BFT 241 Link and discussion thread

[randyhersom]

9 tracks, a little over an hour.

https://thomkeith.net/blindfold-tests/current-tests/

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

Enjoy!

Edited April 4 by randyhersom

[Dan Gould]

Sticking to what had appeal (except in one instance):

1.  Guessing Charles Tolliver. was 3 1/2 stars but the saxophonist took away from the track for me so 3 stars.

6.  Muted trumpet "Tenderly". No guesses but 3.5 stars. 

7. I wonder if a different saxophone would have elicited a different reaction but I hate hate hated his/her tone.  1 star for the potential of the concept.

 

Thanks Randy.

[felser]

First cut is B3 from this.  Great stuff!

[mjzee]

Track 9 is the first track from this.

[randyhersom]

Dan is correct on the composition for 6, felser correct on 1, mjzee correct on 9.

[felser]

1 – (posted this earlier) Cut is B3 from this wonderful album.  Great stuff!

2 – Good cut!   Hyperactive sax players, but totally enjoying the rhythm section and the composition.  Hard Bop!  No ID’s, will be interested to find out who/what it is

3 – I assume Dollar Brand/Abdullah Ibrahim, though maybe Harry Miller, certainly a South African/Village groove.  Not my thing, I find myself getting impatient with it.

4 –  Grew on me as it went on, but I find myself getting impatient with it on the bottom, with the stagnant martial rhythm, and on top with the little quirks in the composition.   The front line guys can play their instruments.  Not my type of jazz guitar playing, but this guy is very good at what he does.  In the end, this cut does win me over, though it is a split decision.  I do want to find out more about it.

5 – I’m probably too old and way too far from being the target audience to really get this one.  I appreciate the sentiment of what they’re trying to say, but can’t relate to the vocal style in the least, and the sax solo does nothing for me.  Nothing here that sparks me to relisten or explore more deeply.

6 – Back on track, lovely version of “Tenderly”.   Clark Terry or someone like that?   No fireworks, and the rhythm arrangement and bass solo don’t do much for me, but the cut goes down nice.

7 – Sax  player is unlistenable for me.  A case where @Dan Gould  and I are on exactly the same page!

8 – Interesting cut, but the low fidelity greatly detracts from my enjoyment.  Enjoying it more than I would expect given the electronics on the cut.  I do want to know more!

9 – The title track from this of course!  This is the only post 70’s album I have kept by this artist, and strictly for this cut.  Saw him at Penn’s Landing in Philly a couple years later, and this song was the clear highlight of the show for me.

Thanks for the Easter BFT!

 

Edited March 31 by felser

[Dan Gould]

I took 1/2 a star off for Hank Mobley soloing? WTH is the matter with me? <Hangs head in deep shame>

[felser]

49 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

I took 1/2 a star off for Hank Mobley soloing? WTH is the matter with me? <Hangs head in deep shame>

May have been for James Spauding on alto?  He was never a favorite of mine.

[Dan Gould]

14 minutes ago, felser said:

May have been for James Spauding on alto?  He was never a favorite of mine.

I think maybe you're right.  I like Spaulding later in his career, some Muse recordings are strong.

[JSngry]

Tractor? 

[JSngry]

Wow a flurry of activity already!

TRACK ONE - Pure land for the tractor? Not my favorite Freddie record at all, not even this group of cuts. Hank is just a little off. OTOH, Elvin. So hey.

TRACK TWO - This is sick. The second tenor is Warne, so I'm going to guess that the first is Pete Christlieb. Is this from Apogee? If so, this is a drier mix than I'm used to hearing it with, and that's ok with me. Not my favorite Warne overall,, but it's always good to hear him in different settings, such as a fire-breathing tenor duel. As always he rises to the challenge by going counter to it. What a genius he was, one of the real ones.

TRACK THREE - Hmm...not feeling this one as much, playing or recording, seems a bit lacking all around. sorry.

TRACK FOUR - LOUDLY QUIET!!!! I get it, but I'm not in the mood for it right now. Their problem, not mine. It almost sounds like somebody who takes Santana more seriously than I do...

