JSngry

Hey Kids, Have You Heard The News? MOSAIC's IN TROUBLE!!!

1,231 posts in this topic

Neal Weiss is big about promoting local jazz artists whenever possible. Thanks for your kind words.

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4 hours ago, David Ayers said:

FWIW, time was on this board when the OP could NOT delete their own thread. It is almost certainly still switchable.

Yes, pretty sure that was the case at one point--that's why I was surprised that it could be done now. 

As for Mosaic, seems as if everybody in this thread is very supportive in one way or another--buy a set as a birthday or Christmas present for a friend, hip others to your favorite sets that are still available... and perhaps Mosaic should look into some sort of Kickstarter approach for developing certain sets, entice a few "angels" to help subsidize some collections that otherwise might not be economically viable for them to do.  At the end of the day, if they have to close shop in the next few years, they'll still have made an incredible contribution to the documentation of jazz history.  (Also, at a certain point, what's left to reissue in the way of big-box-sets from the 1930s/40s/50s/60s?  The 70s and 80s much less tapped, 'tis true...)  I love them as much as anybody and am trying to do whatever I can to help, but the older I get, the more I'm accepting (by necessity) of the whole nothing-lasts-forever paradigm.     

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As much as I'm hoping for another year or few, seriously, what's up with the warehouse/shipping thing? F-ed up distribution can choke your business, if you have any, as quick as anything,

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Errors happen, but an entire week of no shipments? They may want to build some kind of redundancy into their order tracking process. Easy enough fix. 

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13 hours ago, Ken Dryden said:

I have no problem with Mosaic's prices, considering what they do to create their boxed sets. It costs more, but that's the difference their boxed sets and others' sets, much like the difference between a filet mignon at Ruth's Chris vs. a sirloin steak at Western Sizzler.

Do you follow the box bargains thread in this forum? There are some fantastic sets there that are just as good as Mosaic's selling for a fraction of the price. As a for instance, being discussed right now is a 6 CD box set of Django Reinhardt on Vogue. Great stuff from 1934-1951 in very good sound for less than $20. There are labels that specialize in great jazz, blues and old time country box sets at well under $7 a disc, sometimes as low as $2 a disc. It's great to be the best of the best, but you also have to remain competitive. Mosaic is still operating on the same business plan it was operating under in the late 90s. It isn't streaming's fault that they aren't able to stay afloat. You have to move with the market and serve as broad a demographic as you can.

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1 hour ago, JSngry said:

As much as I'm hoping for another year or few, seriously, what's up with the warehouse/shipping thing? F-ed up distribution can choke your business, if you have any, as quick as anything,

 

1 hour ago, Scott Dolan said:

Errors happen, but an entire week of no shipments? They may want to build some kind of redundancy into their order tracking process. Easy enough fix. 

 

Cashflow problem?

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1 hour ago, JSngry said:

As much as I'm hoping for another year or few, seriously, what's up with the warehouse/shipping thing? F-ed up distribution can choke your business, if you have any, as quick as anything,

They've had  shipping problems ever since they moved the shipping out-of-house and sublet it to a business that supposedly specializes in that kind of thing. Seems to me it's probably cost them more. I had an issue a few years back when I received a large order of boxes (some duplicates even) that had been ordered by a European concern (and presumably the Europeans received my much more modest order). By the time it was all sorted out, Mosaic wound up giving me a free set of my choice for all my trouble and expense of sending it back to them. 

Edited by John Tapscott

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9 hours ago, JSngry said:

Your final sentence that I quoted was inconsistent with your initial reference, and did not create a logical association with the reset of you thought. It was like you had these real facts and then created an alternative fact of a conclusion. Kind of bizarre, really, but maybe you were having a bad day or a beer too many? I don't know, do you even drink? Or have bad days?

Here is you opportunity to defend yourself/. Bob is listening. Proceed.

170227.jpg

 

 

 

 

Thank you for reminding me of my wonderful Phillies of the late 60s.  We traded for Larry Jackson and Bob Buhl before the 66 season.  Got away cheap.  Only cost one young player no one ever heard of (Ferguson Jenkins).

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They charged you to send them back? 

