david weiss

Another valid point Dan but we'll never agree on this one. Getting a valid search warrant for something that at that point shouldn't have existed is a little tricky to me. The prosecutor in this case has really been over the top in his pursuit of "justice" and I think has been cited a few times already for his over the top behavior. Threatening Anderson's family with jail time is a bit much for me. Yes, Bonds is probably a piece of shit but this is all a bit much. The government is spending a lot of money to make an example of Bonds to show they are doing something about this steroids thing and Bonds is the scapegoat because he was the best and because he is an asshole. Even an asshole deserves a fair shake.

I don't think this is a real fair comparison, David. Sports involve competition, and records are there to be broken. Some of which - like the all time Home Run record - are tainted by the cloud of steroids, as compared to the previous generations. In music, that's obviously more artistic than competitive. I don't think using a form of enhancement in music affects the opinion and public standing of the artist like it does the athlete. I know it's not fair but there is some competition involved in music especially among trumpet players, especially if they are on stage together. Now if one is tired and is not at his best and the other takes something so he is full of energy for the gig and is clearly superior on this night for all to see and maybe someone important is in the house that night and they offer him a great gig instead of you....... this is all fiction but I'm just saying that maybe it's not that far-fetched. All I'm really trying to say is a lot of people take something for an edge at a given time in their life for a variety of reasons including needing to be at their very best for what ever reason at a particularly important time in their life or career. Drugs of all sorts have fueled all sorts of industries for many years. Certainly there are some young up and comers in many fields who do coke or speed to stay up and work 20 hours days to impress their bosses and get ahead. I'm not saying it's right or anything I'm just saying I understand the impetus a little bit especially the ones who are taking it late in their career or the ones who took it to recover from an injury faster. The superstars get all the ink about this but I think Quincy has a point, if the list is released I think we will find many mediocre fringe players on the list who probably doped to have a fighting chance to make it in the big leagues and just have a couple of years of that big league money so they have a chance to lead a comfortable life. Again, I'm not saying they are right but I can see how a borderline player would be tempted especially when everyone else around him is juicing and getting called up and he is not so sure about himself. Rick Ankiel comes to mind as well. After his pitching disaster, he goes to the minor leagues and successfully becomes an outfielder and just when he is getting attention he injures himself and takes Hgh to recover from the injury faster so he can get back to the business of rebuilding his career. Should he have taken it, well probably not but I do understand the impetus. As I said earlier, I think this has become an all or nothing proposition which really isn't fair either. Since we'll never prove anything definitively (we might have a positive test but it still doesn't tell us how long they were doing it etc) we just have to say all of them did it and and then we can say well Barry Bonds was the best hitter of the steroids era and so on. Since there are plenty of juicers who never made it out of the minors it's still an accomplishment to be the best at what you do in this era. I want to see Bonds and Ramirez in the Hall of Fame but I guess one just would have to make the distinction about the era they played in. He would have lasted a couple of more years and would have been voted into the Hall much earlier. He was one of my favorites as a kid, he had some monster years, unbelievable numbers.

I think this is a pretty accurate assessment. Again because it was on a major label it had to hyped as more than it probably was. It was great they laid out the bread for Belden to realize this project but they probably owed him considering all the fine work he did for them. I agree that Turandot is stronger. The one I always liked and I'm not sure this one saw the light of day was a collaboration between Belden and a flute player whose name I can't recall. Belden reworked The Four Seasons for him and the excerpts Belden played for me at the time he was recording it were killing. This wasn't for Blue Note (I think it was for the flute players label) and I'm not sure it was released. Kevin, did he send you this?

