BLINDFOLD TEST #8

[Jim Dye]

I'm starting the discussion early because my wife just gave birth to our new son last night! Woo hoo!

Let the discussion commence!

I'll try to peek in here from time to time, but i'll be pretty busy this week.

If you have a broken disc, or a missing disc, just let me know and I or someone else will try to take care of the problem.

Enjoy!

[randyhersom]

1. My first thought was Gunter Hampel and Bobby Naughton, but I think this is a little more steeped in Blue Note tradition than that. Marty Ehrlich was the next name to come up. I don't know that he has recorded with this instrumental lineup, but I'm liking that guess.

2. Unusual piano sound. Maybe later Andrew Hill, like Dusk.

3. Almost certainly him. Either this or this. It's the first of those two, I was already picking up the tenor when I realized there was no guitar.

4. I'm thinking Flora Purim and Airto with Chick Corea and the original Return To Forever. If it's a later band they sure are wearing their influences on their sleeve.

5. Reminiscent of Arthur Blythe's Lenox Avenue Breakdown, but I don't think the instrumentation matches, I don't rememebr bari in that band. I definitely thought of Hamiet Bluiett at the beginning. I'm going with Henry Threadgill. Earthy, funky and just a little out.

So far this test is very much to my tastes. Sangrey will dig it.

6. Sounds like seventies Woody Shaw to me.

7. The general vibe is Miles Second Quintet, but I don't think that's Miles. VSOP with Freddie Hubbard? Not sure I've heard Wayne as down and dirty as this solo gets about halfway through. The tenor switches to flute and blows that whole idea. Then the trumpet comes in much more reminiscent of Miles, as if to taunt me.

8. I like the sax's entrance. I'm having trouble picking which instrument, much less which player. First time through i was guessing Chick Corea, either Origin or live with Joe Henderson. Second time through, Clifford Jordan made more sense, but I'm far from sure. Not Joe.

9. Picturesque piano. Pretty sure it's this. Possibly the best track ever made by this very fine player. We sure like to play him a lot on the BFT.

10. McCoy Tyner comes to mind during the opening ensemble, specifically the band with George Adams. When I get to the piano solo I'm not thinking McCoy any more. The solo is either an extremely agile bari, or a tenor who sticks the lower range of the instrument. None of the high register ululations that George is known for, but I'm going with Don Pullen-George Adams. Second listen I'm pretty sure that the composition is McCoy's, but not his band. That's got to be a bari. Not Pullen-Adams then. Cecil Payne?

11. Nature Boy. I'm thinking that's a woman with a particularly deep voice, but that's not a certainty. It doesn't sound like Jimmy Scott. Quite possibly someone I haven't heard. Nature Boy usually isn't heard in this seventies-ish sort of arrangement. Cassandra Wilson?

12. Now this is this. I know it in an earlier version. I was sure it was the same artist but had to look up the album that it was re-recorded on.

Bonus 1. Very persistent bowed bass. Henry Threadgill fits here too. I doubt they're both right, but so far I haven't come up with a better guess. On second listen I decided that an album I haven't heard in a long time, Charles Sullivan's Genesis was a better guess.

Bonus 2. I know the composition right away but I need to hear the horn to know which version. Ah, a clarinet. It's this.

Bonus 3. Way out lots of horns and drums, perhaps some electronics in the beginning beat. Spring Heel Jack perhaps, or maybe a European group like LJCO or Instabile. I'm going with Spring Heel Jack.

Bonus 4. My first guess here was Jemeel Moondoc and the Jus Grew Orchestra, but it seems just a little tighter than I remember Spirit House being. At times reminiscent of the Mingus Carnegie Hall date, but the theme certainly isn't Perdido, and I don't think it's C Jam Blues. I love the combination of tight ensembles, swing and edgy playing here. Now I'm thinking it's one of the Mingus tribute bands, say Mingus Dynasty?

Edited March 9, 2004 by randyhersom

[randyhersom]

Major congratulations, Jim.

[MartyJazz]

Jim!

First of all, congratulations on the birth of your newborn.

