Billy Eckstine

[Rabshakeh]

Surprised to find that we have no Eckstine thread. 

Where would one start with his work in the LP era?

[Gheorghe]

I´m a big fan of Billy Eckstine and my listening concentrates on the Savoy Double Album "Mr. B and the Band" and the Spotlite live album "Together". 

His voice , just wonderful, but as an instrument player I also need interesting arrangements and the legendary Band in the 40´s with all them incredible players and the fantastic arrangements by Tadd Dameron and others, that´s what I need as much as I need to hear Billy singing. 

Later, someone borrowed me some around 1960 albums also with Big Band, it´s still the magic voice, but the band does not sound as interesting as the 40´s bands, it sounds more like just for the session booked studio bands......, and that´s not really what I can enjoy. 

I´d wish to find a male singer who sings in that style. You have tons of female singers, but to find a good male singer who thinks like a musician, not only about his own voice, is difficult. 

[Jack Pine]

One of my favorite artists generally and rated #1 baritone in my book.

A few of my favorites:

'Billy's Eckstine's Imagination' 1958 (Pete Rugolo)

'No Cover, No Minimum' and 'Once More With Feeling' 1960 (Both with Billy May)

'Basie/Eckstine Inc.' 1959

I'd be interested to know more about how he was supposedly 'black balled' from the industry. This seems to be an oft told legend: photographed hugging a white fan- career put on the skids. I think this was in Miles' autobio and Frank Wess also talked about it in an interview.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Jack Pine

[JSngry]

There have also been several calls for a Billy Eckstine Mosaic set, an idea with which I am totally onboard with. The guy is in danger of being erased. That should not happen.

[Mark Stryker]

There really should be an Eckstine biography. That could be a helluva book. 

[Jack Pine]

51 minutes ago, JSngry said:

There have also been several calls for a Billy Eckstine Mosaic set, an idea with which I am totally onboard with. The guy is in danger of being erased. That should not happen.

I don't know how much this speaks for his popularity, but I sell a few arrangements through Hal Leo's self publishing outfit: 'I Want To Talk About You' is by far my biggest seller. I'm getting close to 10 sold in the past month, which is big numbers for me!

I agree though, he does seem in a way 'erased'.

[JSngry]

That tune is now popular because of Coltrane.

Everybody knows the melody, but how many people know the words?

42 minutes ago, Mark Stryker said:

There really should be an Eckstine biography. That could be a helluva book. 

billy eckstine biography - Jazz In Print - Periodicals, Books, Newspapers, etc... - organissimo forums 

[Big Beat Steve]

25 minutes ago, JSngry said:

That tune is now popular because of Coltrane.

Everybody knows the melody, but how many people know the words?

Don't know about the majority of others but I for one have known the Eckstine vocal version since my very early record buying/collecting days at age 15/16 as I had been given a 50s Guest Star compilation LP that had this Eckstine tune plus "Blowing The Blues Away" a.o. and one by Sarah Vaughn plus a few instrumentals by a bogus-named big band.
When I got my hands on the Swingtime ST 1015 LP in c. 1990 (and therefore a decent pressing of the tracks from the budget LP) these tunes stil sounded extremely familiar among the other "new" contents of the LP.

FWIW, Xanadu LP 207 has a May 1945 AFRS transcription version of "I Want To Talk About you".

Edited February 16, 2023 by Big Beat Steve

[jazzbo]

I'm not crazy for Eckstine, but I really like his Roulette sides.

[JSngry]

9 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Don't know about the majority of others but I for one have known the Eckstine vocal version since my very early record buying/collecting days at age 15/16 as I had been given a 50s Guest Star compilation LP that had this Eckstine tune plus "Blowing The Blues Away" a.o. and one by Sarah Vaughn plus a few instrumentals by a bogus-named big band.
When I got my hands on the Swingtime ST 1015 LP in c. 1990 (and therefore a decent pressing of the tracks form the budget LP) these tunes stil sounded extremely familiar among the other "new" contents of the LP.

You're an old guy who likes old music. As are many of us.

I guarantee you that "today's jazz musicians" (going back 20 or maybe more years) are people who don't know about Billy Eckstine. They do know Coltrane, though, and they do know his version(s) of it. Here is a song they should be singing to him:

Jack Pine - is your arrangement for vocal, or is it strictly instrumental.

 

[Chuck Nessa]

This 2 disc set covers 1947-1957. A highlight is the Metronome All-Stars date with Roy Eldridge, Kai Winding, John LaPorta, Warne Marsh, Lester Young, Terry Gibbs, Teddy Wilson, Billy Bauer, Eddie Safranski and Max Roach.

[Mark Stryker]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

That tune is now popular because of Coltrane.

