Sonny Rollins East Broadway Rundown - Distortion on CD?

[clifford_thornton]

5 hours ago, felser said:

Strangely, this album was my introduction to Rollins in the early 70's.  I do like Garrison/Elvin on it, agree that Sonny seems to meander a lot, but also agree that I like the meandering, though I wondered at the time what the big deal about Rollins was.  I found that out when I soon after experienced his masterpieces like 'Saxophone Colossus' and 'Newk's Time'.

this was my experience too, albeit maybe 25 years later. I still enjoy EBRD a lot.

[JSngry]

It's a wack record. The DB review said something like it's just one big question mark. And it is. But I'm ok with that. Questions need to be asked, especially if there's no ready answer. 

And If session tapes still exist... 

[AllenLowe]

5 hours ago, JSngry said:

Or Alfie!!!! 

Now that's a record, a work of genius. Just as an aside, Sonny told me he played a Buescher tenor on that, and it was his absolutely favorite horn ever, but he had to give it up because he had so much trouble playing it in tune.

[Teasing the Korean]

1 hour ago, AllenLowe said:

Now that's a record, a work of genius. 

Especially considering Oliver Nelson's participation.

[AllenLowe]

I just want to add a note about my complaint that Sonny, on some of those EBR cuts, sounds meandering. Sonny is particularly interesting in this way - most horn players, feeling uninspired, will just break through everything and do it - I mean, if I am having a bad night I will just start with what I know and see if I can add to it - and even if I don't, truthfully, audiences usually don't realize it. But I am on an entirely different level altogether.

Sonny is different; if he is having trouble finding what he is looking for, he will pause as though waiting it out. One of the most interesting things about him at his best is that he - like Monk for example - always sounds like he is really working and thinking and composing in real time (as Paul Bley called improvisation). Sonny doesn't coast, he's either got it or he doesn't. And when he doesn't, you can usually tell. He doesn't put it out there unless he is really feeling it. and his greatness has to do with the fact that, at least until maybe 1966, he felt it more often than not. Jazz is a music that eats itself alive, so quickly does it consume its own ideas, new and old. So, we should be grateful that Sonny exists, but we should also be aware that he is often telling us, in his own private way, that he is figuratively on pause until something new comes to mind and allows him to move forward. I honestly think that he was not altogether comfortable playing in an "open" manner, and his hesitation in these solos shows this.

Edited September 11, 2023 by AllenLowe

[JSngry]

East Broadway Rundown, the tune, is just a blues. 

I think he was more uncomfortable with life in general. How long after this was it that he quit altogether? 

[AllenLowe]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

East Broadway Rundown, the tune, is just a blues. 

I think he was more uncomfortable with life in general. How long after this was it that he quit altogether? 

probably around this time - but that sabbatical itself was probably related to post-Coltrane insecurity. And truthfully, after 1968 he was never the same. I am in a minority here, but to me he spent the rest of his musical career adrift; became very famous, but musically nothing was happening except in brief, disconnected spurts that showed the old flame, but always flickered out. 

[JSngry]

You're probably in the majority here actually...and I find that to be a bit (or more) of a gross oversimplification. Very 20th Century thinking, the rush to close the door and have a soundbite. 

I think he was disenchanted with the state of the world in general more than anything about Coltrane. I don't think he was that myopic about his life. 

After his last return, he played almost 50 years uninterrupted. That's hardly "adrift". And between the records and the bootlegs, there is more than a little great playing to be had. There's also plenty of unsatisfying work as well, but "adrift" is in no way accurate. 

Time for a new narrative, one based on specifics instead of hasty, overly simplified generalizations.  

[AllenLowe]

On 9/11/2023 at 2:48 PM, JSngry said:

You're probably in the majority here actually...and I find that to be a bit (or more) of a gross oversimplification. Very 20th Century thinking, the rush to close the door and have a soundbite. 

I think he was disenchanted with the state of the world in general more than anything about Coltrane. I don't think he was that myopic about his life. 

