Clifford Brown With Strings

[Late]

I love Clifford Brown's playing on this album — a perfect balance between melody and embellishment. (And always in tune!) But Neal Hefti's arrangements? They seem heavy-handed at times ... and almost always the same tempo, which can get tedious if you listen to the album straight through. Anyone here feel the same ... or differently? What arranger would you have liked to hear instead? And ... favorite track? "Where Or When" is the highlight for me.

[JSngry]

Robert Farnon, perhaps? Or was this done before he hit his stride? Probably not in the mix for this A&R world, tho?

I hear you about Hefti...and not just on this record, and not just with strings...he's far from an "automatic" for me. But when he was good, he was very good!

Really, though, Nelson Riddle.

[Late]

6 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Really, though, Nelson Riddle.

That's a good call. This is 1955. Who else?

So much of Brown's playing here ... Lee Morgan must've listened very closely. And many, many spins.

[Rooster_Ties]

What about William Rosso?

I think(?) I only really know him from An Image: Lee Konitz with Strings — recorded in early 1958.

[Quasimado]

What this album really needed was for Clifford to take solo choruses - his playing, exquisite as it is, is limited to "melody and embellishment", yet he was one of the great improvisors!

More Clifford would certainly have relieved the "tedium" of Hefti's charts.

Seems like a lost opportunity to me ...

[Late]

1 hour ago, Quasimado said:

What this album really needed was for Clifford to take solo choruses - his playing, exquisite as it is, is limited to "melody and embellishment", yet he was one of the great improvisors!

It's true that the album is somewhat weighted to the "polite" side, perhaps in the hope of attracting listeners who wouldn't otherwise purchase a "jazz" album. But, yes, it would've been great to hear Brown let go for a few choruses! Still, what he does do within the constraints of the recording date ...

And that sound!

[Milestones]

I like "What's New?" and "Embraceable You."

[Teasing the Korean]

15 hours ago, Late said:

That's a good call. This is 1955. Who else?

I nominate Les Baxter.  Listen to his foreboding version of "Poinciana," in which the major-key melody is harmonized in the relative minor.

Of course, if Baxter had spent his time arranging jazz albums, we might not have gotten all of his wonderful exotica LPs and AIP film scores, so it all worked out for the better.

 

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Teasing the Korean

[Teasing the Korean]

12 hours ago, Late said:

It's true that the album is somewhat weighted to the "polite" side, perhaps in the hope of attracting listeners who wouldn't otherwise purchase a "jazz" album.

Wasn't this kind of the point of most "with strings" albums?  Polite background ambiance for cocktails, conversation, and coitus?  

[Peter Friedman]

This was never an album that had much appeal for me. As has been said, too polite and at times tedious.

[Teasing the Korean]

45 minutes ago, Peter Friedman said:

This was never an album that had much appeal for me. As has been said, too polite and at times tedious.

Politeness and elegance are virtues!  Tedium, not so much.

[JSngry]

Too bad Bob Freedman wasn't around at the time.

Then again, maybe Brownie wasn't ready to go there...

 

[Teasing the Korean]

Pete Rugolo and Russ Garcia would have been good choices.

[JSngry]

Hell, Gil Evans!

[Rooster_Ties]

2 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Wasn't this kind of the point of most "with strings" albums?  Polite background ambiance for cocktails, conversation, and coitus?  

True! But my example with William Rosso and Lee Konitz, wasn’t all polite — or at least not this semi-monstrous 15-minute track.

 

[ghost of miles]

Bob Graettinger.  (I keed, I keed!!)

[JSngry]

 

53 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

True! But my example with William Rosso and Lee Konitz, wasn’t all polite — or at least not this semi-monstrous 15-minute track.

 

dude, you owe it to yourself to at some point interact with the Mosaic set of the Russo/Holman Kenton charts.

Russo was never one to underwrite, even by implication, but when it was good (and it often enough was) it was very good.

[Milestones]

I get that people find it polite and tedious.  But it is Clifford Brown, after all!  Despite his early death, he does have a pretty impressive body of work.  Even so, one has to treasure every note he played.

 

[danasgoodstuff]

Clifford with Strings is wonderful because of Clifford, the strings hardly matter.  But that Konitz piece posted above is something else, is that currently available somewhere?

[mjazzg]

I was just about to post the same about the Konitz.  Quick look on Discogs suggests not currently available but I've not looked elsewhere

[ghost of miles]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

 

dude, you owe it to yourself to at some point interact with the Mosaic set of the Russo/Holman Kenton charts.

Russo was never one to underwrite, even by implication, but when it was good (and it often enough was) it was very good.

*Very* underrated Mosaic set!  

10 minutes ago, danasgoodstuff said:

Clifford with Strings is wonderful because of Clifford, the strings hardly matter.  But that Konitz piece posted above is something else, is that currently available somewhere?

I have it as a part of this excellent two-CD Verve Konitz collection that also includes albums by Jimmy Giuffre and Ralph Burns--OOP but reasonably-priced used copies can be had:

Lee Konitz Meets Jimmy Giuffre

Always wanted Mosaic to do a Konitz Verve set.  They seem to have considered it at some point, but it never came to pass.

9 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

I was just about to post the same about the Konitz.  Quick look on Discogs suggests not currently available but I've not looked elsewhere

See Discogs listing above for the Konitz Verve Take Two collection (a great series in general). 

Here's the listing for the U.S. release as well:  Lee Konitz Meets Jimmy Giuffre

Edited October 22, 2021 by ghost of miles

[Teasing the Korean]

3 hours ago, danasgoodstuff said:

Clifford with Strings is wonderful because of Clifford, the strings hardly matter. 

Well, you have options to buy Clifford Brown albums without strings.  

The reason some of us like the with strings albums is because the soloist is placed in a different setting, and the strings may be the main attraction, depending on who the arranger is. 

The sad thing is that too many Jazz Guy with Strings albums have only adequate arrangements.  You rarely hear stuff that had much harmonic depth.  

I've always liked the Sonny Stitt with Ralph Burns album.  

Edited October 22, 2021 by Teasing the Korean

[Larry Kart]

41 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Well, you have options to buy Clifford Brown albums without strings.  

The reason some of us like the with strings albums is because the soloist is placed in a different setting, and the strings may be the main attraction, deepening on who the arranger is. 

The sad thing is that too many Jazz Guy with Strings albums have only adequate arrangements.  You rarely hear stuff that had much harmonic depth.  

I've always liked the Sonny Stitt with Ralph Burns album.  

Leaving aside Bill Russo's "An Image," which is really a work for Lee Konitz and string quartet, when it comes to supportive string writing for a soloist I've been enjoying Alan Broadbent's backing for Marian McPartland on her 1994 album "Silent Pool" (Concord).

[danasgoodstuff]

I have many Clifford Without Strings albums, and love pretty much everything he ever did.  And there are with strings albums where the strings are doing much more interesting things than here.  Art Pepper's Winter Moon for instance.  It's just that I love hearing Clifford play ballads so much that little else matters when I hear the album in question.

[Late]

7 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Wasn't this kind of the point ... [p]olite background ambiance for cocktails, conversation, and coitus?  

As long as the alliteration is maintained, then yes.

5 minutes ago, danasgoodstuff said:

I love hearing Clifford play ballads so much that little else matters when I hear the album in question.

Same. He was put (musically) into a tight constraint ... but what he did in that space! For me, Clifford Brown is the epitome of "articulate" when it comes to trumpet playing. Every idea already crystalized when it comes out of the bell.