Any Cat Aficionados or Experts Here?

[Teasing the Korean]

Since jazz and cats pair naturally, I thought I would ask here.  Our 13-year-old male Maine Coon cat, who joined our family in 2015, has been demonstrating some bad behaviors in recent months.  We lost our female Siamese cat this past October.  It has been about 9 months since she died.  I don't know if he is grieving for her.  He seems to like being the Top Cat.

He has been using one of our hallways as a litter box.  The behavior is intermittent, so there is no pattern.  It has nothing to do with how clean or not the litter box is.  He uses the litter box, he uses our back yard as a litter box, and he is also using the hallway as a litter box.

We bought some stuff to spray on the floor, which is supposed to deter this kind of behavior, but it is apparently not working.

I have considered moving the litter box into the hallway as a troubleshooting experiment.  Maybe that is what I should do next.

Anyone encounter anything similar?  Any ideas?

@romualdo

[Stompin at the Savoy]

I'm by no means a cat expert.  Is it only urine? The cat is 13 - not ancient but getting up there - so is it possible he has developed some sort of urinary issue and uses the hall when he has to go urgently and can't get to the box or outside?

[Teasing the Korean]

18 minutes ago, Stompin at the Savoy said:

I'm by no means a cat expert.  Is it only urine? The cat is 13 - not ancient but getting up there - so is it possible he has developed some sort of urinary issue and uses the hall when he has to go urgently and can't get to the box or outside?

It is generally the other.  Occasionally, there is urine, but it's nowhere near as frequent.  That is a good point, though. Thank you!

[Teasing the Korean]

Thank you both @Stompin at the Savoy and @rostasi

I should add that he had a vet visit since this behavior has started, and they found no issues. 

The pee pads sound like a good idea.

Thanks again!

[soulpope]

If it is grieving, probably a (very) young cat in the house could help .... but it remains a tricky issue .... 

[Teasing the Korean]

22 minutes ago, rostasi said:

I'd also recommend carefully watching his gait as he walks around the house
(or tries jumping onto things). Maine Coons have a tendency to show arthritic
conditions at a younger age that many other breeds. Cats are, by nature,
very good at hiding pain, so keep that in mind when you observe.
This could contribute to erratic litter box visits.

I'm hoping that the vet visit included a blood workup recently,
because that can tell the vet (and you) a lot. If it is an arthritic condition,
I have a (vet approved) solution that will save you from expensive monthly shots.

The pee pads were a must for us because she decided to do her business on the wood floor.

The arthritis idea is interesting. Aside from being a Maine Coon, he is declawed on his front paws.  (We did not do this; he was declawed when we adopted him.)  Because claws function essentially as a joint in the cat's fingers/toes, declawed cats may become arthritic, because they adjust their gait to accommodate the missing joints.

Also, his litter box is in the utility room, and he walks through a large cat door I installed.  Even though the door is is big, if the cat has arthritis, I wonder if it is getting hard for him to walk through the cat door.  

I think our next step is to move the litter box inside, either into the hallway that he is using, or maybe the guest bathroom.

Thanks for the intel!

46 minutes ago, soulpope said:

If it is grieving, probably a (very) young cat in the house could help .... but it remains a tricky issue .... 

We've thought about that.  We both work from home, and as a result, I don't think he's particularly lonely during the day.  If we had to work in offices again, we would definitely want to get him a companion.  

[Teasing the Korean]

29 minutes ago, rostasi said:

If it's an arthritic situation, then you can use (check with your vet first):
Cosequin chews (they make them for dogs too - humans have their own
called Cosamin in capsule form). Eleven bucks is much better than paying
nearly ten times that for a Solensia monthly shot for your cat. Start with only
one chewable a day and then increase slightly to what it says on the directions.

 

👍

[medjuck]

Every time I quickly scroll through topics I briefly think it's saying "Any Cat Anderson Experts Here?"

[Brad]

Have you recently changed the type of litter box or type of litter you use?

Edited August 5, 2024 by Brad

[Ken Dryden]

Our cat Dolphy not only peed in our dining room but also on the carpeted landing on the stairs to the basement innour first house. We never figured out what caused him to do it. Since then cats have been exiled in the basement of both of the houses we’ve owned after we left the first one.

[clifford_thornton]

yeah, cats poop outside the box generally as a sign of some issue they're having, be it medical or stress. Our 11 year old cat started doing that but after an arthritis shot seems to be doing a lot better (she was creaking up the stairs). I hope it gets resolved soon and that your cat is okay.

[romualdo]

13 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Since jazz and cats pair naturally, I thought I would ask here.  Our 13-year-old male Maine Coon cat, who joined our family in 2015, has been demonstrating some bad behaviors in recent months.  We lost our female Siamese cat this past October.  It has been about 9 months since she died.  I don't know if he is grieving for her.  He seems to like being the Top Cat.

