Blakey's '65 Limelight sides w/Gilmore, Morgan

[ghost of miles]

Posted this in the Verve LPR thread, but thought it significant enough to give it its own thread. Courtesy of Alan's great Jazzmatazz site:

Art Blakey - 'S Make It (Verve LPR/Limelight) June 8

— with Lee Morgan, John Gilmore, Curtis Fuller, and John Hicks; 1965

[DrJ]

I have the Japanese issue. To me it's solid middle-rank Messengers material, nothing more, but that means quite good in comparison to a lot of other music, and I'm glad others will get a chance to hear it for less than I paid!

[ghost of miles]

I'm a John Gilmore freak, which accounts for a great deal of my excitement. I've long wanted to hear some recorded evidence of his stay with the Messengers. Others have shared your opinon, DrJ, so I'm not anticipating great revelations or anything... just a chance to hear Gilmore and Lee Morgan together in a Blakey front-line makes me a man.

[JSngry]

Yeah, it's not a "great album" per se, but even if the parts are greater than the whole, those parts are pretty damn impressive in their own right.

[DrJ]

ghost of miles  Posted on Apr 17 2004, 04:53 PM      I'm a John Gilmore freak, which accounts for a great deal of my excitement. I've long wanted to hear some recorded evidence of his stay with the Messengers. Others have shared your opinon, DrJ, so I'm not anticipating great revelations or anything... just a chance to hear Gilmore and Lee Morgan together in a Blakey front-line makes me a smile.gif man.

I hear ya David, and it's quite groovy listening. Just didn't want you to get your hopes TOO far up, my friend! Otherwise this could happen to you:

Peaking a little early?

Edited April 17, 2004 by DrJ

[ghost of miles]

ghost of miles  Posted on Apr 17 2004, 04:53 PM       I'm a John Gilmore freak, which accounts for a great deal of my excitement. I've long wanted to hear some recorded evidence of his stay with the Messengers. Others have shared your opinon, DrJ, so I'm not anticipating great revelations or anything... just a chance to hear Gilmore and Lee Morgan together in a Blakey front-line makes me a smile.gif man.

I hear ya David, and it's quite groovy listening. Just didn't want you to get your hopes TOO far up, my friend! Otherwise this could happen to you:

Peaking a little early?

Yikes!

I thought listening to jazz made one a better lover--er, uh, that is, of jazz, of course.

Edited April 17, 2004 by ghost of miles

[couw]

I thought listening to jazz made one a better lover--er, uh, that is, of jazz, of course.

now where's that link to that scientific research that said that jazz fans are better lovers?

was it posted here or on Board Armageddon?

[Shrdlu]

I wasn't all that keen on John Gilmore when I first heard this LP in the 60s - I was young and into Trane a lot then. I don't have a copy of the LP now. But recently, I got to hear Freddie Hubbard's Impulse album "The Artistry of Freddie Hubbard" for the first time. Gilmore's playing on that is very striking, and impressed me a lot. He uses a very spare style there, very disciplined and effective. So I'd like to hear this Blakey set again to see how Gilmore is on it. Of course, Lee Morgan will be great on it too, no doubt.

Wasn't there some talk about Gilmore having influenced Trane back in the 50s?

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Yes, Coltrane mentioned being influenced by Gilmore (around 1961) in an interview. That has led to a lot of discussion.

The problem you'll have with this record is that all (or just most? I forget) of the Gilmore solos are missing. At least one unedited track with a Gilmore solo was issued on a various artists LP - if Verve knows what they're doing, they'll include that in the CD reissue. Unfortunately, that's a big "if".

Mike

[couw]

Yes, Coltrane mentioned being influenced by Gilmore (around 1961) in an interview. That has led to a lot of discussion.

The problem you'll have with this record is that all (or just most? I forget) of the Gilmore solos are missing. At least one unedited track with a Gilmore solo was issued on a various artists LP - if Verve knows what they're doing, they'll include that in the CD reissue. Unfortunately, that's a big "if".

Mike

it's in the LPR series: what once was is what you get. So no restoration of solos or other missing pieces of the puzzle. Drat.

[kh1958]

I have this on LP, and as I recall, there are a couple of outstanding tracks, the rest being a bit disappointing.

