Jazz CD sales down by 80% since 2001!

[A Lark Ascending]

http://www.jazzfm.com/features/jazz-cd-sales-down/ Edited July 24, 2009 by Bev Stapleton

[Rooster_Ties]

Doesn't help that there isn't shit worth buying (new releases, or interesting reissues), almost anywhere to be found. And even when there was (5 or 6 years ago), local retailers didn't and still don't stock shit -- even bread 'n' butter Blue Note reissues (not even RVG's, let alone Conns).

Can't buy stuff, when there isn't stuff to buy. Chicken?? or Egg?? You tell me.

But one thing's for sure -- it isn't "all the kids downloading" that's killing jazz CD sales. They weren't buying jazz to begin with.

10 years ago I used to buy two or three CD's a week, many weeks (in an actual store) -- but now I'm lucky to find one jazz CD per month to buy (new or used) in actual stores around here (Kansas City).

Chicken or Egg??

[Chuck Nessa]

You have no idea how important it is to see some graph telling me why my business sucks.

My sales have plummeted, even from members of this site.

I will spend over $X0,000 in the next 4 months to issue more material from my catalog and expect minimal sales. I'm doing it 'cause I want the best possible versions of my stuff available.

I will have one 2 disc set and 2 single cds before the end of the year.

Kind of hard to risk my money beyond that.

Doesn't help that there isn't shit worth buying (new releases, or interesting reissues), almost anywhere to be found. And even when there was (5 or 6 years ago), local retailers didn't and still don't stock shit -- even bread 'n' butter Blue Note reissues (not even RVG's, let alone Conns).

Can't buy stuff, when there isn't stuff to buy. Chicken?? or Egg?? You tell me.

But one thing's for sure -- it isn't "all the kids downloading" that's killing jazz CD sales. They weren't buying jazz to begin with.

10 years ago I used to buy two or three CD's a week, many weeks (in an actual store) -- but now I'm lucky to find one jazz CD per month to buy (new or used) in actual stores around here (Kansas City).

Chicken or Egg??

Rooster don't have a clue. Thanks.

[mikeweil]

I know the guy who runs the jazz and classical CD departments in Frankfurt's biggest media store - I'll ask him about his figures next time I see him.

No wonder labels cut their rreissue activities ... kudos to Chuck and the like for carrying the torch.

[Rooster_Ties]

Rooster don't have a clue. Thanks.

How does the near total absence of even remotely half-way interesting new titles or re-issues, in ACTUAL STORES, mean I don't have a clue??

I thought the crux of this thread was about plummeting CD sales (and/or plummeting music sales). The near total lack of stock in stores is one aspect of this. That was my point, and I'm sticking to it.

There have been, and continue to be a wealth of interesting things available on-line, but I'm guessing most casual listeners (and 'jazz consumers') weren't going that route before, and haven't shifted. For the most part, I think people are spending their entertainment dollars elsewhere -- or, more likely, people don't have nearly as many entertainment dollars to spend.

In fact, if you look at the chart in the article -- the HUGE drop-off for jazz was from 2007 to 2008. Otherwise, sales seemed a bit more flat, though declining somewhat over those years. Nothing else dropped as fast or as far as jazz during the last year that the data in the chart shows.

[Chuck Nessa]

Rooster don't have a clue. Thanks.

How does the near total absence of even remotely half-way interesting new titles or re-issues, in ACTUAL STORES, mean I don't have a clue??

I thought the crux of this thread was about plummeting CD sales (and/or plummeting music sales). The near total lack of stock in stores is one aspect of this. That was my point, and I'm sticking to it.

There have been, and continue to be a wealth of interesting things available on-line, but I'm guessing most casual listeners (and 'jazz consumers') weren't going that route before, and haven't shifted. For the most part, I think people are spending their entertainment dollars elsewhere -- or, more likely, people don't have nearly as many entertainment dollars to spend.

In fact, if you look at the chart in the article -- the HUGE drop-off for jazz was from 2007 to 2008. Otherwise, sales seemed a bit more flat, though declining somewhat over those years. Nothing else dropped as fast or as far as jazz during the last year that the data in the chart shows.

The stores buy the stuff (the labels can't just insert them) and they buy material customers have been buying.

Every cd you see for sale on-line is available to the stores if they just decide to buy it. The stores have made a business choice and didn't buy what you were looking for. This is not the label's decision.

Have I used the word clueless yet?

Edited July 25, 2009 by Chuck Nessa

[Rooster_Ties]

The stores buy the stuff (the labels can't just insert them) and they buy material customers have been buying.

Every cd you see for sale on-line is available to the stores if they just decide to buy it. The stores have made a business choice and didn't buy what you were looking for. This is not the label's decision.