Sorry I missed that though it is clearly in your post. Well clearly you are crazy to record and release a new CD in this climate but you just can't help yourself can you. I'm kidding of course (I hate to use emoticons) but it is a daunting task these days but if it is what you do, you have to continue on some level I guess. I would have to hope that a label like yours would still find a way through all this. You have been out here a long time and have clearly established your identity and sound and have consistently churned out quality product. You have a line as it where and should have a fan base that has relied on your abitlity to turn them on to new and exciting things and they know when they buy a Nessa CD they can count on it being of a certain type of music and of a certain quality. The part the trips me up, that I will never come to grips with is, why then are sales declining for you. Is your fan base dying or done with buying CDs or what. I know the current state of the economy is a factor but the fans of the music you churn out, the ones that have supported you through the years are probably not the type to switch to downloads or suddenly decide they like smooth jazz so where did they go (and of course I'm being more general now, not just referring to you). I mean it's one thing when back in the heyday of the young lion/new format (the CD) bonanza I would still here things like sophomore slump. In other worlds, so and so's first CD sold 60,000 copies and their second CD sold 12,000 and they are talking sophomore slump? Maybe, just maybe, the over-hyped first CD didn't really pass muster with the fans so they took a pass on the second one because you would think an artist would only get better as they matured so one would think if the first CD was good than most would anticipate the second and run out and get it when it came out. It's hard to think there was a time when an acoustic jazz album by a mid level star on a major label, not even a star yet actually because it is their first album, would sell 60,000 copies (and this is no exaggeration). Where did all these people go? Were they sick of being essentially lied to and being suckered into buying the next greatest new thing one time too many so they all chucked it in. That is a huge dropoff that I can't quite get my head around. The independents have historically been the ones to document most of the best music at the time it is happening and now it is time to rely on them again for this but I fear many aren't up to the task and in the long run that might be one of the final nails in the coffin. How many guys, in the US at least, are out there like Chuck has been, running a modest label for what, over 30 years and are still going? I can't think of any off the top of my head. Well one, Muse/High Note I guess would be one (and I'm not comparing you guys) but I can't think of any others. Sunnyside perhaps, they have been out here for a while now. There are some up and comers though much to my relief and I'm interested to see how they will fare and if they will last.

Yes, the Bad Plus is a bad example when related to what you do, I was painting broader strokes here, generalizing a bit and didn't mean to imply that this was a model for what you do. At this point, I assume you know what your market is, know what you can expect sales wise and spend accordingly. I also assume you are talking about re-issuing things from your catalog and are not recording new music. I'm sure it is a labor of love at this point and probably always has been but you been around long enough to know things rebound, how or in what medium I don't know but things never stay the same for long. Maybe the next generation will want to hold physical recordings in their hands again, who knows, but there is always a reaction to something at some point. I also read about how Blue Note is experimenting with the LP/CD packaging. I don't know about that but maybe being able to download the CD for free when you buy the LP might be a little cooler and a little cheaper. I'm not a fan of these download only labels that have their artists sell download cards for $10 at gigs. At that point I still think I would want a CD for a few dollars more but then I'm not 20 years old. Oh and at least your distributor pays you even if it is down the road a bit, I've heard some stories......not much of a silver lining I guess......

Bonds tested negative because there was no test for the designer steroid he got from BALCO. That is why a re-test gave a positive result, they knew what they were looking for. As for Papi, he never came close to getting muscular like so many confirmed 'roid users did. He was always a pretty big guy, and he surely never looked like he spent a lot of time working out. Furthermore, as to his performance in Minnesota, its been widely reported how their coaching effected his power hitting, as encapsulated in this story: One year in Minnesota, with a runner at second, he took a mighty cut and flew out CF. He got yelled at because he didn't ground out to the right side to advance the runner. He learned his lesson and when he came to Boston, in the same situation in a spring training game, he grounded to second and was promptly told that they want him to give the ball a ride, not worry about advancing the runner. In short, he was set loose in Boston from a very constrained environment in Minnesota. Good points Dan. That is interesting about Bonds but again opens up many cans of worms about how legal all this is. Retesting a sample that was given on the condition of anonymity and should have been destroyed is problematic to me. I just saw Donald Fehr's statement on ESPN and it is dead on, check it out. Interesting about Papi as well. Good to know Boston hitting coaches straightened him out but the steroids probably helped a little as well if he did in fact take them. At this point, I just don't care anymore. It's an all or nothing proposition to me at this point, since I don't really know who took them and to what extent, I'm just going to go with everyone did it and that's the reality of baseball in this era. Nobody can really definitively say who did what. One positive test means you did it your whole career or just that year or your denials are tailored to an anonymous test you know about and are hoping won't be leaked or it was leaked so you claim you only did steroids that years or maybe one or two more years to make it sound believable. It's all so pathetic and becoming a non-issue to me. Focus on testing to keep it clean from now on and move on because there is no way to figure out this mess. Barry Bonds and Manny Ramirez are probably my favorite recent players and I was a little disappointed when the reports of their positive tests came out but it really didn't change my feeling about them much or really undo their accomplishments. I loved watching them hit, it was a thing of beauty. If steroids enhanced that a bit oh well but they were still amazing, disciplined hitters with great technique and beautiful swings. Since this is a jazz forum let me put this out there though it really doesn't have much to do with this. I do a lot of touring with a lot of different people. Touring can be grueling and I'm often exhausted and but usually find the energy to get through a gig on pure adrenaline when I'm tired and sometimes the music just takes me over and energizes me but this can only take a person only so far for so long. Now maybe one or two guys are bouncing off the walls full of energy because they did some coke while we are dragging our asses. Are they cheating?