Was surprised to see that discussion has already started. I need to listen more, but I feel confident at least that track 7 features Yusef Lateef and possibly Richard Williams on trumpet. I'll second Randy's feeling that track 3 features Larry Young but I know the cuts are not from either Unity or Into Something as I'm quite familiar with those sides.

Obviously have to do more listening.

[John B]

Jim -

Congratulations on the birth of your son! Excellent news.

I received the discs today and we greatly enjoyed listening to both as we ate dinner. I'll post later with my thoughts - there are a few tracks I know, many more I have no clue.

[randyhersom]

If it isn't from Unity, it probably isn't Larry Young. Trumpet, tenor, organ and drums isn't a real common lineup. If I weren't standing by my guess, I'd seriously consider this possibility

[Nate Dorward]

OK here goes:

disc 1

1: Nice arrangement of the Dolphy tune. I’m a little less interested once the solos kick in, in part because the strutting accompaniment doesn’t seem all that interesting. It’s Don Byron on the clarinet, Ray Anderson on trombone.

2: Ugh, the rubbery sound on the bass dates this one! I think I recognize the tenor but can’t place it. The Monkish pianist is very familiar-sounding too. The accompaniment on this sounds interestingly offkilter (oddly balanced), though I can’t figure out if that’s maybe in part an artifact of the recording (the drums for instance). I’ll take a completely wild guess & say Andy Sheppard &, hm, Stan Tracey. This one was interesting, even if a little too hopped-up for my taste.

3: The opening notes sound to me unmistakably like Larry Young, indeed extremely close to a piece like “Zoltan” or “Beyond All Limits” from Unity. But surely this can’t be, I thought I had all of Young’s work in this vein in the 1960s? Unless it’s one of those dates with Woody Shaw? A really weird tenor solo, on the edge of coherency. The trumpet solo sounds to me much more modern & self-possessed, suggesting this is some retro date on the Criss Cross label or the like. Hm, the organist has a few licks in there which don’t sound like Larry’s bag, but the sound is SO close to Larry Young....! I don’t quite like the drumming, somehow (& there’s a few untogether bits under the tenor solo). Anyway, I’m pretty sure this isn’t Young so it’s probably a facsimile by an epigone. If so it’s a darn good--unnerving, really--facsimile, even if it doesn’t quite gel for me.

4: I don’t think this is Return to Forever, so (not being a fusion fans) I have no idea at all who this is! Some interesting textures, but once the vocalist was introduced it didn’t go anywhere special, just kind of petered out.

5: Nice opening. Once the tune starts there’s some European folksong vibe to the tune (the ornamentation & tonality). I’ve no idea who any of the players are. The question is going to be whether this is an American band influenced by European/klezmer musics, or a European band (e.g. someone like Carlo Actis Dato). The hints of Masada in this make me think this is probably an American band though.

6: Very poorly balanced recording, obviously live. Incredibly tricky head! Soprano solo’s OK, not great. Piano solo is impressively in command, seems to get cut off a little early. Trumpet solo interests me more, & hm, this is the first player here I get the feeling I should recognize. Anyway, a good track of its kind, not quite my thing but I appreciate it.

7: More so-so live sound. Strange tenor sound. Oops, everything’s slowing down: what’s going on? OK, we’re out the other end of the segue, & we get the tenor again. I have NO idea who it is: again the tone is very distinctive so I think if I knew this guy elsewhere I’d instantly recognize him. Ho-hum, a bass solo, no comment. Sweet slightly orientalized flute sound, again very very distinctive whoever it is. Sharp attacking trumpet. A little piano, a little more bass (the leader?). What does the guy say at the end of the piece? I can’t understand it: maybe it’s not English (Japanese?).

8: Bobby Watson. I have his Columbia discs & it’s not them: this is probably a fairly recent disc? Yow, the very full sound comes as a bit of a shock after the last few tracks. Ugh, Bobby’s pushing too hard on the solo: I liked the opening but he gets way too insistent: why can’t he leave a climax alone? Piano solo’s OK, nothing too attention-grabbing. But the track is really all about the rich, upbeat sound & rhythm.

