 

Edited March 28, 2018 by Scott Dolan