I didn't realize their shipping woes were so extensive, or that they had been going on that long. Perhaps they should consider moving that part of their operation back in house. 

1 hour ago, David Ayers said:

 

 

Cashflow problem?

It's starting to sound like the two are intertwined. 

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59 minutes ago, Scott Dolan said:

They charged you to send them back? 

I didn't realize their shipping woes were so extensive, or that they had been going on that long. Perhaps they should consider moving that part of their operation back in house. 

Well, because I'm in Canada, it was kind of messy with the exchange and all that, to reimburse me for the shipping. I think it was around $25 and I can't remember for sure, but I don't think they reimbursed that. But they let me choose any set I wanted for my trouble and I chose the 8 CD Basie Verve set. But I agree that they should move shipping back in house. 

Edited by John Tapscott

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Well, I'm just hoping that it's nor Red Trumpet Redux with Mosaic here...

For all the young people listening in this evening, Red Trumpet was a Pennsylvania-based mail-order house that was fantastic for all kinds of imports, Japanese in particular, and pretty good for all sorts of other things. Then they made a mistake and posted, what, the Miles Cellar Door? set for something like $39.99 and honored the orders that had been placed at that price before the caught their error (some that weasles @ Best Buy did not even consider, not that I blame them, but their tone...).

Anyway, everybody loved Red Trumpet, I bought buttloads from them. And then one day they were gone. No advance warning, just poof, gone, by y'all. I don't recall if they fulfilled existing orders or just credited cards back, but these guys dropped STONE cold dead, right on the spot.

It's a little different with Mosaic in terms of the product offered, but the same thing, whatever kind of delusion/hope you have of staying afloat somehow only to one day realize that it's over RIGHT NOW, that could happen to anybody.

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Same with that site on the west coast, based in Ca, Novato, Ca, as I recall; the name of the firm escapes me at the moment. I ordered quite a lot from them over the years. They were great. But I think they gave about a months' notice. 

Worlds' Records- that's what it was. 

Edited by John Tapscott

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Hey kids, just copy-paste the following in Google's search bar:

cache:http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?/topic/80623-mosaic-in-bad-shape/&page=1

cache:http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?/topic/80623-mosaic-in-bad-shape/&page=2

cache:http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?/topic/80623-mosaic-in-bad-shape/&page=3

cache:http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?/topic/80623-mosaic-in-bad-shape/&page=4

cache:http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?/topic/80623-mosaic-in-bad-shape/&page=5

cache:http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?/topic/80623-mosaic-in-bad-shape/&page=6

cache:http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?/topic/80623-mosaic-in-bad-shape/&page=7

cache:http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?/topic/80623-mosaic-in-bad-shape/&page=8

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Since I'm now a little doubtful the Clifford Jordan and Savoy sets will come back in print, does anyone have a line on copies?

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5 hours ago, John Tapscott said:

I have no problem with Mosaic's prices insofar as they're obviously not making boatloads of money and they're obviously not ripping people off. Production costs are barely covered, it would seem, from by what they charge per CD.  So in that sense I have no problem. It's just that when you get into the bigger sets, the total price for a set becomes quite eye-popping and heart-stopping. I must admit to taking a big gulp of air whenever I push the Mosaic  "purchase" button.

Generally I'll take the sirloin steak at Western Sizzler over the filet mignon at Ruth's Chris and put the difference towards a Mosaic set. 

  

The three to five disk sets and Selects were definitely much easier on the wallet. I have been much more selective about which sets I buy in the last few years. I would love to get the Beehive box, but just can't justify it, unfortunately.

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I remember the 'Red Trumpet' incident and was nearly affected by it. As a risk mitigation approach I've ordered all of the sets still remaining on my 'wants' list from our esteemed European outlet, so that's me sorted for the immediate concerns (and broke :wacko:). I really hope Mosaic pull through this OK but figured that quite a few of those 'in print' sets might well become 'backordered' in the near future.

2 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

Since I'm now a little doubtful the Clifford Jordan and Savoy sets will come back in print, does anyone have a line on copies?

Jazz Messengers still have the Savoy in stock, I think. Probably not for much longer.