He has been using one of our hallways as a litter box.  The behavior is intermittent, so there is no pattern.  It has nothing to do with how clean or not the litter box is.  He uses the litter box, he uses our back yard as a litter box, and he is also using the hallway as a litter box.

We bought some stuff to spray on the floor, which is supposed to deter this kind of behavior, but it is apparently not working.

I have considered moving the litter box into the hallway as a troubleshooting experiment.  Maybe that is what I should do next.

Anyone encounter anything similar?  Any ideas?

@romualdo

Drew,

Just saw your initial posting

This is not an uncommon issue for household cats - things to consider as starters - can be physical (medical) or behavioural or more commonly both

1. how long has this been going on for & how soon did it commence after your other cat passed. Have there been any other significant changes in the household prior to the commencement of this behaviour.

2. Is he totally indoors

3. is he desexed (I presume he will have been)

4.  Is he "spraying" (marking) or urinating -> difference in stance between the two

5.  Chemicals used to "cover" the urine affected areas are useless IMHO. Once cats start urinating in an area the best way to stop this is to restrict access to that area (can be difficult in practice) & covering it with another chemical just won't work. In Australia we use a synthetic hormone called "Feliway" - comes as spray or diffuser - it is a calming/appeasement hormone that appears to have a positive effect on these cats that are urinating inappropriately if the cause is behavioural. There are also behavioural modifying drugs but how many people (in my experience) have success with pilling their cats?

6. First step is to obtain a urine sample +/- imaging (abdominal radiograph ie X ray bladder) to rule out urolithiasis (bladder crystals/stones) - struvite crystals/FLUTD (Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease) is a common cause of inappropriate urination -> can lead to life threatening urinary tract obstruction. If this is all normal then blood work would be useful but usually normal urinalysis leaves us with a behavioural issue. 

OK, that's a start

ps. I've been a practicing Veterinarian/Veterinary surgeon for almost 40 years, primarily emergency/critical care for the past 30

1 hour ago, Brad said:

Have you recently changed the type of litter box or type of litter you use?

that can be highly significant from my experience

Edited August 5, 2024 by romualdo

[Teasing the Korean]

11 hours ago, medjuck said:

Every time I quickly scroll through topics I briefly think it's saying "Any Cat Anderson Experts Here?"

9 hours ago, Brad said:

Have you recently changed the type of litter box or type of litter you use?

We at point tried the lightweight litter, but they didn't like that.  We have been using Tidy Cat, in the big plastic jugs.  He does not seem to have and inherent issue with the litter.

@romualdo

1. how long has this been going on for & how soon did it commence after your other cat passed. Have there been any other significant changes in the household prior to the commencement of this behaviour.

No significant changes.  Our Siam died in late October.  It started earlier this year, very intermittently.  It has become increasingly routine in recent months.

2. Is he totally indoors

Mostly.  He goes in our backyard for brief periods, and he goes to the bathroom outside.  He has no front claws (not our doing), so he can't climb the fence.

3. is he desexed (I presume he will have been)

Yes.

4.  Is he "spraying" (marking) or urinating -> difference in stance between the two

I'm sure he's urinating.  He was spayed as a kitten, and we had him for about 8 years before this behavior began.

5.  Chemicals used to "cover" the urine affected areas are useless IMHO. Once cats start urinating in an area the best way to stop this is to restrict access to that area (can be difficult in practice) & covering it with another chemical just won't work. In Australia we use a synthetic hormone called "Feliway" - comes as spray or diffuser - it is a calming/appeasement hormone that appears to have a positive effect on these cats that are urinating inappropriately if the cause is behavioural. There are also behavioural modifying drugs but how many people (in my experience) have success with pilling their cats?

Good to know!

6. First step is to obtain a urine sample +/- imaging (abdominal radiograph ie X ray bladder) to rule out urolithiasis (bladder crystals/stones) - struvite crystals/FLUTD (Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease) is a common cause of inappropriate urination -> can lead to life threatening urinary tract obstruction. If this is all normal then blood work would be useful but usually normal urinalysis leaves us with a behavioural issue. 

He just had a full checkup about a month ago, and they did not find anything amiss.

As a postscript, and maybe this was a bad idea, I moved the litter box inside, as I was concerned about his ability to go through the cat door.  He used the litter box last night, for whatever that's worth.

[romualdo]

1 hour ago, Teasing the Korean said:

As a postscript, and maybe this was a bad idea, I moved the litter box inside, as I was concerned about his ability to go through the cat door.  He used the litter box last night, for whatever that's worth.

Yes, cats are very sensitive to suddenly moving their litter tray, especially if it's a reasonable distance - if you need to move it then do it in small sequential steps, daily over a period of time. Also they should never be near their feeding area. So, you originally had the litter tray outside?