After his last return, he played almost 50 years uninterrupted. That's hardly "adrift". And between the records and the bootlegs, there is more than a little great playing to be had. There's also plenty of unsatisfying work as well, but "adrift" is in no way accurate. 

Time for a new narrative, one based on specifics instead of hasty, overly simplified generalizations.  

well, ask Larry Kart what he thinks of late Sonny. Nothing "20th century" about my observation, or oversimplified - just the opposite. I probably saw him perform 5 times in that period (always hoping he would unload that awful rhythm section) and have listened to countless live videos. This was based on observation and hours of listening. Nothing "soundbite" about it. I find Sonny to be the most frustrating performer of my lifetime.

[JSngry]

Yes, I know. Larry and I have debated the issue at length. We simply disagree.

"Frustration" about people like Sonny, Art Pepper, Miles, etc.srems to be rooted in the players not doing what we think they should be doing. I tend more towards trying to understand why they are doing it and going from there.

In Sonny's case, there's a lot of reasons, a lot of struggles, and a lot of triumphs as well.

I'll be writing an ongoing review of every one of his Milestone records here, in chronological order. At least one of them is a near-total disaster, some are indeed frustrating, a lot have one or two "why couldn't the whole record be like this?" cuts, and a few are true delights. 

I've decided to "show my work" about all this, in detail. No minds will be changed, I'm sure, but I'm tired of this sweeping dismissal with equally sweeping generalizations. 

[relyles]

54 minutes ago, JSngry said:

I'll be writing an ongoing review of every one of his Milestone records here, in chronological order. At least one of them is a near-total disaster, some are indeed frustrating, a lot have one or two "why couldn't the whole record be like this?" cuts, and a few are true delights. 

I've decided to "show my work" about all this, in detail. No minds will be changed, I'm sure, but I'm tired of this sweeping dismissal with equally sweeping generalizations. 

I will be very interested in reading your impressions on those recordings. I have many of them in my collection. I might just listen to each as you share your work.

[JSngry]

There's a lot of them, so this will be an ongoing project. But I have most of them, often bought when released. Nobody knows the frustration better than I. 

But I keep returning to them because at the end of the day, nobody else played like this, and although there may be misfires and odd decisions along the way, there are no lies told on any of them. And imo, there are still profundities revealed every step of the way. 

For that, my gratitude far exceeds my frustration. 

[Teasing the Korean]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

I'll be writing an ongoing review of every one of his Milestone records here, in chronological order.

I have a reasonable amount of Sonny Rollins on LP and CD, but I just realized that I don't have anything after East Broadway.

[JSngry]

Some people would advise you to quit while you're ahead, LOL.

Me, I'll tell you to proceed with caution, and for a lot of it to be content with playlists and such. But gems do exist, as do some full records that hold up quite well over repeated listenings. At least they have for me. 

We'll get to all that in due course. Please be patient. ☺️

[Eric]

3 hours ago, relyles said:

I will be very interested in reading your impressions on those recordings. I have many of them in my collection. I might just listen to each as you share your work.

Likewise!

[HutchFan]

5 hours ago, JSngry said:

I'll be writing an ongoing review of every one of his Milestone records here, in chronological order. At least one of them is a near-total disaster, some are indeed frustrating, a lot have one or two "why couldn't the whole record be like this?" cuts, and a few are true delights. 

I've decided to "show my work" about all this, in detail. No minds will be changed, I'm sure, but I'm tired of this sweeping dismissal with equally sweeping generalizations. 

This is great news, Jim.  I will definitely be reading -- and listening -- along with you. 

 

[AllenLowe]

4 hours ago, JSngry said:

There's a lot of them, so this will be an ongoing project. But I have most of them, often bought when released. Nobody knows the frustration better than I. 

But I keep returning to them because at the end of the day, nobody else played like this, and although there may be misfires and odd decisions along the way, there are no lies told on any of them. And imo, there are still profundities revealed every step of the way. 

