Different Piano Comping Styles for Different Instrument Configurations

[Teasing the Korean]

I have a gig coming up with Latin percussion, vibes, and acoustic bass. 

Given the percussive qualities of instruments, I find that minimal piano comping works best under vibes solos.  I generally play minimalist chords in a trombone section register.  In fact, sometimes I play a maraca with my right hand comp only with my left.  I ask myself if I am just being lazy, but it seems to serve the music well.  I like to provide a harmonic structure without getting in the way of everything else.

 

[jazzbo]

Makes sense to me. When I was performing as a drummer I was always thinking of accompaniment and style for each number.

[JSngry]

No montunos? 

[Teasing the Korean]

1 minute ago, JSngry said:

No montunos? 

In a few places.  Maybe I just like the space provided by minimal piano.

This will be my first gig in nearly 5 years, incidentally.

[JSngry]

No need for a montuno of it's not that type of music.

If it's not, do you save them for slower tempos? I think that a montuno on a ballad/bolero can be very sexy if it's all the way in the pocket!

Good luck on the gig., Have fun with it! 

[Teasing the Korean]

11 minutes ago, JSngry said:

No need for a montuno of it's not that type of music.

If it's not, do you save them for slower tempos? I think that a montuno on a ballad/bolero can be very sexy if it's all the way in the pocket!

Good luck on the gig., Have fun with it! 

Thanks!  We're doing Cal Tjader's "Leyte" from the Soul Sauce album, and doing the same arrangement, albeit slightly slower, so I'm doing a montuno on that on the A sections.  I'm playing one in an uptempo tune also.

[sgcim]

On 9/23/2023 at 12:50 PM, Teasing the Korean said:

I have a gig coming up with Latin percussion, vibes, and acoustic bass. 

Given the percussive qualities of instruments, I find that minimal piano comping works best under vibes solos.  I generally play minimalist chords in a trombone section register.  In fact, sometimes I play a maraca with my right hand comp only with my left.  I ask myself if I am just being lazy, but it seems to serve the music well.  I like to provide a harmonic structure without getting in the way of everything else.

 

Yes, the guitar is a percussive instrument too, and the piano tends to eat up all the sound if you let it sustain too much. Listen to how Eddie Costa comped for Tal Farlow; short, percussive stabs that bring out sound of the guitar. It's also good to stay out of the register that the vibes are playing in; that really gets in the way.

[Teasing the Korean]

5 minutes ago, sgcim said:

It's also good to stay out of the register that the vibes are playing in; that really gets in the way.

Yeah, that's what I'm generally doing.  

[Gheorghe]

I must admit I never worked with a vibe player. The most popular group featuring fantastic vibes here in Viena was "Together" with the great vibist and drummer Tom Henkes. They played pianoless, they had vibes, guitar, acoustic bass, drums, percussion. So this was pianoless.

Otherwise I don´t have very much vibe stuff. I have Bags, Hutch a lot of. 

With Bags I think about Monk, John Lewis. Since Monk is nearer to my musical conception, I´d play more "Monkish" comping which I do anyway. Or, less chords, more "voicings", and stay more outta way...., well I think I couldn´t plan it. Since I mostly play "on call" I´d go up on stage and feel from what´s happenin´ what might be the best I can do to give support, inspiration and not get into their way. That´s hard to give a constructive answer, huh ? I might hear the stuff or hear what the boys tell me what kinda conception they want and try to fit in as good as I could. Anyway, if they chose me, they might have a plan what they want me to do and why they want exactly me......

[Teasing the Korean]

2 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

Otherwise I don´t have very much vibe stuff.

Vibes are my all-time favorite instrument and, in my opinion, the definitive 20th century instrument.

I love the way Carl Stalling and Bernard Herrmann used vibes on the fast setting.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Teasing the Korean

[mikeweil]

I think not getting in the way of the others and play minimalistic is perfect for the "benefit of the band", as Baby Dodds called it. Looks like you know what to play not.

"The definitive 20th century instrument" - now that's a statement! Please tape the gig and send me a copy. I am seriously curious.

[Teasing the Korean]

9 minutes ago, mikeweil said:

"The definitive 20th century instrument" - now that's a statement! 

Think about it:

Two of the most significant strains of 20th century artistic expression were modernism and primitivism.  The vibes convey both.  They are a percussive mallet instrument, but also electric and made of metal.  They conveyed primitivism in exotica settings, and they conveyed futurism when used by Herrmann, Stallings, or Esquivel.  No other instrument comes close to what the vibes communicated in the 20th century.  

[sgcim]

10 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Think about it:

Two of the most significant strains of 20th century artistic expression were modernism and primitivism.  The vibes convey both.  They are a percussive mallet instrument, but also electric and made of metal.  They conveyed primitivism in exotica settings, and they conveyed futurism when used by Herrmann, Stallings, or Esquivel.  No other instrument comes close to what the vibes communicated in the 20th century.  

