Dmitry

Blue Note's TONE POET series.

365 posts in this topic

16 hours ago, Pim said:

Looks like I am going to save a lot of money. Already have most titles and the ones I have not are not really ones I am interested in. Hoped for a nice reissue of Bobby Hutcherson’s Patterns which is pretty hard to find in any format these days. 
 

for Curtis Amy I probably grab the mosaic select instead. Only one I’ll add to my wishlist is the Joe Pass LP

I have the Joe Pass on a 60's UK edition. It's ok but doesn't set the heather on fire.

 

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The Mosaic version of the Pass will do for me. 

I have a Pacific Jazz orig. and Affinity of the Curtis Amy and definitely don’t need a 3rd. Or 4th - taking into account the Select.

Might well ‘Pass’ on the whole lot.

Edited by sidewinder

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15 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Hill's 'Passing Ships' will be a three-sided album with a playing time of 47 and a half minutes. EU Amazon price: 55 Euro. This is a title I would have been interested in, but it's simply too expensive. 

 

15 hours ago, JSngry said:

"Passing Ships" is great music, but the original recording was a little "unfinished" in terms of mixing and balance. I really don't see what value is added by LP, except for packaging (can't argue that, even if I can argue the price). Otherwise, get the CD and have it all for one sitting.

maybe better than the ‘solution’ to the ‘problem’ of The Kicker...

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1 hour ago, David Ayers said:

 

maybe better than the ‘solution’ to the ‘problem’ of The Kicker...

I would also have considered cutting a 47 minute LP. More than one classic Miles Davis album had a longer playing time, but I don't hear audiophiles complain about those. 

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4 hours ago, Daniel A said:

I would also have considered cutting a 47 minute LP. More than one classic Miles Davis album had a longer playing time, but I don't hear audiophiles complain about those. 

 Case in point - the ‘Agharta’ and ‘Get Up With It’ twofers always sounded pretty good to me.

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14 minutes ago, sidewinder said:

 Case in point - the ‘Agharta’ and ‘Get Up With It’ twofers always sounded pretty good to me.

Yeah, but you know, compression on the end to get the grooves on there, always sounded fine to me, but if you tell them it could be better, they will believe it, so then you get CDs and yeah, they DO sound a little "better", even though it's the same music, but then they want LPs again, and then you get all sorts of weird shit like 45 RPM LPs, 3 sided LPs (and not in audiotechnicolor, and LOOK, there goes/here comes the money, i mean, just play the records y'all, don't worry about it sounding better until you can hear it at all, how much money am I supposed to have to do all this and even if I do have it, maybe I got other shit to spend it one, music and otherwise.

Just sayin'.

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I have been told that Andrew Hill's "Passing Ships" was re-mixed to analog stereo by Malcolm Addey for release on an audiophile label in the UK. I guess the honchos at Blue Note heard the tape and decided to release it themselves. They did compensate the label who initially paid for the work but still... sounds pretty sleazy to me.

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#AskLeonWare

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5 hours ago, bresna said:

I have been told that Andrew Hill's "Passing Ships" was re-mixed to analog stereo by Malcolm Addey for release on an audiophile label in the UK. I guess the honchos at Blue Note heard the tape and decided to release it themselves. They did compensate the label who initially paid for the work but still... sounds pretty sleazy to me.

Pure Records?

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12 hours ago, Brad said:

Pure Records?

Michael Cuscuna didn't tell me who, just that it was a "British audiophile label".

I'm actually going to sell my LP of Hill's "Passing Ships". I've come to the conclusion that Blue Note today is a shitty company when it comes to customer service. They fuck up a record like this so that only tweaked turntable/cartridges can play it, then tell their customers that it's fine - it's your problem. You need to fix your setup. No, you morons - when I can play 100's, maybe even a thousand records with my setup as is, it is not my setup that's the problem, it's your cut.

They should own up to their mistake, admit they cut it too hot and re-cut the damn thing.

The stupidest thing about this fiasco is that they had a whole extra LP side they could have used to cut "Plantation Bag" properly. That way, they would have only had to re-cut side 1 and (an unused) side 4 (which they should have done in the first place).

I think the main problem here is that no one played the test pressing. It would not have taken much to hear these problems.

Edited by bresna

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Interesting. Pure Pleasure haven't done Blue Note before, I don't think.  Not that that disqualifies them from doing so.