Edited August 5, 2024 by romualdo

[Dan Gould]

34 minutes ago, romualdo said:

 Also they should never be near their feeding area. 

Mikey's litter box and food dishes are within 10 inches of each other at the closest. maybe if that's the way it is from adoption as a baby it doesn't matter?

 

[clifford_thornton]

oh yeah, Feliway definitely has worked for our cat in trying times. All advice here I'm seeing is good. Even if the cat goes outside the box, he's still a family member and accidents are a part of life -- cats get very ashamed and I always tell my Noodles that it's okay, we just clean it up and try to find out what's happening.

[Teasing the Korean]

3 hours ago, romualdo said:

Yes, cats are very sensitive to suddenly moving their litter tray, especially if it's a reasonable distance - if you need to move it then do it in small sequential steps, daily over a period of time. Also they should never be near their feeding area. So, you originally had the litter tray outside?

The litter box was in our utility room, and he would go through a cat door to access it.  It is a large cat door as these things go - I think I selected the size for a small- or medium-sized dog, because he is a large Maine Coon.  I'm concerned that he may have developed arthritis through a combination of age and the fact that his previous family declawed his front paws.  (I've been told that this can affect a cat's gait, which in turn can in turn lead to arthritis; please correct me if I'm wrong.) He doesn't seem to want to go through the door anymore.

So, in terms of troubleshooting, I moved the litter box inside, so he doesn't have to use the cat door.  I cleverly - or foolishly - moved it to the location he has been using inside.  It's at the end of a hallway that dead-ends, so placing the litter box there doesn't affect foot traffic, nor is it a complete eyesore.  It may not be ideal, but if he continues to use the litter box in the new location, I can live with it.

[jlhoots]

Maybe there are some childless cat ladies around who can help. 😎

[mjazzg]

😄

[clifford_thornton]

1 hour ago, Teasing the Korean said:

The litter box was in our utility room, and he would go through a cat door to access it.  It is a large cat door as these things go - I think I selected the size for a small- or medium-sized dog, because he is a large Maine Coon.  I'm concerned that he may have developed arthritis through a combination of age and the fact that his previous family declawed his front paws.  (I've been told that this can affect a cat's gait, which in turn can in turn lead to arthritis; please correct me if I'm wrong.) He doesn't seem to want to go through the door anymore.

So, in terms of troubleshooting, I moved the litter box inside, so he doesn't have to use the cat door.  I cleverly - or foolishly - moved it to the location he has been using inside.  It's at the end of a hallway that dead-ends, so placing the litter box there doesn't affect foot traffic, nor is it a complete eyesore.  It may not be ideal, but if he continues to use the litter box in the new location, I can live with it.

ah, yeah, the declawing is gnarly. So sorry that happened to him. I am so glad you are trying to find your buddy a workable situation. 

[Stompin at the Savoy]

Cats are very fastidious creatures.  Try to keep the cat-box well away from their food and water and places they like to hang out.

One thing that struck me about this situation: the cat may have a problem with going through the cat door.  Could have some painful spot that gets hit when he goes through the door.

Edited August 5, 2024 by Stompin at the Savoy

[Teasing the Korean]

19 minutes ago, Stompin at the Savoy said:

Cats are very fastidious creatures.  Try to keep the cat-box well away from their food and water and places they like to hang out.

One thing that struck me about this situation: the cat may have a problem with going through the cat door.  Could have some painful spot that gets hit when he goes through the door.

That's what I'm starting to think.  Arthritis, from a combination of age and having been declawed by his previous family.  He has been using the litter box since I placed it at the end of the hallway.  We'll see how things progress longterm.

[Stompin at the Savoy]

1 hour ago, Teasing the Korean said:

That's what I'm starting to think.  Arthritis, from a combination of age and having been declawed by his previous family.  He has been using the litter box since I placed it at the end of the hallway.  We'll see how things progress longterm.

When he jumps through he hits a swinging door with his head?  I have heard of animals developing a tumor at the point of contact.

Edited August 5, 2024 by Stompin at the Savoy

[Teasing the Korean]

1 hour ago, Stompin at the Savoy said:

When he jumps through he hits a swinging door with his head?  I have heard of animals developing a tumor at the point of contact.

It's a soft plastic flap. He just saunters through. 

[romualdo]

2 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

That's what I'm starting to think.  Arthritis, from a combination of age and having been declawed by his previous family.  He has been using the litter box since I placed it at the end of the hallway.  We'll see how things progress longterm.

Yes, OA (osteoarthritis) could be a possibility but from my experience it is not a common cause of this behaviour. If his renal function is OK (you've had recent bloods done as far as I can see) you could do a trial of an NSAID (ie Meloxicam liquid) & if he improves (re using the flap) then we could indeed be dealing with a case of OA.