TRACK FIVE - QUIETLY LOUD!!! I get it, and am in the mood for it once the post-Steve Coleman alto starts, The lyrics have a good message, I guess this is what happens when men don't talk to their kids about what being a real man means (maybe because they don't know either?). Anyway...I wish this cut played a little hotter (and the one before less hot) because I do like it. It's fresh enough to pique interest.

TRACK SIX - I like the arrangement (plus how it's executed) and how that seems to be the focus of the performance. The bass solo is just a tasty interlude. Did the trumpeter do the arrangeent? Very, very nice!

TRACK SEVEN - Call for the Angels from Albert! Get the tractor ready, we're plowing under the sins of this world to grow a new spirit for the next one. Or so one hoped. But no matter, this is SO church, so TOTALLY church.

TRACK EIGHT - I wanted to dislike this when the metal started happening, but the tenor playing kept me in. A bit of the same preaching element as the Albert cut, but....preaching without the church, if that makes any sense. Also references back to George Adams with Gil Evans, sorta. Anyway, it got me in and kept me in, and there was no guarantee of that. Kudos!

TRACK NINE -

Get one to go with your tractor! It goes better with the video!

Thanks, Randy, I appreciate the brevity in terms of both # of tracks and overall time need to complete the exam. Time pleasurably sprenT!

 

[randyhersom]

Tenors and album identified for #2

Title, piano and tenor identified by first name for 7.  

Glad you enjoyed 5 and 8.

 

 

[JSngry]

5 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

I took 1/2 a star off for Hank Mobley soloing? WTH is the matter with me? <Hangs head in deep shame>

No, it's ok, he's a little off here. Just a little, but enough to notice.

[medjuck]

 

38 minutes ago, JSngry said:

W 

TRACK TWO - This is sick. The second tenor is Warne, so I'm going to guess that the first is Pete Christlieb. Is this from Apogee? If so, this is a drier mix than I'm used to hearing it with, and that's ok with me. Not my favorite Warne overall,, but it's always good to hear him in different settings, such as a fire-breathing tenor duel. As always he rises to the challenge by going counter to it. What a genius he was, one of the real ones.

 

If it is Apogee, I remember that   I thought it was an electric piano.  Someone responded that the Steely Dan guys who produced it liked dry mixes. 

[felser]

Yes, #2 is "Tenors of the Time" from Christlieb/Marsh 'Apogee'.

[JSngry]

There's a few other Christlieb/Marsh pairings that I prefer, although to be honest, I put up with Christlieb to get to the Warne, Always. But Warne seemed to enjoy playing with him, so there that is!

[tkeith]

With apologies -- I don't want to read the thread as I haven't had a chance to listen, yet.

I forgot to include a download link, but that has been rectified.  The link is directly above the player.  Also, I've completed as far back as 2021 for the archived BFTs.  Feel free to take a look and shoot me feedback via private message so as not to derail the thread.

[mikeweil]

Track 1: What an opener. Definitive Messengers feel. Freddie Hubbard? James Spaulding? Tenor plays some Mobley phrases, but with a sharper sound. Pianist is out of the Tyner school. Very much Tyner ...... Drummer reminds me of Louis Hayes (the ride cymbal feel), but also Joe Chambers (the solo). Very much enjoyed this track. Some Hubbard band?

Track 2: Quite a sax feast! Almost too much, but excellently executed.

Track 3: This sounds familiar in style. A bit of a South African Kwela feel. Like it, could be longer. Don't like the fadeout ending.

Track 4: No idea who/what this is. I am not familiar with this style.

Track 5: Another stylistic jump. Interesting, nice voice, but too low in the mix. Would like to hear more.

Track 6: I like it when a familiar standard is played at such a slow tempo. Tenderly it is. Nice vamp treatment. 

Track 7: Piano is slightly out of tune. And I don't like his hyperactive playing. But with the saxist it works. He refers to older stylistics, almost like a parody, but it sounds sincere and authentic to me. Almost humoresque. A bit hymnic feel. Interesting! Again, would like to hear more.