Where did I ever say this was the label's? decision?? I'm complaining about stores who never stock even the most basic and obvious reissue product (the same stores that used to), even when it was clearly and easily available to stock. And had they done so, and made the product available (in store, without a special order), I would have likely bought said product (RVG's and Conns, how much more basic can you get?).

In my experience, the jazz buyers at all the chains (even what used to be semi-decent regional chains) don't know jack shit about jazz. I don't mean "not much" - I mean "Miles Davis and Kenny G" might be the only jazz artists they could mention of the top of their heads. There use to be a dedicated jazz and classical buyer for the midwest Streetside chain. When they got bought up by some conglomerate back east, I think there was one buyer for the entire chain (rock, pop, everything, including what little jazz they bought).

Edited July 25, 2009 by Rooster_Ties

[BillF]

I'd say my purchases of jazz CDs are up 80% since 2001. Nice to be swimming against the tide!

[A Lark Ascending]

The line I find interesting...and suggestive of a major cultural change...is this one:

consumers are falling out of the habit of buying music in stores.

Now those of us who grew up buying LPs and CDs (even 78s) will just seek that music via other means. But what about those who never went through the CD buying stage?

One big thing that has changed is that when I first started buying records if you heard a track you liked you had to buy the whole album...and often bumped into something quite unfamiliar as a result. Even 'Best of' discs were not that common.

Today you can download the single track you want.

[Swinging Swede]

I'd say my purchases of jazz CDs are up 80% since 2001.

Mine too! All of it is bought online though.

By the way, I think I read that CD sales are up 9% so far this year in Sweden. A new law making it easier to track down and penalize illegal downloaders may have something to do with it.

[GregK]

If I had any money I would be buying more (including your reissues, Chuck). I'm barely able to afford paying my bills right now. But, at least locally, there's not much available even if I could buy CDs, and that's with three Borders stores (which used to carry a lot of jazz beyond the usual basics).

[BillF]

I'd say my purchases of jazz CDs are up 80% since 2001.

Mine too! All of it is bought online though.

At least 90% online for me.

[Claude]

BTW, those figures look strange.

Jazz sales are down from 2.6 million $ (2007) to 1.1 million (2008). At the same time, classical sales have fallen from 2.3 to 1.9 million.

- Jazz sales higher than classical sales (in 2007)? Hard to believe.

- I can't imagine how jazz sales would drop by 60% in only one year (2007-2008)

Maybe there is a problem with categorizing the music, so that the figures are not really comparable.

Edited July 25, 2009 by Claude

[Niko]

BTW, those figures look strange.

Jazz sales are down from 2.6 million $ (2007) to 1.1 million (2008). At the same time, classical sales have fallen from 2.3 to 1.9 million.

- Jazz sales higher than classical sales (in 2007)? Hard to believe.

- I can't imagine how jazz sales would drop by 60% in only one year (2007-2008)

Maybe there is a problem with categorizing the music, so that the figures are not really comparable.

those are percentages i believe - you need to know how the column on the right continues to say what sales of jazz cds did (but assuming that overall sales went down this mean that the drop in jazz cds is in fact even more drastic than from 2.6 * X to 1.1*X)

(it's from 2.6 * X to 1.1 * Y where X and Y are the total sales in 2007 and 2008... for X=Y this gives a drop by over 60%, for X>Y it's worse than that)

agree that categorizing might be a problem (like whether you count norah jones as pop or jazz...)

Edited July 25, 2009 by Niko

[JSngry]

One big thing that has changed is that when I first started buying records if you heard a track you liked you had to buy the whole album...and often bumped into something quite unfamiliar as a result. Even 'Best of' discs were not that common.

Today you can download the single track you want.

The Age Of The Album might well have been a fluke. From sheet music to piano roll to 78 to Top 40 and now back to downloading a song, the focus of "western" Popular Music has been predominantly song, not album, based.

[A Lark Ascending]

One big thing that has changed is that when I first started buying records if you heard a track you liked you had to buy the whole album...and often bumped into something quite unfamiliar as a result. Even 'Best of' discs were not that common.

Today you can download the single track you want.

The Age Of The Album might well have been a fluke. From sheet music to piano roll to 78 to Top 40 and now back to downloading a song, the focus of "western" Popular Music has been predominantly song, not album, based.

I think you are dead right there.

At the same time, there has always been an audience for larger scale agglomerations of music - be it sung masses, symphonies, suites, ballets etc. I imagine that audience will continue to be there into the future and distribution will shape itself to provide for it.

[JSngry]

No doubt. I do have to wonder how that audience will be serviced, but I'm sure something will come along.

[JohnS]

I'm one of those who can't find much to buy. In any event I purchase on line now. There's no choice because the jazz racks just get smaller and smaller on each visit to a store. Just the odd Miles, perhaps a couple of RVGs and a few compilations. It's just not worth the effort going to a store, at least in my city.