Good points Chuck but if the prices dropped initially and then creeped up to where we are today, that might have been easier to swallow. I've never self-released/produced any of my CDs. I get them from my label(s) for $6-$7 and just don't take that big of a profit margin. I do sell them for more in Europe and in Japan (where most of my gigs are anyway) but still under market value and there I double my money and I'm satisfied with that. I'm not sure I can get with the more music more money thing though. Maybe that is a publishing royalties issue but I think CDs are too long anyway. I don't think I'm happier paying $18.99 for a CD if there is 70 minutes of music instead 50. I think 50-60 minutes is plenty of music for a CD with a few exceptions. There is one motto an industry guy came up with that summed up his feeling about the length of CDs and the current crop of new jazz artists; twice the music, half the talent. I, of course don't agree with this though I do see the point at times. Some re-issue LPs on CD and sell them for $18.99 so a CD could conceivably cost twice as much as the LP issue. What was the introductory price for CDs when they were first introduced, $14.99? Still a bit of a markup from what LPs cost and within a couple of years of their introduction they were cheaper to manufacture but the price stayed the same or went up. If I go to Amazon, my new CD is $18.99 and most Blue Note re-issues are under $10. While I'm on a smaller label and it is hard for them to compete with the majors, that is a huge price difference and I'm certainly the more unknown entity that needs the price reduction so someone might take a chance on me. I shop and I don't take any chances at $18.99. I'll take a few at $9.99 at the used CD shop though. When the Bad Plus released their first CD on Sony, the CD had a list price of $9.99 which really capitalized on the hype they were getting. People were reading about them and hearing about them and were more likely to investigate at $9.99 then $15.99. It helped launch them.

You know, coming from a rock backround and other varied influences before I got into Jazz, hearing all the electric Miles stuff wasn't that big of a leap for me and I loved most of it upon first listen especially On The Corner, Big Fun, Get Up With It and Live Evil. Perhaps the only ones I didn't absolutely love were Agartha and Pangea. I wasn't really influenced by all the world influences in this much but loved the grooves and of course Miles' playing on top of them. The "Lost Quintet" of 1969 is the music that has had the strongest impact on me though. The energy they bought to the music is some of the most intense playing I've probably ever heard from any band rooted in Jazz and this is the energy I'm going for in my new group. The music itself might not be as strong of an influence but the power and impact of how this music is presented is how I want to my stuff to come off. We don't seem to be in an era where most are trying to bring it like this and I miss that. I do have to admit that some of Belden's projects come the closet I've heard to this (not Miles in India though) but while Tim Hagans is an amazing trumpet player, I never thought he was right for this (but maybe no trumpet player is, big shoes to fill)

So much to comment on here....and so many of you guys are dead on with your observations. First, that is a big drop in sales from 2007 to 2008 but there can be a lot of factors involved in that drop. There is the Kenny G factor where back in the day, jazz sales would double in a year Kenny G had an album out. Now maybe Chris Botti does this. It could also be that with the major labels dropping out like they have been this drop is a reflection of their putting out a lot less product from one year to the next and maybe to a lesser extent, no Miles Davis box set and that there isn't a lot left out there to reissue. As for the nothing to buy argument, I'm not buying that one. There is a lot of great music being released these days and I'm a pretty tough critic. There is always plenty of new stuff I'm interested in checking out. That is one aspect of this site I wish was more active and that there would be more discussion in the new release forums. There is a lot of new stuff coming out, probably too much and sites like this can be invaluable in sifting through all the crap and finding the solid, interesting stuff and the few gems that do come out. The problem to me has always been this; CDs are too expensive and always have been. All new products and mediums are expensive when they first introduced to the public but if they are accepted into the mainstream, the prices are lowered to more acceptable levels for the masses. This never happened with CDs. Everyone got a little greedy. Soon people who just wanted to get their favorite hit single had to pay $16.99 for the whole CD (that CD single thing never worked) and that created Napster and on and on until where we are today. I was tempted to start a thread about this but got too busy. When the Union Square Virgin in New York closed a while back I went there a few times as they were in my neighborhood. From what I could see, it looked like they sold well over half of their stock at 40% off. At 50% off, at least 70% and maybe as much as 80% of their stock was sold. This is when I bought some CDs as well. I got the new Corea/McLaughlin 2 CD set for $10 and bought a couple of Criss Crosses, the new Dave Holland Sextet CD and a Graham Collier 2 CD set. A week later at 80% off, the place was still mobbed and I found another 5 or 6 CDs I was curious about and was willing to take a risk and get them at $4 a pop new. One thing I found interesting was there were about 30 or 40 CDs left in jazz section at the end and 10 of them were the Aaron Parks Blue Note CD. So, if you can sell more than half your store and it is a huge store at 40% off, isn't that a pretty clear indication that there is a market out there and that it's just that these fuckers are too expensive. In the US, I generally sell my CDs at gigs for $10. That seems fair to me and I'm not selling myself short. The funny thing is sometimes people insist on giving me $15 or $20 for them anyway. It is also clear that CDs are way too expensive in Europe and in Japan. As much as I love browsing in stores, if I lived there, I would probably buy most of my stuff on-line.

CD Trader in Tarzana is good, I always find stuff there and reasonably priced.

Perhaps. I don't think that comparing the Miles/Miller collaborations to the Miles/Evans ones are completely irrelevant. Even with the obvious chronlogical, sociologial, and technological differences, there's a lot that remains similar, not the least of which is Miles lending himself to be the lead voice in an environment created by somebody else, although completely with him in mind, and with his input along the way. Marcus Miller deserves a lot of credit for creating these tracks, as intersting, challenging and varied as they are, just as Miles deserves credit for inspiring them and how he interpreted them in the studio and especially, as you note, live. To me, this is vital contemporary (then and now) music of a quite high esthetic. The one adjustment I've ahd to make to get more into the music is that of the "digital" recorded sound. It's too easy (and I say this from experience) to let the color of the recorded sound color one's perception of the content of the music. Maybe that's why the live material speaks more immediately and fullfillingly to some of us? I think the comparisons between Evans and Miller are apt and I remember having such conversations when these recordings were released calling them the Miles/Gil albums of the '80s. I always thought they were more Marcus Miller's albums than Miles' but that is probably overstating things a bit. Let's just say, to me at least, that Marcus created the best atmosphere for Miles to function in at that period of his life. I think they are beautiful records.

Not that I really care but if I were to suspect someone of juicing, Papi would be on that list. Playing at Fenway helped but he was so mediocre as a Twin. That said, I don't think there is any drug that gives you that ability to come through in the clutch like he did. I'm bothered by the whole leaking of these confidential tests. They were supposed to be confidential and I think it is probably a crime to leak this information but nobody is touching that. Yes, perhaps if you cheated you should be outed but if the tests where taken under the conditions of anonymity then that should be protected at all costs. It's not fair that just a few have been leaked and of course it's just some of the stars so this whole process is smelly. Lawyers working on these cases are leaking this stuff, is that right? The Bonds thing is ridiculous, he tested negative but the government seized the sample and tested it themselves and got a positive test? There is just something flat out wrong about that. I'm tempted to totally contradict myself and say that at this point you might as well release all the names as fair is fair and maybe this will dilute the attention from the few that were outed but ultimately the outing of any of these players is a result of what essentially is criminal behavior and I'm always a little scared when government agencies and other agencies of power operate outside of the law to get what they want.

There was just a piece abut Lenny on one of those HBO sports shows recently. In it he said he didn't owe anyone anything of course. He got his first big windfall selling his chain of car washes for millions. He lived the life too since then, 10 million dollar plus house, fancy cars etc. and was quite successful investing etc until the stock market tanked and it hit him hard but he basically ignored the warning signs etc. He was asked in the interview how he figured all this finance stuff out to initially make all this money and Lenny answered, invest with me and I'll show you. Mind you this was while he was already being sued and owed all these folks money......

Thought we'd try this once at least...... Hope some of you can make it Iridium Jazz Club presents Hubtones: The Music of Freddie Hubbard Bobby Hutcherson- Vibraphone (June 12-14) Nicholas Payton- Trumpet (June 11 and 12) Curtis Fuller- Trombone (June 13 and 14) James Spaulding- Alto Sax Craig Handy- Tenor Sax (June 11-13) Javon Jackson- Tenor Sax (June 14) David Weiss- Trumpet George Cables- Piano (June 11 and 12) Mulgrew Miller- Piano (June 13 and 14) Dwayne Burno- Bass Lenny White- Drums (June 11 and 12) Louis Hayes- Drums (June 13 and 14) Thursday- Sunday, June 11-14 at Iridium Jazz Club 1650 Broadway (at 51st Street) (212)582-2121 http://www.iridiumjazzclub.com/ Sets at 8:30 and 10:30 pm

Damn Jim, how old do you think I am..... I did one Japanese tour with the band in December 1995 and none of those guys were there. I knew Johnny Coles did the band but didn't know that Don Wilkerson did it and I don't know Mark Van Sickle. Rudy had already done the band for years when I did it and the other tenor player (Al something I think) was there for a while as well so I don't know when Wilkerson could have done it but it was long before I made my brief appearance. The only guys that were there when I was that seemed to have been there for a while where the two tenor players, the alto player/music director (Al Jackson was his name I think) and the organ player (I think his name was Earl). I guess it's all a blur to me at this point. NTSU alumni James Farnsworth was in the band at the time. I left NTSU in 1986 by the way.....

Actually according to what I've heard from various sources, at some point Alfred did pay guys for rehearsals.....

I worked with Rudy in Ray Charles' band. Rudy was there for years I believe. I heard he passed away a few years ago but I'm not entirely certain. I used Doug Sides on a Cookers gig last year. He does live in Germany and he did sound great on the gig.

Well, we asked him to speak....I don't expect he'll play Below is a more updated list " To Freddie With Love " The Freddie Hubbard Memorial Please join Freddie's widow Briggie, his son Duane, his musical director and friend David Weiss as well as: Donald Byrd, Cedar Walton, Louis Hayes, Charles Tolliver, Gary Bartz, Slide Hampton, Jimmy Heath, Billy Harper, Joe Chambers, Wallace Roney, Buster Williams, Lenny White, Stanley Crouch, Randy Brecker, Javon Jackson, Christian McBride, Carl Allen, Reggie Workman, Joe Lovano, George Cables, Russell Malone, Jeremy Pelt, Vincent Herring, Larry Ridley, Killer Ray Appleton, Howard Johnson, George Coleman, Jimmy Owens, Pete "LaRoca" Sims, The New Jazz Composers Octet (David Weiss, Myron Walden, Jimmy Greene, Steve Davis, Norbert Stachel, Xavier Davis, Dwayne Burno, and E.J. Strickland) along with many others- the list is getting longer each day... Date: Monday May 4th Time: 6:30 pm - 9:30 pm Place: The Cathedral Church of St. John the Divine 1047 Amsterdam Avenue New York, New York 10025 The Cathedral is located at 112th Street and Amsterdam Avenue, one block east of Broadway. The Jazz Foundation took care of Freddie during his times of illness. A tax deductible donation can be made in his name to the Jazz Foundation of America. Aside from helping to make this possible, you will be saving hundreds of great artists in crisis. 1600 emergency cases a year. Saving jazz and blues... One musician at a time. The family asks that donations be made in Freddie's name to the Jazz Foundation of America: Donations online: www.jazzfoundation.org or make checks payable: Jazz Foundation of America 322 West 48th Street 6th floor New York City 10036 Attn: In honor of Freddie Hubbard Special thanks to St. John the Divine for all they are doing to make this possible.

Well the lie thing..... I don't have a big problem with musicians lying to themselves so much, that self-delusion can be motivating. If they believe they are doing something and continue to work hard fueled by that belief than hey, more power to them. If you want to dress like it's 1948 as well then, I don't know, as long as your happy I guess. The problem to me are the ones who believe their own press without the slightest hint of irony and act accordingly. Ego is a tricky thing but if you are not smart enough to take all the attention with a grain of salt and not let it deter you from whatever path you originally were on then you deserve whatever inevitable downturn in attention you get. Hype giveth and hype taketh away. There are few exceptions but eventually they will stop writing about you unless you continue (or begin) to be interesting. If your star was made by record labels and publicists and you believe the hype and get lazy or stop growing then there won't be much to cushion your fall from grace. One of the ironies of this is that many of the second generation of young lions are just coming into their own now, most of them ten years removed from their last record on a major label. As for the college thing, me and Freddie Hubbard used to have this argument often and it started on during an on air interview at a college radio station. He didn't think going to school to learn jazz was useful or helpful in any way mostly I think because the folks who did this, came out with no personality of their own in his opinion. My argument was that this was perhaps true to a point but if you had the talent and you were going to get it, that you would get it despite the perceived harm studying at a college would do. I think he might be right though at this point though there are exceptions of course. I see a lot of young guys who seem to absorb the language of this music very quickly, some at an amazing rate actually but then as Jim said, they don't ultimately know what to do with it (or even know they are supposed to do something with it). How do you learn to be a bandleader if you've never worked in a band with a true bandleader. Now there are some with a real conception that have a strong enough vision to pull something off but this is rare. If you have enough talent or a look or something to get signed by a record company at a young age and you've never really led a band before but now you have 50- 100 dates a year as a leader and some at major jazz festivals, do you figure something out and grow into the role or do you just get a little better because you have some talent and you are playing more often. Do you develop a group sound because you are able to use the same guys for all these gigs or does your group just sound a little better because you have all these gigs together and can't help but improve a little bit but you have no real great bandleading skills or real group conception so you probably can't soar to the heights that a group with a strong conception and purpose would do with the same amount of work. Does it work anyway because of the press and the hype and because there aren't that many killing acts on the same program to put this to shame. Is that as big of a problem for the public perception of this music as J@LC?

Well, maybe..... I think if you are going to play in an older style (which is just about every style by now) than you should play with the best musicians from that era. That's what I miss about the apprenticeship system and makes me ask this question. If you played with Art Blakey, Elvin Jones, Tony Williams or Horace Silver for a few years than does this make that music your native language even if you came up in another era. I don't see the point of playing music from another era with my peers or subsequent generations (except at jam sessions I guess but that's more about exercise for me) but I do play in a group with Billy Harper, Eddie Henderson, George Cables, Cecil McBee and Billy Hart on a regular basis. If I live and breath this music with these guys (and also working with Freddie Hubbard and Charles Tolliver) is it my native tongue or am I just getting more fluent in a foreign language even if playing with these guys helps me develop my own voice. If I take these lessons and experience and apply them to my bands with my own original conception and my own compositions does it make my work less original because of my experience with these guys? I'm not sure I can convince myself of anything but the point is I think, is to get there, whatever that there is and there are many paths to this, some that might take you off in the wrong direction but again as long as you get there eventually that should be good enough, no?

I feel I can comment on the Dorham part of this a bit.... As a trumpeter, I think if you are going to play in the be-bop/hard-bop element or at least master it's language than Kenny Dorham harmonically is about the most important trumpeter to study. I certainly transcribed him more than anyone else in college. Early Dorham had elements of Gillespie and Navarro and probably Miles but it gets blurry at times as to who is learning from who as except for Gillespie, they all seem to have common traits that can be attributed to any of them though Navarro is probably the strongest influence. Any trumpet player I ever talked to from that era (mostly Tommy Turrentime) were most in awe of Navarro. To me, and I can be wrong about this but Kenny Dorham seemed to come into his own when he was in Max Roach's band with Sonny Rollins. Suddenly you hear him being much more harmonically complex and using tri-tone subs to greater effect and basically turning into the Dorham that you hear for the next ten years or so. It could be a coincidence or timing, perhaps he just got certain things together during this time or perhaps hanging with Rollins opened him up a bit (remember, Dorham started on tenor sax, which might have something to do with his conception as well). I think Dorham's unique tone had developed way before this, certainly by his first records under his own name and when he was with Art Blakey but the harmonic complexity came later and my theory is the Rollins influence might have had a hand in this. Or maybe people just develop at different paces. Almost everyone from that period started out sounding like someone else. I guess it's just a matter of how fast you got away from that and developed your own voice.

sorry, my typo - fixed above. no relation to Strata East, then? Don't know the exact details but it was to be a partnership of sorts. Strata was first and Strata East was to be the East Coast leg of the organization. It never panned out though they kept the Strata-East name. The Detroit folks would know better than me but Cox and company apparently put on a lot of concerts, bringing out all the heavyweights from New York in the late '60s early '70s. I believe Tolliver and Music Inc performed there and that was the start of this. A shame about Kenny. I spoke to him a few times and he was a really sweet and helpful guy. The band of course was incredible but we've talked about this before I believe...... I have the Strata LP of the group, looser and more electric than the Blue Notes....

This is absolutely not true. I just spoke to his wife less than an hour ago upon her return from the hospital (which I do almost every day). He's still alive and kicking. Not much change in his condition at this point.

Go to this page http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...mp;#entry859576 and see how you can donate to a good cause and receive a copy of this CD as a bonus........

Last one I could find.....