One label that did was WallenBink who released the expanded Pearson's 'I don't Care Who Knows It' although that appeared to be a collaboration with BN

I could imagine Gearbox having a try at Hill not least as I know the owner is a massive BN fan and collector. 

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16 hours ago, kh1958 said:

Nope. I'm done pre-ordering these LPs. I'll wait until I hear that they didn't screw up another one before they get any more of my money. They clearly have no intention of ever fixing their screw-ups and that doesn't work for me.

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On 7/9/2021 at 8:12 PM, kh1958 said:

From someone at the Hoffman forums: "But now the issue I experienced. On the last song "I Thought I'd Let You Know" about 90 seconds through (don't quote me on the exact time) starting on the right channel and going to the center and then left is a constant pop. It's not loud but it's very noticeable. The record itself looks fine, and this does not sound like a normal scratch but almost an issue with the tape which I don't believe it is though and more in the pressing itself. I played the same area two more times and it's not going away. It lasts for about 30 seconds or so."

But don't worry, Blue Note will fix... ummm... actually, no they won't. They don't care if they screw up a cut.

Why don't they do test pressings any more? Why isn't someone playing at least one of the first pressings just to make sure they don't press thousands of defective LPs????

Stupid company.

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11 hours ago, bresna said:

From someone at the Hoffman forums: "But now the issue I experienced. On the last song "I Thought I'd Let You Know" about 90 seconds through (don't quote me on the exact time) starting on the right channel and going to the center and then left is a constant pop. It's not loud but it's very noticeable. The record itself looks fine, and this does not sound like a normal scratch but almost an issue with the tape which I don't believe it is though and more in the pressing itself. I played the same area two more times and it's not going away. It lasts for about 30 seconds or so."

But don't worry, Blue Note will fix... ummm... actually, no they won't. They don't care if they screw up a cut.

Why don't they do test pressings any more? Why isn't someone playing at least one of the first pressings just to make sure they don't press thousands of defective LPs????

Stupid company.

Probably because they’re selling out anyway so what do they care. I don’t purchase a BN record (assuming it’s one I want) if there are problems with them. There seems to be a lot of problems with the Classics series. 

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On ‎7‎/‎9‎/‎2021 at 1:00 PM, bresna said:

Nope. I'm done pre-ordering these LPs. I'll wait until I hear that they didn't screw up another one before they get any more of my money. They clearly have no intention of ever fixing their screw-ups and that doesn't work for me.

I have about 20 Tone Poets and all, with the exception of the Andrew Hill Black Fire, have been perfect. I think the Tone Poet series is the best quality and value for new vinyl: great pressings, AAA all analogue mastering, incredible sound quality, beautiful tipped-on gatefold jackets with nice b/w Francis Wolff photos in the inner gatefold. It is a bargain nowadays to get audiphiile vinyl for $26 (list price is $34 each but Amazon always has the price at $26). The issue with the Andrew Hill Black Fire (ptich and wow and flutter isssues) has been well documented at the Hoffman forum and that is the only one I returned due to those very noticeable issues. All of the other Tone Poets I have were perfect in every sense. I know some others have had a few issues with perhaps some non-fill or an occasional pop here and there but I think those are isolated incidents that may happen with any new vinyl, regardles of label or series. I wholly recommend the Tone Poet series. I just received McCoy Tyner's Expansions yesterday (one of only 2 Tone Poets that is not a gatefold) and it was again a perfect copy. I was not very familiar with that album and the music is wonderful.

Edited by pglbook

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No issues here with the Tone Poets as well. Got 5 of them and they all sound great. Same goes for the classic series: nice pressings without any issues. 
 

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No issue with my Tone Poets either.  I really rate the series

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On 8/7/2021 at 0:31 PM, pglbook said:

I have about 20 Tone Poets and all, with the exception of the Andrew Hill Black Fire, have been perfect. I think the Tone Poet series is the best quality and value for new vinyl: great pressings, AAA all analogue mastering, incredible sound quality, beautiful tipped-on gatefold jackets with nice b/w Francis Wolff photos in the inner gatefold. It is a bargain nowadays to get audiphiile vinyl for $26 (list price is $34 each but Amazon always has the price at $26). The issue with the Andrew Hill Black Fire (ptich and wow and flutter isssues) has been well documented at the Hoffman forum and that is the only one I returned due to those very noticeable issues. All of the other Tone Poets I have were perfect in every sense. I know some others have had a few issues with perhaps some non-fill or an occasional pop here and there but I think those are isolated incidents that may happen with any new vinyl, regardles of label or series. I wholly recommend the Tone Poet series. I just received McCoy Tyner's Expansions yesterday (one of only 2 Tone Poets that is not a gatefold) and it was again a perfect copy. I was not very familiar with that album and the music is wonderful.