[king ubu]

I still find way too much, can't buy nearly all I want!

But one thing I noticed is that prizes for CDs from the big ones (EMI, Sony) have gone down quite a bit, speaking of local stores... it was a slow progress over the past 10 years, but in the past year or so, there have been constant "sales" where nearly each and every RVG (and many Conns) would show up, for instance, and the prices they were being offered for were at least 25% lower than usual (before, the prices went down in steps of, say, 2-3% or so).

Anyway, those that complain that they don't find new music, maybe it's time to check out some smaller labels as long as they're operating? For instance...

ACT Music

Ayler

CIMP/Cadence

Dreyfus

Emanem

Enja

ESP Disk

FMP

FMR

Futura & Marge labels

Hat Records

Intakt Records

Leo Records

Nessa Records

Nimbus West

Silkheart

Steeplechase

Storyville

Tzadik

Water

There'd be many, many a dozen of albums on those labels that I'd love to own!

[BruceH]

The line I find interesting...and suggestive of a major cultural change...is this one:

consumers are falling out of the habit of buying music in stores.

Now those of us who grew up buying LPs and CDs (even 78s) will just seek that music via other means. But what about those who never went through the CD buying stage?

One big thing that has changed is that when I first started buying records if you heard a track you liked you had to buy the whole album...and often bumped into something quite unfamiliar as a result. Even 'Best of' discs were not that common.

Today you can download the single track you want.

That kind of serendipity has been steamrollered by technology it seems.

Just walking ever further into the digital fog.

[Tom 1960]

I'm one of those who can't find much to buy. In any event I purchase on line now. There's no choice because the jazz racks just get smaller and smaller on each visit to a store. Just the odd Miles, perhaps a couple of RVGs and a few compilations. It's just not worth the effort going to a store, at least in my city.

Amen to that. With the rare exception of a few local independent dealers in my area, where is the incentive to purchase anything these days in the brick and mortars? The selection stinks which is putting things mildy and the prices are much higher as opposed to purchasing online. I really miss the good old days but I'm afraid that's part of history now. Oh BTW, I hate downloads, but that's just me.

Edited July 25, 2009 by Tom 1960

[sidewinder]

Today's experience in a large English town is getting to be typical I think. HMV of no use whatsoever - not even a jazz section for CDs, just lumped in with Easy Listening/Folk/Word etc and absolutely nothing worth having. HMV is now strictly for the X-Box and Blue-Ray fraternity. RIP..

Then down the road a Classical place with nice jazz selection but mainly second hand. Actual stuff you would want to buy - Hatology, Blue Note, Verve, DIW etc.

The second hand places are now 'where the action is' - always was for vinyl but getting more so (excluding a few honourable exceptions) for CDs.

Edited July 25, 2009 by sidewinder

[BillF]

The second hand places are now 'where the action is' - always was for vinyl but getting more so (excluding a few honourable exceptions) for CDs.

Yes, following my earlier comment that at least 90% of my jazz CD purchasing is now online, I'd add that the non-online element is almost entirely accounted for by one used record store, the inaccurately named Vinyl Exchange in Manchester.

[A Lark Ascending]

I've actually never found it easier - or cheaper - to acquire music than at present. Either via download or online purchasing of CDs. Far greater choice than I experienced in the provinces in the LP/CD heyday. My only worry is how long this will last - either customer desire for recordings will diminish so companies will give up making them available; or they'll become ever present in digital download form. I'm hoping the latter!

I also have no problem findings things to buy...still so much music out there unheard. But you won't find it in even the larger UK cities, except in a few isolated spots. I've not visited a record shop since late May - the still excellent jazz and classical shops in Bath - and that was just a by-product of being in the city for the festival.

[kh1958]

I still find way too much, can't buy nearly all I want!

But one thing I noticed is that prizes for CDs from the big ones (EMI, Sony) have gone down quite a bit, speaking of local stores... it was a slow progress over the past 10 years, but in the past year or so, there have been constant "sales" where nearly each and every RVG (and many Conns) would show up, for instance, and the prices they were being offered for were at least 25% lower than usual (before, the prices went down in steps of, say, 2-3% or so).

Anyway, those that complain that they don't find new music, maybe it's time to check out some smaller labels as long as they're operating? For instance...

ACT Music

Ayler

CIMP/Cadence

Dreyfus

Emanem

Enja

ESP Disk

FMP

FMR

Futura & Marge labels

Hat Records

Intakt Records

Leo Records

Nessa Records

Nimbus West

Silkheart

Steeplechase

Storyville

Tzadik

Water

There'd be many, many a dozen of albums on those labels that I'd love to own!

In addition, Palmetto, High Note, Savant, Origin, Delmark, Joyous Shout, Motema, Talking House, Inner Circle, Sunnyside, Pi, Smalls, Justin Time, etc.