For that, my gratitude far exceeds my frustration. 

I too look forward to reading your reviews, which I suspect will be more enlightening than the actual music.

[JSngry]

3 minutes ago, AllenLowe said:

I too look forward to reading your reviews, which I suspect will be more enlightening than the actual music.

If that were possible, I should be playing it, not writing about it.

But I cannot play like even the most uninspired/insecure/whatever Sonny Rollins. If I could, I could get an agent and have a significant but fraudulent career. Create a narrative and appeal to the easily duped. There's definitely a market for that these days.

Hey that's my retirement project!!! 

[JSngry]

On 9/8/2023 at 9:59 AM, Teasing the Korean said:

When you receive it, can you confirm if it has the same distortion?

It does not. Clear as a bell! 

[clifford_thornton]

10 hours ago, JSngry said:

There's a lot of them, so this will be an ongoing project. But I have most of them, often bought when released. Nobody knows the frustration better than I. 

But I keep returning to them because at the end of the day, nobody else played like this, and although there may be misfires and odd decisions along the way, there are no lies told on any of them. And imo, there are still profundities revealed every step of the way. 

For that, my gratitude far exceeds my frustration. 

the only one of the Milestones I have is Sonny Rollins In Japan (actually the Victor pressing). I've listened to a few others but did not end up purchasing them. In Japan is fun.

[JSngry]

It's not a Milestone. Never was. But it is a really good one, especially the LP version. The best/most full document of the David Lee band which was mighty indeed. And seeing them is even better. You can see what Sonny is getting from them in terms of momentum and how he gives it back. That's not always apparent from just the audio, it's a very physical thing. 

 

[JSngry]

Add Mtume in there and it gets even more physical. Much more. In Japan is a very physical record, but you can't see it, you can "only"  hear it. 

But that's for later, in the upcoming Milestone thread 

[Mark Stryker]

Looking forward to Jim's Milestone survey!

Meantime, here's the outline of a related Sonny Rollins essay I'm going to write. I've been toying with a Sonny Rollins Top 10 and Bonus Tracks list for a while now, including official releases and unauthorized material from a variety of sources. Not everything is set in stone, but this is my current thinking. YMMV and all the other caveats apply. 

Sonny Rollins: A Personal Top 10 and Bonus Tracks.     1.    A Night at the Village Vanguard, 1957 (Blue Note) 2.    Paris concert, 11/4/65 3.    The Standard Sonny Rollins, 1964 (RCA) 4.    Alfie, 1966 (Impulse) 5.    Newk’s Time, 1957 (Blue Note) 6.    The Sound of Sonny, 1957 (Riverside) 7.    Saxophone Colossus, 1956 (Prestige) 8.    Now’s The Time, 1964 (RCA) 9.    Newport Jazz Festival, 7/7/63   10.  Falling in Love with Jazz, 1989. (Milestone)   Bonus Tracks in chronological order 1.    There’s No Business Like Show Business (Worktime), 1955 (Prestige) 2.    Misterioso (Sonny Rollins Vol. 2), 1957 (Blue Note) 3.    Freedom Suite (Freedom Suite), 1958 (Riverside) 4.    If Ever I Would Leave You (What’s New), 1962 (RCA) 5.    Lover, Village Gate, 7/28/62 6.    Oleo, Paris, 10/31/65 7.    Three Little Words, Copenhagen concert, 9/6/68  8.    First Moves (The Cutting Edge), 1974 (Milestone) 9.    Best Wishes (Road Shows Vol. 1), 1986 (Milestone) 10.  Darn that Dream (Old Flames), 1993 (Milestone)

Edited September 16, 2023 by Mark Stryker

[Teasing the Korean]

20 hours ago, JSngry said:

It does not. Clear as a bell! 

Thanks!  I'll add that to my list!

[JSngry]

Absolutely. That first issue was a disgrace.