9: Nice moody piano opening. I’m less impressed once the band comes in. Weird pseudo-classical touches on the piano obbligatos. Why does the tempo seem to go up a smidgen each time at the turnaround...? I like this even less once the pianist’s solo starts, which again seems in some ways a bit alien to jazz-piano procedures. Not a hell of a lot happens during the vibes solo, which is impressively vapid. Sorry, this is the first track on the BFT that I think is simply lousy.

10: yikes, this is rather inyerface. I’ve no idea who this is, & don’t get much out of it. Like most of the tracks so far this isn’t exactly subtle....

11: More odd balance (the horn chart sounds like there’s a missing channel), though I take it that may in part be intentionally part of the wacky arrangement?? I haven’t the faintest what this is. Must be a thankless task tootling on the flute decoratively in this kind of arrangement. A long stretch of nothing happening after the vocalist states the tune (“Nature Boy”). Someone went to a lot of trouble with this chart & has little to show for it.

12: Starts out OK but once the tune comes in this turns terribly blowsy. McCoy Tyner on piano: unmistakable. I don’t like the hectoring sax solo much. Now a little cooling-off interlude for flute, pleasant enough. Sorry, this track is simply too garish for me to take seriously: this is, with 9, one of the things on here I just can’t find any merit in.

disc 2:

1: A nice opening - bird calls, tinkling percussion, a really powerful bass drone. Oh, here comes a fast-moving head. Nice stuff – the bass very prominent & powerful. Trumpet solo first – is there some kind of electronic effect on his instrument at points, or is that just the acoustics? Nice declamatory player, all the more effective for being unhurried, a distinctive tone, maybe a little too reliant on a few favourite patterns (that ascending motif), but it’s characterful stuff. More orthodox (& busy) free-jazz alto sax: I’m a litle less interested once he starts to really get frenzied but it does provide a good opportunity for the bass & drums to really throw a log on the fire. Oh, a trombone - somehow I hadn’t registered his presence before during the ensembles. Pretty bruising stuff, maybe too relentless, though he throws in “There Will Never Be Another You” at 14:14 which makes me smile. OK he’s cooling off, as we lead to the bass solo - no hang on, it’s a drum solo. Not a bad drum solo either. Here’s the head again. Hm, they’re moving into a bit I don’t remember from the start of the piece: a new coda? Now the drone bass comes back & we’re back where we started. This is a pretty good track. I have no idea who the players are though I probably should.

2: I know this track well (the original two albums from this gig were recently reissued as a twofer - & are currently on sale at a reduced price, so there’s no excuse not to pick them up). I’ll skip ahead to #3....

3: Great opening! Is that acoustic or electronic, the bang-bang-bang-bang noise? I hope it doesn’t continue TOO much longer..... OK it’s going on so long now it’s clear it’s sampled. Hm, so I’m still waiting for something to HAPPEN..... OK, more loop stuff. Er, it’s pretty clear we’ve got some circular breathers here, so that narrows things down a bit. This one is going to take a while to reach wherever it’s going I can see - we seem to have reached a combined acoustic + electronic drums passage now. Now we get rid of the buildup & move to straightahead alto sax + trumpet free jazz mayhem with a little synth. It’s William Parker on the bass (well, that’s ALWAYS a safe bet, but I’m sure). This is shaping up to be one of those self-consciously “innovative” Thirsty Ear things. Once the electronics disappear the sound gets rather murky (live concert?). Lots of traffic-horn honking. A very dull trumpet solo, it’s probably Roy Campbell. Bass clarinet, nothing much going on, & so I’m sittign here mostly just wondering what the point was of the electronics-laced opening if most of the track is going to be just some by-the-numbers free-jazz blowout. So now the horns are playing together, & at least the players strike more sparks off each other than they do left to their own devices. Oh, we get a TUNE at the 15:00 mark: three darn notes! By now I’m just sitting here waiting for the track to end: I don’t hate this but it simply isn’t going anywhere interesting. The electronics are notably pointless here if they can’t be bothered to use them for more than a weird opening.

