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Which jazz book are you reading right now?


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2 hours ago, BillF said:

Yes, those who saw them are now a shrinking bunch. Can't claim to have seen Bird, Bud or Fats, but did see Diz, Monk, Max, Klook, Dex, Stitt, Haig, Albany, Bishop and McKibbon.

Yes, Bud didn´t tour the UK. I heard that many fans from UK traveled to Paris to hear him. The british author Alan Shipton who wrote a book about Bud had gone to Paris to see him live. 
Too bad that my parents were not jazz fans. In the summer of 1964 we were on holiday in the Italian Riviera and made also a trip in France. During exactly that time Bud had played in Edenville on the French beach. Sometimes I "dream" my parents would have gone there and I would have heard him, since this was no night club, it was open air in the garden of a restaurant. 

From the surviving Bop stars who were key figures in Ira Gitler´s book, I saw Diz, Kai Winding, Sonny Stitt, Dex, Max Roach, Roy Haynes to mention some....

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4 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

Yes, Bud didn´t tour the UK. I heard that many fans from UK traveled to Paris to hear him. The british author Alan Shipton who wrote a book about Bud had gone to Paris to see him live. 
Too bad that my parents were not jazz fans. In the summer of 1964 we were on holiday in the Italian Riviera and made also a trip in France. During exactly that time Bud had played in Edenville on the French beach. Sometimes I "dream" my parents would have gone there and I would have heard him, since this was no night club, it was open air in the garden of a restaurant. 

From the surviving Bop stars who were key figures in Ira Gitler´s book, I saw Diz, Kai Winding, Sonny Stitt, Dex, Max Roach, Roy Haynes to mention some....

Yes, I didn't make the trip to Paris to hear Bud, as did some of my friends. Someone who told me he'd heard Bud in Paris was none other than Joe Harriott! (He also said he'd never heard Bird live. "Just the records, man".)

Edited by BillF
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When I was in New York with my parents one time, I read that Bud was playing at Birdland. I was a teenager at the time.

I went to Birdland and saw the  Bud Powell trio. Not sure I am able to remember correctly, but think he was with Paul Chambers and Art Taylor. I had to sit in the area that did not serve alcohol as I was underage.

Though I did not get to see Bird or Fats, I did see almost all the others from the book. 

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Marchel Ivery was in Paris for his Army stint and saw Bud more than once. He was also present for the Olympia concert of Miles & Trane.

Marchel is no longer with us, unfortunately. But he passed the stories and images along. One striking thing he said was that Donald Byrd figured out that when Bud was in a stupor of some sort, he could bring Bud out of it by playing like Fats Navarro. That would seem to trigger something in Bud to get him back in from wherever he was.

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15 hours ago, JSngry said:

Marchel Ivery was in Paris for his Army stint and saw Bud more than once. He was also present for the Olympia concert of Miles & Trane.

Marchel is no longer with us, unfortunately. But he passed the stories and images along. One striking thing he said was that Donald Byrd figured out that when Bud was in a stupor of some sort, he could bring Bud out of it by playing like Fats Navarro. That would seem to trigger something in Bud to get him back in from wherever he was.

I always said that Bud was too often recorded in a trio format. From the early days on he was at his very best, when he performed or recorded with horn players. The sides with Dexter and J.J. Johnson, with Sonny Stitt, with Fats Navarro and Sonny Rollins, the live dates with Bird and Diz or Fats IMHO are the best records from 1946-1953. 
Then, the not long ago discovered  Birdland 57 material with Donald Byrd and Phil Woods, and the side B with Curtis Fuller on the BN studio album.
And in the 60´s the many occasions of encounters with great hornplayers: With Blakey and the Jazzmessengers with Lee and Wayne in 1959 and again in 1959 with Clark Terry, with Hawk in 1960, with Don Byas in 1961, with Zoot Sims, with "Americans in Europe in 1963" as well with Dexter "Our Man in Paris", with Dizzy and the Double Six in the same year, with Johnny Griffin in 1964, they all are much more interesting than many trio settings. 

 

16 hours ago, Peter Friedman said:

When I was in New York with my parents one time, I read that Bud was playing at Birdland. I was a teenager at the time.

I went to Birdland and saw the  Bud Powell trio. Not sure I am able to remember correctly, but think he was with Paul Chambers and Art Taylor. I had to sit in the area that did not serve alcohol as I was underage.

Though I did not get to see Bird or Fats, I did see almost all the others from the book. 

That must be a great memory, do you remember more about that evening, what they played or so ? 

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11 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

I always said that Bud was too often recorded in a trio format. From the early days on he was at his very best, when he performed or recorded with horn players. The sides with Dexter and J.J. Johnson, with Sonny Stitt, with Fats Navarro and Sonny Rollins, the live dates with Bird and Diz or Fats IMHO are the best records from 1946-1953. 
Then, the not long ago discovered  Birdland 57 material with Donald Byrd and Phil Woods, and the side B with Curtis Fuller on the BN studio album.
And in the 60´s the many occasions of encounters with great hornplayers: With Blakey and the Jazzmessengers with Lee and Wayne in 1959 and again in 1959 with Clark Terry, with Hawk in 1960, with Don Byas in 1961, with Zoot Sims, with "Americans in Europe in 1963" as well with Dexter "Our Man in Paris", with Dizzy and the Double Six in the same year, with Johnny Griffin in 1964, they all are much more interesting than many trio settings. 

 

That must be a great memory, do you remember more about that evening, what they played or so ? 

Sorry Gheorghe, I don't remember any tunes or other things about the time I saw Bud Powell. It was more that 6 decades ago.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Arrived in the mail recently:

41XIax04UNL._SX358_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

Friedwald is an interesting author, always enjoyable.  Our musical temperaments and assumptions are very different, but -- even when I disagree with him -- I find that his enthusiasms are so enthusiastic that I can't help but get carried along.  It's just a matter of ignoring the differences -- for example, how does he not get Jackie and Roy!?!?! ;) -- and focusing on the common and/or "new" ground.  

 

Also reading this:

51UJ8m7hIjL._SY646_.jpg

Sheed was a novelist, so his writing often crackles pleasurably.  Plus, he shares the same sort of no-holds-barred enthusiasm for his subject as Friedwald, and it's similarly catching. ... As a "jazz person," it's fun to approach & read about this music from the perspective of a songwriter rather than one of a musician.  Very different animals.

 

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Just now, sidewinder said:

I saw her BBC documentary on this year’s ago and scanned the book around that time - the impression I got was that it didn’t add too much to what was in the programme but I may be wrong !

My concern is that this biography of the jazz baroness, written by a family member, may be less about jazz and more about baroness.

I mean, will Ms. Rothschild know about flattened fifths? ;)

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2 minutes ago, BillF said:

My concern is that this biography of the jazz baroness, written by a family member, may be less about jazz and more about baroness.

I mean, will Ms. Rothschild know about flattened fifths? ;)

Going by what was in the doc, it will focus on the baroness more than the jazz I think, although Monk featured prominently in that prog as I recall. As I remember it, she moved from London to NY for a while in the 80s to stay with Nica for a period.

Edited by sidewinder
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On 3/25/2022 at 2:55 AM, Gheorghe said:

From the early days on he was at his very best, when he performed or recorded with horn players. The sides with Dexter and J.J. Johnson, with Sonny Stitt, with Fats Navarro and Sonny Rollins, the live dates with Bird and Diz or Fats IMHO are the best records from 1946-1953. 

Respectfully, I disagree  completely. Nothing is on a a higher plane of invention -- and I mean nothing -- than the 1951 solo piano tracks (The Fruit, Dusky 'N' Sandy, Oblivion, Hallucinations, etc.) and the 1949 trios on Clef/Mercury/Verve -- Celia, Tempus fugit, Strictly Confidential, Cherokee, etc,  and the Blue Note trios 1949-51. I love the recordings with horns too, and it's certainly reasonable to lament that Bud didn't record more with horns, especially later. But if I want to hear Bud's genius as an improvisor and composer at its most concentrated and expressive, I'm listening to the solos and the trios every time, and I think if you asked any student of Bud's, from Barry Harris on down, they'd say the same thing.

 

 

Edited by Mark Stryker
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3 hours ago, Mark Stryker said:

Respectfully, I disagree  completely. Nothing is on a a higher plane of invention -- and I mean nothing -- than the 1951 solo piano tracks (The Fruit, Dusky 'N' Sandy, Oblivion, Hallucinations," etc.) and the 1949 trios on Clef/Mercury/Verve -- Celia, Tempus fugit, Strictly Confidential, Cherokee, etc,  and the Blue Note trios 1949-51. I love the recordings with horns too, and it's certainly reasonable to lament that Bud didn't record more with horns, especially later. But if I want to hear Bud's genius as an improvisor and composer at its most concentrated and expressive, I'm listening to the solos and the trios every time, and I think if you asked any student of Bud's, from Barry Harris on down, they'd say the same thing.

