Options for accessing audio from large digital music collections.

[JSngry]

So, solid state drives have advanced to the point where they are truly stable for large amounts of data? It's been 5+ years since that was a question for me. That was when "conventional wisdom" was that they were great for a boot drive and program files but not so much for data. They have since grown up? 

[rostasi]

I haven’t moved forward on SSDs for that reason … plus cost, years ago …
but, also, that SSD circuits work on the capacitors and power supplies,
which can fail and corrupt your data during a power surge or failure,
so that’s why I haven’t yet gone over to them. Even as a boot,
what I’ve used for the last decade is so quick - on the rare times I’ve
needed to reboot - that it’s kind of a non-issue for me.

[JSngry]

9 minutes ago, rostasi said:

I haven’t moved forward on SSDs for that reason … plus cost, years ago …
but, also, that SSD circuits work on the capacitors and power supplies,
which can fail and corrupt your data during a power surge or failure,
so that’s why I haven’t yet gone over to them. Even as a boot,
what I’ve used for the last decade is so quick - on the rare times I’ve
needed to reboot - that it’s kind of a non-issue for me.

Thanks.

Our current PC was built for us by our daughter's then boyfriend, who was a real PC virtuoso. Great value and it has functioned flawlessly since Day 1. He was adamant about the SSD boot/program files drive and just as adamant against using it as a data drive for precisely the reasons you mention. But I see people on here using them for buttload of data, so I was wondering if those days were over. 

[Stompin at the Savoy]

The thing is whatever music drive you decide on, you kind of need at least two of them.  Every once in a while you copy the current drive to its backup, then take the backup offline and store it away somewhere.  Otherwise if one day your active drive fails, you are really up a creek.  Or you can use a pc hard drive as a backup but that is an active drive and can fail.  So you kind of need an extra drive.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Stompin at the Savoy

[rostasi]

16 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Thanks.

Our current PC was built for us by our daughter's then boyfriend, who was a real PC virtuoso. Great value and it has functioned flawlessly since Day 1. He was adamant about the SSD boot/program files drive and just as adamant against using it as a data drive for precisely the reasons you mention. But I see people on here using them for buttload of data, so I was wondering if those days were over. 

There's also a new(ish) kind of SSD (well, to me, anyway)
that's shaped like a stick of gum that's supposed to be better,
but that's all I know until the time comes when I need to know.

[mjzee]

I migrated to SSDs when I found EHDs failing sooner than before.  I had a 4 TB Western Digital EHD fail in less than a year.  Sure there's a warranty, but that's not the point: I buy hardware to be dependable.  As someone wrote in an Amazon comment, EHDs are mechanical devices and will fail - the question simply is when.  So far, I've had no problem with SSDs.  Of course, I have a regular backup schedule.

Because an SSD is essentially just a chip, there can be innovative ways of using them.  For example, I've been intrigued by this, currently $299.99 on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Sonnet-Echo-20-Thunderbolt-SuperDock/dp/B0C9VTDXY6/ref=sr_1_1?crid=QR1G3ZHRPB3N&keywords=Sonnet+Echo+20+Thunderbolt+4+SuperDock&qid=1702395646&s=electronics&sprefix=sonnet+echo+20+thunderbolt+4+superdock%2Celectronics%2C106&sr=1-1&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.17d9e15d-4e43-4581-b373-0e5c1a776d5d

It's an enclosure for an internal SSD card (card not included) built into a multi-purpose dock; primarily intended for laptop users.  I don't own it.

[Coda]

I work for Western Digital and do not recommend their products.   Samsung makes the best SSD drives.   SSD drives can still fail so it's always good practice to maintain a copy in the cloud.    If you're on a windows machine you could use OneDrive as a backup although that is limited to 1TB.   I use Acronis cloud for my backups with just about 6TB of data, mostly images.   If I wanted, I could access that cloud data from my cell phone to stream when away from my primary PC.   There was a time when Amazon allowed prime members to upload personal music to their service.   I took advantage and uploaded my full collection at that time and have access to this day.   There's enough there to keep my ears busy for years.
 