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5 hours ago, Bigshot said:

Do you follow the box bargains thread in this forum? There are some fantastic sets there that are just as good as Mosaic's selling for a fraction of the price. As a for instance, being discussed right now is a 6 CD box set of Django Reinhardt on Vogue. Great stuff from 1934-1951 in very good sound for less than $20. There are labels that specialize in great jazz, blues and old time country box sets at well under $7 a disc, sometimes as low as $2 a disc. It's great to be the best of the best, but you also have to remain competitive. Mosaic is still operating on the same business plan it was operating under in the late 90s. It isn't streaming's fault that they aren't able to stay afloat. You have to move with the market and serve as broad a demographic as you can.

To use the one example you mention, the Vogue set doesn't come close to what Mosaic did on Django. The Vogue has only a very small portion of Django's 1930's sides, then jumps to the 40's and early 50's. If you want to know the best of Django's music, that Vogue set isn't the way to go. Very often, the cheap thing is the cheap thing.

Edited by paul secor

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I enjoy Mosaic's drive to get detailed liner notes, music from the best possible sources (even when it means finding collectors with rare 78s or LPs), striving to include every releasable take and including lots of photos. They aren't perfect, Michael Cuscuna told me he was frustrated they overlooked one of the issued takes in the Paul Desmond set, but they have done an amazing job. Remember that they were the first to issue the early Nat King Cole music at the correct speed, all previous issues were wrong.

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8 hours ago, ghost of miles said:

...perhaps Mosaic should look into some sort of Kickstarter approach for developing certain sets, entice a few "angels" to help subsidize some collections that otherwise might not be economically viable for them to do.   

This increasingly seems like the only way this kind of work will get done in the future. It always surprised me that they didn't take my money until the sets actually shipped. But as pointed out many times here, there are a lot of factors conspiring to make to production of lavish physical box sets unviable.

Maybe we need a jazz version of Jack White to get it done for the good of humanity. ;)

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1 hour ago, SwingItTrev said:

 

 

Maybe we need a jazz version of Jack White to get it done for the good of humanity. ;)

We already do - just not recognized.

 

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Received notification this a.m. the Lester set has shipped. Can't wait to hear alternate "Lady"!

Thank you Mosaic.  Q

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On 5/1/2017 at 11:41 AM, mjzee said:

Speaking of... One of the Mosaic exclusives does not contain CDs or LPs but DVDs.  I am seriously thinking of buying this just to help them out:

http://www.mosaicrecords.com/prodinfo.asp?number=6001

I had forgotten about that set, as well as the fact that it's a Mosaic exclusive. I've been meaning to get it for a long time (it's the only set in the series that I don't have), but there have always seemed to be other priorities. Guess I need to reevaluate "other priorities" and come up with the cash while it's still available.

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11 hours ago, hbbfam said:

Thank you for reminding me of my wonderful Phillies of the late 60s.  We traded for Larry Jackson and Bob Buhl before the 66 season.  Got away cheap.  Only cost one young player no one ever heard of (Ferguson Jenkins).

Also Adolpho Phillips, who was a 12 WAR Center Fielder 1966-1968.

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9 hours ago, sidewinder said:

 

Jazz Messengers still have the Savoy in stock, I think. Probably not for much longer.

cool, thanks for the tip. At least I am assuming that "backorder" means OOP in this situation.

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  I think that biggest problem with Mosaic business/customer wise is three-fold.. 1.  Way too many sets on back-order and staying out of stock for extended periods of time.....in order to make money you have to have product to sell.   2. Many of you members of this boards buying habits/patterns......I mean things like not purchasing sets when they first come out but waiting till it goes on running low or last chance,  even though you really want the items in question(or so you say you do).  Also waiting around for 6 months to a year for a 10 % sale or free-shipping or whatever.  Some of you act like that miniscule amount of savings is going to change your life. 3. It's obvious as evidenced by these Mosaic buying habit/patterns that it is not about the music for the most part, but is more about buying a collectible......a fetish of sorts.  So as a result the typical Mosaic buyer waits and waits and waits but lo and behold because as of late things go on back-order for 2 years  it's coming back to bite the typical Mosaic buyer in the ass.

   The problem now is that's it's now going to bite all of us in the ass.

Edited by bigbandrecord

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