4: Mingus-derived chart but rather weird, some Sun Ra in there too. The alto sax sounds like Sonny Criss crossed with John Zorn! I should know who it is I suspect..... God, the chord changes are a brief cycle but I can’t get a handle on them at all, they don’t go where I expect. The drummer sounds like perhaps Pheeroan akLaff. Probably George Lewis on trombone. I can hear the changes little more clearly in his playing though many it’s because I’m used to them now (& have just cranked up the bass on the stereo). Nice wacked-out trumpet! David Murray, unmistakable: OK this is the Octet! That means my prior i.d.s are surely wrong but I can’t be bothered to go back & revise. Yeah, that’s prime-cut Murray. I don’t always like his stuff but when he’s on he’s great. Talky, interesting 2nd trumpet solo (the sound-quality suggests maybe it’s cornet). OK here’s a big Mingusy pileup, and, oddly enough, a Latin closer. What on earth is this ending doing here? Well, they persist with it enough that it wins me over.

On the whole I got more out of the 2nd disc than the 1st--only dip was the dull 3rd track.

Edited March 14, 2004 by Nate Dorward

[Nate Dorward]

Disc 1 track 1 is surely this one.

[Big Al]

I would've thought track 3 was from this, but I only say that because:

a) there's nothing quite as distinctive as this guy's sound

and

B) I'm pretty sure it isn't from any of his other BN output. I think!

As for the rest, I'm stumped, meaning not only do I not know any of the answers, but I can't even come up with any ideas as to who they might be. So I'm looking forward to the answers again.

Disc two woke me up on the way to work. That's the way to start a day!

[Nate Dorward]

No: I have the Mosaic Larry-Young-on-Blue-Note set & it's not that either.

[brownie]

I see that the discussion has started. And I'm still waiting to receive my discs

Edited March 10, 2004 by brownie

[tooter]

Jim – both discs received - here are impressions.

Disc 1

1. Not much idea about this – clarinet solo contains a quote “on top of a load of hay” but I cannot even remember the name of that tune! Vibes playing reminds of Gary Burton playing behind Stan Getz. No solo for him though so unlikely to be GB.

2. Again cannot recognise anybody here even though it is a bit nearer my usual kind of thing. Nice though – enjoyed it.

3. I have a deeply ingrained prejudice against organs, mainly because I played alongside one for many years in a dance band (the damned thing was at fffff all the time, or so it seemed) but also because they seem to me always to lag behind the beat. I failed to identify anybody in the line-up. Again a nice track though – be interested to know the players in due course.

4. Not my kind of thing, beat a bit too insistent, but I found myself liking it nevertheless. No idea who.

5. “Whirling Dervishes”? Is it a baritone or a bass sax? No hope.

6. The name “VSOP” popped into my mind but wildly off the mark I’m sure. If only they would play some phrases I know I might be able to guess at somebody. Beginning to think “won’t get anything here” and then

7. Got this one – nice blues – unmistakable tenor/flute so that leads me on to the rest of them. Cryptically – thought of as lucky by some.

8. This is my kind of listening too but only a wild guess to offer – Donald Harrison?

9. Piano sounds like “Flight of the Bumblebee” at times. No clue again.

10. Wild guess again – Ronnie Cuber?

11. “Nature Boy” – great song. No guesses even.

12. Sure of the leader – piano – the real thing. Title to do with aviation. Don’t know the album.

Disc2

1. Arco bass sounds like a didgeridoo – effective. But it’s too far out for me to have any chance.

2. Same again I’m afraid.

3. The only way I’m going to appreciate this music is some kind of a lobotomy I guess!

4. More accessible for me – curate’s egg. Woody Shaw’s name springs to mind but I don’t think it’s him. No more guesses, inspired or otherwise.

Thanks for a very stimulating and engrossing BFT, Jim – I was so carried away I forgot the time and was chastised for tardiness in complying with the usual routine here. And my congratulations too on the birth of your son.

Edited March 11, 2004 by tooter

[John B]

I'll be seeing the trombone player on disc one, track one live tonight, but I have no idea what album this is off of. My wife called this one having Ray on it before I did, I am proud to say.

[mikeweil]

Congratulations to you and your wife! You have a name for him yet?

No wonder you're looking a little exhausted on your avatar

[Peter Johnson]

Not looking! Not looking! Not looking!

Just got the disc last night, Jim--sounds great!

I'll try to post some thoughts before the weekend...seven replies already--I'm dying to look!