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I'm hesitant to use SSDs for long term backups, as I've read that they should stay powered up or they can lose data. It makes sense when I think about it. Currently, all of my SSDs are attached to PCs that I leave on mostly all the time to save wear & tear on the internal hard drive. I've had good luck (knock on wood) with internal hard drives. That being said, I always have a back up HD with my system image on it in case that changes.

My third backup SSD drive is not really being set aside as a backup. I have it attached to a Raspberry Pi mini PC that I have Volumio on and I use it as a music player in my main listening area. I access the music using my laptop web browser to access Volumio and it's pretty good. A bit cludgey with my large music collection and it doesn't find every single folder so I won't say it's perfect, but it works well for me. Total cost was about $225, including the external 1 TB SSD.

[rostasi]

Yup, I'm sticking with my setup until I feel that SSDs are more reliable.
They last a long time, but large data backups are iffy - even with using
a UPS to stave off the power flux we often have here.

Still, my favorite, most reliable drives, have been the Seagate Ironwolf.
I use them inside a Mediasonic bay enclosure that fits 48TB of storage.

Cloud storage is thru Backblaze. I try to read their very thorough reports on drive tech.
I can get a free zip file instantly for smaller downloads (if I have to, let's say,
retrieve that folder of files I tossed nearly a year ago) or:

For music, I keep the restore drives. Yes, they are on "My Book" drives,
but they aren't used - just physical backups:

 

I'm on the plan that saves everything for one year, so I'm very happy with that setup.

Music: it's like having your very own radio station pruned and curated to your personal taste.

 

 

[John L]

23 hours ago, rostasi said:

Did you check your settings on the WD Utilities app that comes with the drive?
It works the same way as the settings on the PC that was just recommended,
but is in the prefs of the Utilities app.

I mention this because a very long time ago,
I had a similar problem. I now have a different setup
because of the size of my collection (28 TB of drives).

 

So I tried this.   I had very low hopes because the default option is sleep only after 30 minutes of inactive use.  For me, it was going to sleep and waking up in intervals during active use every few minutes.  But I turned off the sleep option completely and .....   so far, so good.   I have listened to half a CD without interruption!     Thank you again for this idea!!   My fingers are crossed. 

This thread just keeps getting richer and richer - so much valuable information and opinions from people who know 1000 times more about these technologies than me - still another reason why Organissimo is such a great Site   By the way, I am still an active regular donor here even if the new website interface would suggest otherwise in my profile.  

 

[rostasi]

I hope this works. At least, it'll get you going in a forward direction
while you mull over all of our various suggestions.

Still, it's weird because if you're actually engaging the drive by listening
to something on it, then I would think that it wouldn't register as "inactivity."

Also, I forgot to mention that your drive shouldn't be connected to
your computer thru a USB hub (if that's the case).
That might cause some unexpected problems as well.

[John L]

1 hour ago, rostasi said:

I hope this works. At least, it'll get you going in a forward direction
while you mull over all of our various suggestions.

Still, it's weird because if you're actually engaging the drive by listening
to something on it, then I would think that it wouldn't register as "inactivity."

Also, I forgot to mention that your drive shouldn't be connected to
your computer thru a USB hub (if that's the case).
That might cause some unexpected problems as well.

Yes, I have not had good luck using USB hubs with hard drives.  I don't do it.   That makes it inconvenient sometimes, i.e.  I can't rip CDs on my Mac from my external CD drive to my external HD and keep my battery charged at the same time.   

[Stompin at the Savoy]

I use USB hubs with hard drives.  I have found there is a limit with the Dell PCs I use.  Four usb hard drives will work sometimes for a while but things go wrong.  So I generally only attach 3 or fewer hard drives.  If you use more than 1 it has to be a powered hub with its own wall wart.

[mjzee]

1 hour ago, John L said:

Yes, I have not had good luck using USB hubs with hard drives.  I don't do it.   That makes it inconvenient sometimes, i.e.  I can't rip CDs on my Mac from my external CD drive to my external HD and keep my battery charged at the same time.   