Yea, the vibes entered the 20th Century music scene big time when I was in Uni. Composers were writing chamber music,and concertos for it left and right.

Herrmann used it abundantly in the TZ in tiny groups to play his minor major7th add 9 chords to create that futuristic mood where you knew things were going to turn into futuristic nightmares for someone.

I was surprised to learn that Adrian Rollini used the four mallet approach years before Gary Burton did.

[GA Russell]

Sounds terrific, TTK!

[Gheorghe]

On 9/26/2023 at 2:00 PM, Teasing the Korean said:

Vibes are my all-time favorite instrument and, in my opinion, the definitive 20th century instrument.

I love the way Carl Stalling and Bernard Herrmann used vibes on the fast setting.

Oh I didn´t really realize that. Most of my live was in the 20th century, but I was not aware that the vibes was the typical 20th century instrument. I think, the vibe hype here in Europe startet with the Hamp-hype, when the Generation before me went nuts when Hamp did his thing in his concerts. 

The first thing I heard a vibe I think was Hamp´s version of "Stardust". Well I dug it, even or because the instrument sounded funny to me. But as I said, the vibe players I really listened to or bought the one or other record of them was Bags , Bobby Hutcherson, oh yeah and I dug Teddy Charles with his interesting stuff on that Miles-Mingus collaboration or on some Prestige dates. 

But as a player......I really got to ask my fellow musicians, who are professors at the famous MUK here in Viena , if there is any student who chose vibes as his instrument. On the other hand it must be a hard job to carry that instrument around. 
I remember that in the 70´s with that "world music voque" some guys took Marimba, but I don´t like the Marimba as much as I like a good vibe solo. A friend of mine who is a good drummer had switched mostly to "marimba" for a group that says that it is "Ethno Jazz".....

[Teasing the Korean]

4 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

Oh I didn´t really realize that. Most of my live was in the 20th century, but I was not aware that the vibes was the typical 20th century instrument.

Oh, not at all typical, but definitive, as I posted above: 

Two of the most significant strains of 20th century artistic expression were modernism and primitivism.  The vibes convey both.  They are a percussive mallet instrument, but also electric and made of metal.  They conveyed primitivism in exotica settings, and they conveyed futurism when used by Herrmann, Stallings, or Esquivel.  No other instrument comes close to what the vibes communicated in the 20th century.  

[mikeweil]

 Besides that, there are excellent vibes players in Austria. Try to catch a gig by Flip Philipp.

[Niko]

4 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Oh, not at all typical, but definitive, as I posted above: 

Two of the most significant strains of 20th century artistic expression were modernism and primitivism.  The vibes convey both.  They are a percussive mallet instrument, but also electric and made of metal.  They conveyed primitivism in exotica settings, and they conveyed futurism when used by Herrmann, Stallings, or Esquivel.  No other instrument comes close to what the vibes communicated in the 20th century.  

I'd say the electric guitar does come close

[Teasing the Korean]

7 minutes ago, Niko said:

I'd say the electric guitar does come close

Yes, many would suggest the electric guitar as a candidate.

[Gheorghe]

19 hours ago, mikeweil said:

 Besides that, there are excellent vibes players in Austria. Try to catch a gig by Flip Philipp.

That´s true ! 

And the first vibe player I really was impressed of was our Tom Henkes. He is also a great drummer and yeah I played with him but as drummer. 

[Gheorghe]

On 9/23/2023 at 6:50 PM, Teasing the Korean said:

I have a gig coming up with Latin percussion, vibes, and acoustic bass. 

 

 

 

And....how was the gig ???

[sgcim]

I've been listening to the way Herbie Hancock comped for Wes Montgomery on one of Wes' albums, and the combination of Herbie's imaginative comping ideas, and Wes' straight ahead melodic genius was probably one of the greatest groups in jazz. Add Ron Carter's rock solid bass, and Grady Tate's tasteful groove, and you've got a perfectly balanced group.

[Gheorghe]

On 10/27/2023 at 5:35 AM, sgcim said:

I've been listening to the way Herbie Hancock comped for Wes Montgomery on one of Wes' albums, and the combination of Herbie's imaginative comping ideas, and Wes' straight ahead melodic genius was probably one of the greatest groups in jazz. Add Ron Carter's rock solid bass, and Grady Tate's tasteful groove, and you've got a perfectly balanced group.

Yeah, Herbie is the best example !!!

But to repeat my question: How was  the gig mentioned in the first posting ? Or didn´t it happen ? 

[sgcim]

On 10/28/2023 at 2:16 AM, Gheorghe said:

Yeah, Herbie is the best example !!!

But to repeat my question: How was  the gig mentioned in the first posting ? Or didn´t it happen ? 

It probably never existed in the first place. Just the deranged delusions of another schizophrenic cat owner...

[JSngry]

These cats will not be owned: