Alon Marcus

David Murray

226 posts in this topic

On second and third listens I still like this quite a bit. It's one of Murray's best recordings of recent years (his group sounds terrific), plus Hal Singer plays very well, and quite adventurously. Maybe in the few spots his breath falls a little short, but really he's pretty awesome at 91.

I got this from dustygroove.

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There was a beautiful promo-video around... definitely one to get, thanks for the endorsement!

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Ordered yesterday.

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They also mean that his swing is funny. And that's something that still bugs me about him. He can swing his rapid-fire shit like a mofo, but his eighth notes still sound funny to me. And I don't know if he's yet to discover that between the eight & thirty-second notes lie the sixteenth note... But still, he does what he does and I have to think that his sense of swing is his own. If he really wanted it to be otherwise, it would be by now.

And elsewhere:

What I do find a bit tiring about Hawk sometimes, is his rather stiff phrasing. While harmonically, he's all over the place and then some, his phrases consisting almost entirely of eights can be a bit exhaustive.

I used to have the same "problem" w/Hawk when I first started checking him out, but when I wasn't looking, it all fell into place fr me and I started hearing the other things in his playing that I still marvel at, notably the way that his tone fits inside his lines perfectly, and how even though his lines are predominately steady eith note oriented (but not as consistently as you might think, depending on the session), his accents and subtle-but-very-real tonal variations create a tension/release within those eight notes (and within his harmonic dissections) that is quite engaging once one becomes aware of it (and it's not always obvious, that's for sure).

I'm just a listener, not a musician. Do Murray and Hawkins's rhythmic approaches have anything in common?

Guy

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Nah Guy, Murray just isn't all so much that he thinks he is.

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On second and third listens I still like this quite a bit. It's one of Murray's best recordings of recent years (his group sounds terrific), plus Hal Singer plays very well, and quite adventurously. Maybe in the few spots his breath falls a little short, but really he's pretty awesome at 91.

I got this from dustygroove.

Nice CD.

I have it too.

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On second and third listens I still like this quite a bit. It's one of Murray's best recordings of recent years (his group sounds terrific), plus Hal Singer plays very well, and quite adventurously. Maybe in the few spots his breath falls a little short, but really he's pretty awesome at 91.

I got this from dustygroove.

Nice CD.

I have it too.

This CD caused me to buy a couple of Lafayette Gilchrist leader dates on Hyena, 3 (2007) and Soul Progressin' (2008)--both are good, but that seems to be the last from him as a leader.

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They also mean that his swing is funny. And that's something that still bugs me about him. He can swing his rapid-fire shit like a mofo, but his eighth notes still sound funny to me. And I don't know if he's yet to discover that between the eight & thirty-second notes lie the sixteenth note... But still, he does what he does and I have to think that his sense of swing is his own. If he really wanted it to be otherwise, it would be by now.

And elsewhere:

What I do find a bit tiring about Hawk sometimes, is his rather stiff phrasing. While harmonically, he's all over the place and then some, his phrases consisting almost entirely of eights can be a bit exhaustive.

I used to have the same "problem" w/Hawk when I first started checking him out, but when I wasn't looking, it all fell into place fr me and I started hearing the other things in his playing that I still marvel at, notably the way that his tone fits inside his lines perfectly, and how even though his lines are predominately steady eith note oriented (but not as consistently as you might think, depending on the session), his accents and subtle-but-very-real tonal variations create a tension/release within those eight notes (and within his harmonic dissections) that is quite engaging once one becomes aware of it (and it's not always obvious, that's for sure).

I'm just a listener, not a musician. Do Murray and Hawkins's rhythmic approaches have anything in common?

Guy

If there are any, I don't think there's any meaningful comparisons to be made of them.

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On second and third listens I still like this quite a bit. It's one of Murray's best recordings of recent years (his group sounds terrific), plus Hal Singer plays very well, and quite adventurously. Maybe in the few spots his breath falls a little short, but really he's pretty awesome at 91.

I got this from dustygroove.

Nice CD.

I have it too.

I agree, one of Murray's best recordings for ages. Maybe because it's such a straight ahead date. But then I'm a big fan.

Edited by JohnS

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I called it quits with Murray after the Sacred Ground CD. Ishmael Reed is such a huge turnoff. This guy is so full of himself and so angry it's pathetic. If he's such a towering intellectual, why can't he figure out that R. Crumb is not a racist?

Edited by starthrower

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Thanks Jim. Your comments on both threads seemed superficially similar to me, so I was curious.

They also mean that his swing is funny. And that's something that still bugs me about him. He can swing his rapid-fire shit like a mofo, but his eighth notes still sound funny to me. And I don't know if he's yet to discover that between the eight & thirty-second notes lie the sixteenth note... But still, he does what he does and I have to think that his sense of swing is his own. If he really wanted it to be otherwise, it would be by now.

And elsewhere:

What I do find a bit tiring about Hawk sometimes, is his rather stiff phrasing. While harmonically, he's all over the place and then some, his phrases consisting almost entirely of eights can be a bit exhaustive.

I used to have the same "problem" w/Hawk when I first started checking him out, but when I wasn't looking, it all fell into place fr me and I started hearing the other things in his playing that I still marvel at, notably the way that his tone fits inside his lines perfectly, and how even though his lines are predominately steady eith note oriented (but not as consistently as you might think, depending on the session), his accents and subtle-but-very-real tonal variations create a tension/release within those eight notes (and within his harmonic dissections) that is quite engaging once one becomes aware of it (and it's not always obvious, that's for sure).

I'm just a listener, not a musician. Do Murray and Hawkins's rhythmic approaches have anything in common?

Guy

If there are any, I don't think there's any meaningful comparisons to be made of them.

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Well, you gotta realize that "swing" was still very much a to-be-defined quantity when Hawk came up. Louis & Bechet had pretty much defined the quarter note, but the eight note was still open for negotiation, if you know what I mean. Murray's working in significantly more "clarified" times.

Which is not to say that he doesn't swing, just that his swing is definitely on the outer edge of defined parameters in a time where those parameters have been in place for more than a little while, But like I said, as funny as it (and his tone and his vibrato) still seem to me sometimes, he's been doing it the same way for so long and so consistently that he must mean it, and he has continued to develop his skills to a pretty damn high level, so hey - he needs not defend himself afaic.

But Hawk? Hell, Hawk thought like a cello player, played in territory bands, and just got out there and DID it in a way and place where it pretty much hadn't been done yet. Father Of MY Country (although Prez is my country's Heart & Soul, Hawk remains its Father)! Whole 'nother thing, that is, what Hawk did.

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Anyone checked his FB page recently? Mr Murray is offering saxophone lessons in the NYC region.!.!

Going to see him in the Amsterdam Bimhuis with Ingebrigt Haker Flaten and Paal Nilssen Love. Sounds like a dream group to me. I prefer Murray over Mats Gustafson anyway.

 

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9 hours ago, Pim said:

Anyone checked his FB page recently? Mr Murray is offering saxophone lessons in the NYC region.!.!

Going to see him in the Amsterdam Bimhuis with Ingebrigt Haker Flaten and Paal Nilssen Love. Sounds like a dream group to me. I prefer Murray over Mats Gustafson anyway.

Would be interesting to hear modern-day Murray in this kind of space...

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Shit, that would be good to hear. I saw him not too long ago with Kahil El'Zabar and he sounded great.

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Saw him with JD Allen in January at the NYC Winter Jazzfest. A real blowing session!

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Working my way through the Murray Black Saint boxes... “Morning Song” is a really great session!  Highly recommended.

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17 minutes ago, Guy Berger said:

Working my way through the Murray Black Saint boxes... “Morning Song” is a really great session!  Highly recommended.

:tupHicks + Workman + Blackwell:tup ....

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54 minutes ago, Guy Berger said:

Working my way through the Murray Black Saint boxes... “Morning Song” is a really great session!  Highly recommended.

You should do a Google search of past Organissimo discussion of Morning Song and David Murray's abilities (at that point in time). LOL! :lol: Harsh. 

I like the Black Saint albums, by the way.

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1 hour ago, erwbol said:

You should do a Google search of past Organissimo discussion of Morning Song and David Murray's abilities (at that point in time). LOL! :lol: Harsh. 

I like the Black Saint albums, by the way.

I remember that, it was amusing

Edited by Guy Berger

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This Saturday in Baltimore, caught David with special guests Archie Shepp, Grachan Moncur III and Dave Burrell. They were in town for the Paris/Algiers conference at Johns Hopkins. I was in the front row.

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11 minutes ago, bertrand said:

This Saturday in Baltimore, caught David with special guests Archie Shepp, Grachan Moncur III and Dave Burrell. They were in town for the Paris/Algiers conference at Johns Hopkins. I was in the front row.

That's a hell of a line up. How was Moncur?

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24 minutes ago, bertrand said:

This Saturday in Baltimore, caught David with special guests Archie Shepp, Grachan Moncur III and Dave Burrell. They were in town for the Paris/Algiers conference at Johns Hopkins. I was in the front row.

:o

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Posted (edited)

Listening to THE HILL w/Richard Davis and Joe Chambers.  Really good, one of my fave of Murray’s later Black Saints.  Davis en fuego.

Edited by Guy Berger

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