Thanks for preparing and sending this out, particularly with junior (then, to-be only!) scrambling for your attention!

[Nate Dorward]

Just edited the original post to include responses to everything. I forgot to add my congrats for the birth of your son, too.

[randyhersom]

I don't think Larry Young recorded as a sideman on organ with Woody Shaw. He played piano on Cassandrite.

[couw]

Track 1. Nice bass clarinet vamp, very Dolphy-esque in its intonation. Come to think of it, is this Iron Man? Sure sounds like it. The overall sound of this reminds me of the Dutch group SFeQ. This is mainly because they also featue nice, fat beats, bass clarinet, and their alto player (Bart Suer) plays not unlike the clarinet on this track. This is a bit more out though. Trombone must be Ray Anderson, I guess this is easily found out using google knowing that.

I rather like this, but some of it seems a bit too tight at times. I'm curious to find out what this is and what the rest of it is like.

Track 2. There is something very familiar in the tone of this saxplayer and there are some very familiar licks as well. Piano has some Monkisms. Overall this is *very* uptight, like the alto player needs to go peepee. Too uptight maybe.

Track 3. This must be Larry Young. It's not Unity and it's not Mothership. The tenor has a very nice buttery tone, e-a-e-a-e-a-s-y-y-y, even on the faster parts, very nice. I would need to check with my collection to pin this down mo' better. Trumpet has a Morganite quality. This may even be Lee, although the tone is a bit too much on the dark side. Not something I'd associate with Woody either, another likely candidate. I do not have the Young mosaic box and there are some albums I have never heard. Love and Peace maybe?

Track 4. Electric piano sounds like it may be Chick Corea, add guitar and you may have RTF. I have never warmed up to RTF, but this is enjoyable enough. The chanting is a nice touch. Some phrases and sounds in the chant make me think this is a portugese or brazilian singer. Cool for lounging and sipping Martini's!

Track 5. Now things are really getting interesting (for me). I LOVE the intro (is that bass saxophone?), it has a European folk-tune touch. The mad Derwish lines that follow add spice to the hot brooding bottom. This reminds me of Abou Kahlil, but the obvious lack of his instrument of choice tells me this is unlikely to be him. The alto player's tone reminds me of Threadgill. I would not want to put too much money on him here though.

Track 6. Bad sound! Woody Shaw? I have no idea what and who this may be besides that guess.

Number 7. 'nuff said!

Marvellous stuff! Of course the tenor is fabulous, but my love for this trumpet has grown and grown. The guy did an AWESOME version of I Remember Clifford with this very same band, that's just that: AWESOME. I hope the rest of the leader's Impulse albums finally see the day of light on shiny CDs. A Golden whistle has blown and a start has been made.

Track 8. Woa, who bought a soundblaster with extra heavy-duty bass-reflex supadupalow blow here?! Sure sounds very modern. This track only makes clear that there is a lot out there I don't know nothing about. I like this alto quite a bit. The setting is a bit 'unsettling' for me. It all sounds a bit 'overproduced' and that doesn't fit with the hard working, tough tone of the alto one bit IMO. Very nice alto, so-so setting.

Track 9. This starts off a bit too far on the light side of things for me, so it might as well be Tyner. But it's not. This does get more interesting during the solo passage, but the memory of the all too cute intro spoils a lot for me. Those very very ring ring ringing doorbells, sound like it may be Ayers, if this is indeed him, I'd take a wild, wild guess and go for that Wilson album on BN, Something Personal sure is a title that fits with this. Never heard the album.

Track 10. That's more like it! This is FUN! DANCE! Reminds me a lot of later era Rahsaan. Very agile player, I like this a lot, but haven't got a clue who's playing (sadly so...).

Track 11. Nature Boy. Is this Abbey Lincoln? The setting of the mood is very nicely done. The insecure flute chirps add a nice touch to the song, which is usually brought in a more in your face way. It is also rather fairy tale like, which is in coherence with the lyrics of course.

Track 12. McCoy Tyner. I have this somewhere on LP, but that is not this particular version I believe. Nice, a bit too bombastic at times, but that's Tyner for ya; a bit off during the solos (the flute is a real relaxing treat after the tenor, phew!). Not great, but nice and not something I am in the mood for at every time of the day nor every day of the year. I have found Tyner's music to be rather tiring at times (it's okay now though).

[couw]

Forgot to add: THANK YOU JIM for a very nice disk. The above critique may look harsh at times, but I really did enjoy playing this one very much.

[randyhersom]

My second shot on 1-3 was closer, but not quite right.

[Bright Moments]

add my congrats as well jim! since you won't be sleeping you can listen to more jazz!

i really enjoyed the discs , but haven't a clue as to what's what!

thanks for putting it together. B)

Edited March 11, 2004 by Evan

[couw]

me again!

Track 9: I was looking at that list of conns a while ago and did some background fun-browsing on the ones I didn't have. The combination of piano and vibes struck me. The track included fits with the album title and that's how I got there. I see I am not alone in my guess and found an online sample that sez

[couw]

My second shot on 1-3 was closer, but not quite right.

that track fooled me! I was sure this was the guy you originally pointed to. Seems you are right with this guess. Track 1 of that album the online sample tells me.

[couw]

and one more again!

I did some googling on track 1, and found it. Looks like an interesting album.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

Gosh this is a tough one. I have yet to spin up disc two and suppose that might be another thread all together. As it happens upon third listen:

Track 1- Has a reminiscence of 90's New York to it. A bit of that New York Composers Orchestra style. Ehrlich w/ Art Baron (don't think it's Ray Anderson although the end solo is his tone, eh?) and Don Byron? Sounds like it might be the drummers date. I'd love to know who that is. Vibes could be Bill Ware? Gotta be a Byron date but no clues as he's not someone I listen to much at all. This picks right up where BFT #7 left off...nice opener!!

Track 2- Electric bass sounds kind of little. Gets into a revved up Monk line. It's the alto date? No guesses at all here. Great tune though has that Blue Note / 90's Young Lions feel to it like a Sherman Irby cut. Man I can smell big mamma's biscuits from here. This might be a Wynton disciple?? The piano is fantastic. This is a keeper despite that pewny bass. But now I hear LP tix so what I say is moot.

Track 3- No idea but a nice segue w/ the horns from the previous as it's tuff to go from a grand to a b3. Absolutley no idea of this light latin romp. Just a little grease here although the soloist really wants to make it soulful. Man the tumpeter plays nice but needed to lay out. It's lke when Jerome Richardson's flute comes in on those fryolator LockJaw / Scott sides.

Now this is one time I wish old Sherman Irby would have recorded with Patton. Why the hell did Blue Note not do that!??

Track 4- Another nice seg here w/ the keybs. This is nice with that bit of Brasileyo. Scatting when you imagine the singer on the beach in a Rio thong doesn't bother me as much. I like the facsimile percussion drive here. Guitar as berimbau? Synth cuixa. Great tune!!!!

Track 5- Just when I was complimenting you on this segue-licousness you got going. You got into some noho-street-party-show-us-your-bris-and-we'll-toss-you-some-beads. Could this be that Bernstein disc w/ Rivers? but "cant" imagine that since I hear no trumpet?

Track 6- Another with that 90's young lion sound. Like those Blue Notes that came out in the late 90's. Another good track but the soprano has me clueless.

Track 7- This has that Irby rhythm to it but not him. Live cut is mixed weird as the drummer is more on top and they put the pillow over the bell instead. ?

Track 8- Sounds so like Ervin, don't it? I expected to hear a little "skoochee, skootchee" but this is too new. Another Wynton crew piece. Nicely done up and really makes that last one sound in need.

Track 9- A beauty.

Track 10- That sound again. My CD player did not like finding this cut.

Kind of bright with a bit of "pressure sensitive" underneath. Pulses right along with some tasty bari (?). Who is new that plays that.

Track 11- "Nature Boy" would probably reveal about a thousand entries at AMG so I won't even guess cause it's not any vocalist i have heard.

Track 12- Nice closer I see by the blinking light. Absolutely no clue again.

Can't wait to get educated here as I bet a bunch will be revealed in the course of discussion. Thanks Jim, this is going into my little BFT case after a few more plays!...now go spin that Diaper Genie will ya.

Edited March 12, 2004 by Man with the Golden Arm