Everybody knows the melody, but how many people know the words?

billy eckstine biography - Jazz In Print - Periodicals, Books, Newspapers, etc... - organissimo forums 

Thanks for the reminder. Obviously, that book was not on my radar and, just as obviously, I either missed for forgot about the thread from a decade ago.

[Jack Pine]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

You're an old guy who likes old music. As are many of us.

I guarantee you that "today's jazz musicians" (going back 20 or maybe more years) are people who don't know about Billy Eckstine. They do know Coltrane, though, and they do know his version(s) of it. Here is a song they should be singing to him:

Jack Pine - is your arrangement for vocal, or is it strictly instrumental.

 

Piano/Vocal.

Pardon the MIDI piano sound/timing:

 

[Big Beat Steve]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

You're an old guy who likes old music. As are many of us.

I guarantee you that "today's jazz musicians" (going back 20 or maybe more years) are people who don't know about Billy Eckstine. They do know Coltrane, though, and they do know his version(s) of it.

Of course ... My reply was directed primarily at this forum, of course. And I know I cannot escape the "old guy" status either in the long run.

Although I actually doubt that all that many who THEN listened to jazz (read: "then-current jazz") were really fully aware of Billy Eckstine and his output in 1975 or 76 when I got hold of that record I mentioned. His recording companion Sarah Vaughn - yes, likely. But him? Not quite so sure.

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, Jack Pine said:

Piano/Vocal.

Pardon the MIDI piano sound/timing:

 

Good to know. Maybe it will get people to play the right opening note!

[Jack Pine]

I hope it might! I can't deny I reach for that Bb myself sometimes.

 

[Gheorghe]

16 hours ago, Mark Stryker said:

There really should be an Eckstine biography. That could be a helluva book. 

There is one. I just read it again recently. But I must admit I was only interested in the time with the legendary Big Band. Later, the more commercial outputs on MGM or how that label was named, didn´t interest me as much. 

 

14 hours ago, Jack Pine said:

Piano/Vocal.

Pardon the MIDI piano sound/timing:

 

Well it seems that this sheet (I can read only the melody line ) is very very much basic, I mean it´s supposed to be not as straight and simple rhytmically , listen to the original vocal version of Mr.B and the Band, and of course to the Coltrane version. Though I can´t read that lower line with the written out chords, it seems it was written more for beginners. But you have to "live" that tune, of course like on all ballads, at least have an idea of how the lyrics go, and get your own very individual way of playing it . Ballads that´s the thing, you have to get inside the meaning, the mood of that ballad. 

I wanted to suggest it when a set-list was made before a gig, but the leader said "we allready have an E-flat ballad (These Foolish Things), so maybe the next time. But we don´t worry, there is so many ballads to play. 

 

[Jack Pine]

4 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

Well it seems that this sheet (I can read only the melody line ) is very very much basic, I mean it´s supposed to be not as straight and simple rhytmically , listen to the original vocal version of Mr.B and the Band, and of course to the Coltrane version. Though I can´t read that lower line with the written out chords, it seems it was written more for beginners. But you have to "live" that tune, of course like on all ballads, at least have an idea of how the lyrics go, and get your own very individual way of playing it . Ballads that´s the thing, you have to get inside the meaning, the mood of that ballad. 

 

 

Indeed, it is intended for beginner/intermediate players.

[JSngry]

That record with Basie is STRONG. More flava than one might expect, fully frontally flatbed. 

Another record of the pairing that focused on ballads/standards.. lost opportunity... 

[JSngry]

This is a wonderful record too 

[mikeweil]

As we have discussed elsewhere, Eckstine definitely would have deserved the Mosaic treatment. They did Sarah and Dinah - why not him?

[JSngry]

They also did Mildred Bailey. Peggy Lee, and June Christy.

And The Four Fucking Freshmen 

[medjuck]

David Hajdu has an essay in which he suggests that Eckstine was sort of black-listed  because of his attractiveness to to  young white girls.  I like Hajdu but he's not one to let nuance get in the way of a good story.  

 

 

[HutchFan]

27 minutes ago, medjuck said:

David Hajdu has an essay in which he suggests that Eckstine was sort of black-listed  because of his attractiveness to to  young white girls.  I like Hajdu but he's not one to let nuance get in the way of a good story.  

Wasn't (at least some of) that "backlash" in response to a photo in Life (or some other, similar nationwide magazine) in which a (white) woman is shown affectionately touching Eckstine on the arm? No kissing. Just a bit of eyes and touching his sleeved arm.

Any sort of blowback from THAT is ridiculous. But I don't have any trouble believing that it happened. 

[Larry Kart]

3 hours ago, JSngry said:

They also did Mildred Bailey. Peggy Lee, and June Christy.

And The Four Fucking Freshmen 

When Eckstine's vibrato got REAL wide in later years I couldn't take it.