 

 

:tup

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9 hours ago, Mark Stryker said:

Respectfully, I disagree  completely. Nothing is on a a higher plane of invention -- and I mean nothing -- than the 1951 solo piano tracks (The Fruit, Dusky 'N' Sandy, Oblivion, Hallucinations," etc.) and the 1949 trios on Clef/Mercury/Verve -- Celia, Tempus fugit, Strictly Confidential, Cherokee, etc,  and the Blue Note trios 1949-51. I love the recordings with horns too, and it's certainly reasonable to lament that Bud didn't record more with horns, especially later. But if I want to hear Bud's genius as an improvisor and composer at its most concentrated and expressive, I'm listening to the solos and the trios every time, and I think if you asked any student of Bud's, from Barry Harris on down, they'd say the same thing.

 

 

I also agree with you Mark.

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12 hours ago, Mark Stryker said:

Respectfully, I disagree  completely. Nothing is on a a higher plane of invention -- and I mean nothing -- than the 1951 solo piano tracks (The Fruit, Dusky 'N' Sandy, Oblivion, Hallucinations," etc.) and the 1949 trios on Clef/Mercury/Verve -- Celia, Tempus fugit, Strictly Confidential, Cherokee, etc,  and the Blue Note trios 1949-51. I love the recordings with horns too, and it's certainly reasonable to lament that Bud didn't record more with horns, especially later. But if I want to hear Bud's genius as an improvisor and composer at its most concentrated and expressive, I'm listening to the solos and the trios every time, and I think if you asked any student of Bud's, from Barry Harris on down, they'd say the same thing.

 

 

As a coda to my thoughts above, I want to add that I consider the December 1949/January 1950 quartet sides with Sonny Stitt in the very top rank of Bud's work with the solos and trios mentioned previously.

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On 9.4.2022 at 5:24 AM, Mark Stryker said:

Respectfully, I disagree  completely. Nothing is on a a higher plane of invention -- and I mean nothing -- than the 1951 solo piano tracks (The Fruit, Dusky 'N' Sandy, Oblivion, Hallucinations, etc.) and the 1949 trios on Clef/Mercury/Verve -- Celia, Tempus fugit, Strictly Confidential, Cherokee, etc,  and the Blue Note trios 1949-51. I love the recordings with horns too, and it's certainly reasonable to lament that Bud didn't record more with horns, especially later. But if I want to hear Bud's genius as an improvisor and composer at its most concentrated and expressive, I'm listening to the solos and the trios every time, and I think if you asked any student of Bud's, from Barry Harris on down, they'd say the same thing.

 

 

@Mark Stryker , dear Mr. Stryker. First of all I´m honoured that you responded to my statement and I respect the fact, that you disagrree completely. I can understand your point of view. I learned all I can play on the piano from listening intensly to Bud Powell for most of my live. My first listening experience was "One Night at Birdland" , 1950 with Bird and Fats, Curley Russell and Blakey, and soon after this the "Summit Meeting at Birdland 1951" and the Massey Hall concert. I already knew the quintet tracks from BN from the Fats Navarro album. After that I purchased the 2 LP Verve with the 1949-51 sessions. But from the first point I thought as a playing musician what fascinated me most is the bop language transferred to the piano. I would not say I did copy to much, but it seems it´s the musical language I know best. I find Bud´s highest qualities as an improviser in context with fellow geniuses and as a musician I want to hear the whole context, a drummer who responds to the phrases, or Bud picking up a Bird phrase when starting his chorusses or exchanging 4 bars....... . I don´t want to copy Bud, I want to play in this "language" which I understand best. So my approach was not just Bud solo or as only soloist in a trio , but more in the whole context. 

Best regards. Gh. 

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Ideas that I enjoy reading about:  "jazz genealogy" -  "digital age jazz by generation (1984 to present)" -  "obscure TDWR bandmates/sidemen."  

My particular biases and tastes have been shaped by advantages of reading, listening, discussing what I call "The Mother Lode" from Dixieland to Rock to

Retro and beyond.

Suggested reading is most appreciated.

 

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