Track 8: Spiritual tenor sax with heavy rock backing. Not my thing, but well done.

Track 9:  Randy you prefer energetic stuff, for sure! I probably know that sax player, but ....  the theme reminds me of some  neobop tune.

All these tracks leave me stumped, as far as identifying players is concerned, except for the opener. As always, I'm amazed at how much music there is ..... thanks for one more snippet of the endless musical adventure aka jazz.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

After reading through the others' comments:

So I was on spot for the opener. Have the CD but haven't listened to it for decades.

Of course that is Rollins on track 9 - that's the way I saw him play live, and as on this track he drives me nuts with his endless solos! What does he want to say?

Edited April 7 by mikeweil

[randyhersom]

Thanks everybody for your reactions.  1,2, 7 and 9 identified.  I'll probably do clues at midmonth if Tim and Thom don't ID the rest.  In the last week of the month I approve of posting reactions even if you have Shazamed.

[Milestones]

Ayler had that strange-sounding sentimental thing going on in his soft pieces.  I can't say that I've ever grown fond of it.  

I'm also a big fan of Sonny on "G-Man."

 

 

[mjzee]

Track 01: In the Jazz Messengers mold.  Modal.  That fire makes me think of Woody Shaw.  A lot of energy in that band.  Billy Higgins on drums.  Jackie McLean on alto?  No, a little too everywhere, not blues based enough.  Wait, is that late Hank Mobley?  I’m stumped.  But it’s a good’un.

Track 02: The head is a little reminiscent of Ornette, maybe because the piano’s so down in the mix it’s almost not there.  A little frantic.  Maybe more than a little.  I kinda lost interest after awhile.  Is this one of those Pete Christlieb - Warne Marsh things?

Track 03: Has to be Abdullah Ibrahim, a personal fav.  Sounds like it could be from his South Africa years.  5 stars.

Track 04: Violin and electric guitar to start.  The band could be Oregon, but the guitarist is definitely not Ralph Towner.  Moody, fun stuff.  I’m gonna guess the recording date is mid-70’s, and Jerry Goodman and Jan Hammer are participating.

Track 05: Sounds kinda lo-fi; off a cassette?  Didn’t do much for me.

Track 06: “Tenderly.”  Trumpeter is taking his time, always a good sign, but it’s the bass that takes the solo.  Is it the bassist’s date?  The track was OK, but I would have liked it a little sweeter.

Track 07: Track 6, disc 1, from this.

Track 08: Based on the sound quality (the album was recorded on cassette), I’m gonna guess it’s the title track from this.

Track 09: Already identified.

I like Randy's BFTs because I think we're roughly the same age and share many of the same musical touchstones.  Thanks for putting it together.  I'll be interested in the identity of #1; I have a feeling I own it.

(After reviewing the others' comments, I find I own #1 & 2.)

[tkeith]

Been a hot minute since I did this well on a BFT.  Got lost in the middle, but a lot to like on the ends.

Track 01 -- Freddie!  Set closer from this.  When I was in Junior High/High School, I used to occupy my time NOT meeting girls by making myself mixed tapes.  This was on one of them.  Much to like about this album, even if Mobley is a bit past prime.

Track 02 -- I was just listening to this in the car the other day, and found myself liking it less than I used to.  I have the deepest respect for Christlieb's mastery of the instrument, but I lose the thread of his story most of the time, and I'm not sure it's me.  Marsh is Marsh, even when he's not full-Marsh.  What an absolute monster.  This album is nothing if not gratuitous, but it certainly does give a horn player food for thought.  Not sure which track, but it's off this.

Track 03 -- OOOOOhhh!  Dennis!  Miss him so badly.  One of the world's truly good people.  This is off Catechism, again, forget the tune.  Dennis was a beautiful guy who, even in his absence, teaches me about friendship and being a better human.  One of the people I actively miss.