[Rooster_Ties]

Yes, Coltrane mentioned being influenced by Gilmore (around 1961) in an interview. That has led to a lot of discussion.

The problem you'll have with this record is that all (or just most? I forget) of the Gilmore solos are missing. At least one unedited track with a Gilmore solo was issued on a various artists LP - if Verve knows what they're doing, they'll include that in the CD reissue. Unfortunately, that's a big "if".

Mike

it's in the LPR series: what once was is what you get. So no restoration of solos or other missing pieces of the puzzle. Drat.

Excuse my French, by why the fuck release this on CD, if you're not going to restore the edited solos???

I mean, that's the only way a release like this has any serious merit (or at least as much merit it's capable of).

I sure the thing would sell better if people had the chance to hear more solos from Gilmore. But released with all those edits, I'm sure I'm just as likely to take a pass at it, as I would buy it. Release it in it's full form, and I'm seriously WAY MORE interested in hearing this thing.

WTF are they thinking????

[brownie]

Excuse my French, by why the fuck release this on CD, if you're not going to restore the edited solos???

Je ne comprends pas

Where's the French

[Dan Gould]

Rooster, there's no way that restoring John Gilmore solos makes this CD a bigger seller. Its put out because its Blakey, and because its Morgan.

Personally, I like this album more than a lot of people seem to, but then again, I was once known as Mogie Man.

[Chuck Nessa]

Rooster, there's no way that restoring John Gilmore solos makes this CD a bigger seller. Its put out because its Blakey, and because its Morgan.

They would have sold one more (to me) if the Gilmore stuff was restored.

[J.A.W.]

Rooster, there's no way that restoring John Gilmore solos makes this CD a bigger seller.  Its put out because its Blakey, and because its Morgan.

They would have sold one more (to me) if the Gilmore stuff was restored.

Same here.

[BruceH]

If this has the Gilmore solos cut out then I'M not getting it either.

[Dan Gould]

If this has the Gilmore solos cut out then I'M not getting it either.

Understanding that the Gilmore solos were cut out originally??

One of the better Blakey Limelights, and y'all don't want it because of a decision made by the record company 40 years ago.

Your loss.

[BruceH]

Understanding that the Gilmore solos were cut out originally??

One of the better Blakey Limelights, and y'all don't want it because of a decision made by the record company 40 years ago.

Well, heck man, it is a real buzzkill.

Me want Gilmore.

[mikeweil]

WTF are they thinking????

They think that they save a lot on costs by just pulling out an existing master tape and cover art and making a 1-to-1 re-release. Universal fired half of the personnel after fusing with Polygram, and has reduced it even more after that, so they'd have to hire some external reissue producer, who'd have to know about jazz, and cost money, and invest in studio time for edits etc. The new digital transfers are a routine job by now.

Part of the blame goes to nostalgic fans that loathe bonus tracks in any form.

[DrJ]

This is a great illustration of the point I made a while back - comparing the old Verve Elite series, which was a fantastic example of how to do a largish-jazz label reissue series the right way, and the new LPR series, which sure is getting some nice stuff out but ulitmately is a major disappointment in terms of inconsistent sound, lack of new notes/documentation, failure to add vault material/restore edited out stuff, etc etc etc.

PLEASE bring back the Elite series, Verve! S'MAKE IT would have made a superb Elite with the Gilmore stuff restored (even if overall I still find it a middle-weight session).

[JSngry]

Although I'm as bummed about the Gilmore business as anybody, Dan has a good point - if you don't already have this album in some form or fashion, it would not necessarily be wise to pass it by. It doesn't exactly suck, if you know what I mean.

[BruceH]

PLEASE bring back the Elite series, Verve!

Testify!

[WD45]

Rooster, there's no way that restoring John Gilmore solos makes this CD a bigger seller.  Its put out because its Blakey, and because its Morgan.

They would have sold one more (to me) if the Gilmore stuff was restored.

Same here.

Me too.

[couw]

* how funny is that name? i crack up wtf? every time i see that dude or lady post; bemused, not at all offended. it's just a body part tho' a swell one for sure.

it's a dude, he posted a pic with a very small guitar on that show yourself thread. You know what they say about he symbolism of guitars with respect to masculinity...