Have you tried using a powered USB hub?  I do exactly this scenario (Mac, external CD drive connected to powered hub, rip CDs through iTunes/Music to external HD) and it works fine.

FYI, I use this hub: 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005NGQWL2/

[rostasi]

Looks promising. I usually just follow what the drive manufacturers say, but I haven’t bought a new one in quite some time, so maybe they say it’s OK to use hubs now.

OK, so I stand corrected. I’ve never looked into them before even tho they’ve been around for a couple of decades. I guess I was just going by the things I’ve read in manuals a long time ago and just never needed to look further.

Edited December 13, 2023 by rostasi

[John L]

15 hours ago, mjzee said:

Have you tried using a powered USB hub?  I do exactly this scenario (Mac, external CD drive connected to powered hub, rip CDs through iTunes/Music to external HD) and it works fine.

FYI, I use this hub: 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005NGQWL2/

No.  That looks interesting.  I have just tried simple cheap hubs, and have experienced a sudden disconnection with the hard drive a few times doing it.  So I stopped.  

[mikeweil]

One of my external hard drives suddenly was no more accessible - I had left it connected after shutdown, and when restarting some windows update caused a fauilure when trying to read the external hard disc. 

I was lucky to have a friend who had a colleague in his IT business that had the proper tools to copy the contents of the EHD, re-format the drive and copy the data back on, so all was still there. He recommended to disconnect all external drives after shutdown for this reason. I never had a problem accessing data even when I had not used them for months.

I use a powered multi USB hub - most computers do not have enough power to drive more than one USB device at at time.  

Edited December 15, 2023 by mikeweil

[tranemonk]

On 12/12/2023 at 1:10 PM, rostasi said:

Yup, I'm sticking with my setup until I feel that SSDs are more reliable.
They last a long time, but large data backups are iffy - even with using
a UPS to stave off the power flux we often have here.

Still, my favorite, most reliable drives, have been the Seagate Ironwolf.
I use them inside a Mediasonic bay enclosure that fits 48TB of storage.

Cloud storage is thru Backblaze. I try to read their very thorough reports on drive tech.
I can get a free zip file instantly for smaller downloads (if I have to, let's say,
retrieve that folder of files I tossed nearly a year ago) or:

For music, I keep the restore drives. Yes, they are on "My Book" drives,
but they aren't used - just physical backups:

 

I'm on the plan that saves everything for one year, so I'm very happy with that setup.

Music: it's like having your very own radio station pruned and curated to your personal taste.

 

 

Unfortunately, as I think the OP has articulated there is no simple, super reliable solution to this problem (at least I don't think there is). I had Backblaze and I canceled it because I found the interface clunky and confusing and the backup was god awful slow (and I have a fast network at home). I'm on a Mac and have had a few digital disasters so I just gave up and am paying Apple to keep my stuff in the cloud. I pay for a monthly music subscription to an external spinning drive and an SSD. I considered a NAS but I didn't have the patience to figure it out.

Please let us know if you come up with a simple, reliable solution.

[rostasi]

Wow. OK, I don't get that at all because, for me, Backblaze is incredibly easy.
I can't see the interface getting any easier. The moment I opened it up,
it began reading the drives and began the back-up. I never have to look at it ever again, but I just might every few months just to see that it's still working by clicking on the icon in the menu bar at the top. It tells me what's recently happened:

I just can't imagine it getting any easier than that.
Speed? I started it with a huge amount, so I knew
that it would take a long time, but I just go on doing
what I do and it handles the rest without me even
having to mess with it. If I were a laptop user,
I could still pick up where I left off at any time
(unless it's been over 2 weeks, then they send you
an email asking where your drive is).

[I just checked: my initial backup was a bit over 1TB/day. -
which, for me, was fine - considering I didn't need to always
be aware of it. I could easily do all kinds of other things while
it was doing its thing].

So, yeah, for me, it's an incredibly simple, reliable solution
(with extra benefits at an incredible price).

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by rostasi