Track 04 -- Alright, I thought I spotted this one, but I did not.  Sounds like a bunch of other things and it's none of them.  So, I'm'a shut up and listen.  Okay, (second listen), sometimes a song this structured doesn't fit for me, but this one certainly does.  Even though it's very controlled (drummer must have been going nuts), this really works.  I appreciate the raspy guitar sound (as opposed to the hyper-compressed, chorus-soaked Ben Monder-style sound.  Every bit of this reminds me of something else, but nothing all at once.  The flute/horn line is certainly from something I'm familiar with, but I can't peg it.  An enjoyable excursion, both times.

Track 05 -- This one is the first miss for me.  The vocals remind me of what I didn't care for about 90s pop music.  A bit whiny, a bit unhip hip-hoppy.  Type of thing that might come on in a social setting and work, but for sitting and listening, it's a miss for me.  Over-arranged and too... I'm not sure what.  Alt-pop?  Sort of like the Bjorkestra, but doesn't work as well for me.  Huh... could maybe be the Bjorkestra.  Sounds a bit clean to be Travis, but could be.  Wish Tim were here to bounce this idea off of.

Track 06 -- A vaguely familiar rendition of Tenderly.  I like the bass solo and love the arrangement.  The trumpet doesn't particularly hit me.

Track 07 -- Albert.  It's Angels, but damned if I know the source.  I recall reading an interview with David Murray where he said of Albert, "I don't think I've every played one note that sounded like the guy."  Sorry, David, but I cannot agree.  Just acknowledge the influence for crissake.  There are certainly worse comparisons.  

Track 08 -- At 15 seconds I'm in, in spite of the guitar effects.  And then we go all Metallica.  That tenor intrigues me enough that I want to hear more, though.  Wait a second.  I was just reading an interview with this guy -- that's James Brandon Lewis.  I went to see a band like this (randomly associate crossover band) because the poster advertising the show listed JBL and Kurt Rosenwinkel.  As there was no cover charge, I was intrigued, to say the least.  When the band took the stage, no one looked remotely like either of those guys, and the music showed that.  Sort of a grungy, angsty, jamband stuff like this.  I lasted one song and left, with some strong words for the false advertising of the venue.  There's nothing I don't love about Lewis.  He should be getting the attention Kamasi gets, but it will never happen.  So long as he keeps making music, I don't care.  This track is all him to my ear.  

Track 09 -- And there's the boss.  Not sure what they've done to Smitty's drums here, but this is difficult to listen to.  Focus on Newk and it's all right, though.  Isn't this the show where he broke his heel?  It's the title track from this.

 

 

 

On 3/31/2024 at 4:59 PM, Dan Gould said:

I took 1/2 a star off for Hank Mobley soloing? WTH is the matter with me? <Hangs head in deep shame>

That's better.    [we all get fooled on occasion, bud]

On 3/31/2024 at 8:05 PM, JSngry said:

Tractor? 

Model 241 Massey Ferguson.  I am a nerd, but didn't know that until I searched for an image of the number.

[Dan Gould]

4 minutes ago, tkeith said:

 

 

 

 

That's better.    [we all get fooled on occasion, bud]

 

Actually @felser and I determined it was probably a reaction to Spaulding on alto. 

[tkeith]

1 minute ago, Dan Gould said:

Actually @felser and I determined it was probably a reaction to Spaulding on alto. 

I struggled with James for years.  Then Tolliver's Impact record with the big band one me over.  Later Spaulding is epic.  When I realized he was basically a baby during those Blue Note sessions, I went back and listened differently.  I really appreciate what he was doing then more now than when I first heard that stuff (like this).

 

[Dan Gould]

Just now, tkeith said:

I struggled with James for years.  Then Tolliver's Impact record with the big band one me over.  Later Spaulding is epic.  When I realized he was basically a baby during those Blue Note sessions, I went back and listened differently.  I really appreciate what he was doing then more now than when I first heard that stuff (like this).

 

Agree about later Spaulding, I do enjoy a couple of the Muse dates.