Oh, for sure, I have some incredible records due to this series. But please don't assume that just because you haven't had any problems, that everything is perfect. You must be one of the lucky ones who can play Hill's "Passing Ships" without any distortion. Congrats. Just don't fall into their trap. The more people that talk like this makes those of us who have had problematic pressings just seem like we're making stuff up. I have been buying vinyl for years. Vinyl has it's usual problems. I deal with them.

I have had:

Andrew Hill "Black Fire" - Distorted piano. Blue Note denies there's a problem.

Lee Morgan "Cornbread" - Double label that tore off as I removed it from sleeve and some warble. The double label is "normal" vinyl production issue that should have been handled with any outgoing QC at the pressing plant. Blue Note denies that there is any warble.

Herbie Hancock "My Point Of View" - Non-fill near one side's edge. As long as I'm careful dropping the needle, it's not a problem. "Normal" vinyl production problem that is clearly visible with one look at the record. Again, no one QCs these things.

Andrew Hill "Passing Ships" - First record in decades that distorts very badly during playback. Clearly cut too hot. Blue Note denies problem.

Yes. There are known problems with vinyl production and some people are seeing them. But many of these problems should not be found in a "premium" LP product if they had a modicum of QC.

The mastering problems are another thing entirely. I get that they don't want to re-cut anything as it is costly. But they should have someone doing QC on a few test pressings. They should not be waiting for hundreds of record buyers to find their cutting problems. And they should definitely not be denying them with so many people having the same complaint.

I am planning to buy Sonny Clark's "My Conception" but I am going to wait until I read enough positive reviews of the pressing's quality. I've been burned too many times by this point. Besides, it not like I don't already have the music on CD - sometimes on multiple CDs & an earlier Blue Note LP pressing, which luckily the case for Hill's "Black Fire", Morgan's "Cornbread" and Hancock's "My Point Of View".

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‘Passing Ships’ on the Tone Poet seems to be a pretty good test for how well your arm is set up. Personally, haven’t noticed any distortion.

Having said that, I played an original of ‘Horace Scope’ the other day. It had a vitality and ‘oomph’ that this series, commendable in many ways, lacks.

Edited by sidewinder

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2 hours ago, sidewinder said:

‘Passing Ships’ on the Tone Poet seems to be a pretty good test for how well your arm is set up. Personally, haven’t noticed any distortion.

Having said that, I played an original of ‘Horace Scope’ the other day. It had a vitality and ‘oomph’ that this series, commendable in many ways, lacks.

I've had other albums where playback has been transformed from distortion to serenity when I upgraded my TT and tonearm. I've always thought that these LPs were poorly mastered in that only the most precise TT set up could play back as intended.

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8 hours ago, bresna said:

Oh, for sure, I have some incredible records due to this series. But please don't assume that just because you haven't had any problems, that everything is perfect. You must be one of the lucky ones who can play Hill's "Passing Ships" without any distortion. Congrats. Just don't fall into their trap. The more people that talk like this makes those of us who have had problematic pressings just seem like we're making stuff up. I have been buying vinyl for years. Vinyl has it's usual problems. I deal with them.

 

I was not assuming anything but, like you, I was just sharing my personal experience with the Tone Poet Series. I am sorry that you have had bad experiences with some Tone Poets. However, my experience has been just the opposite. With the exception of Andrew Hill's Black Fire, I have had nothing but positive experiences with this series. I do have Andrew Hill's Passing Ships and it plays perfectly and is perhaps my favorite Tone Poet (that one and the Sam Rivers and Chick Corea are my top 3 Tone Poets).

I believe you when you say you have had problem pressings. That is a shame and I can understand your frustration. But I have had nothing but good luck with the Tone Poet series.

I received the Sonny Clark's "My Conception" Tone Poet this past Friday. The pressing and sound quality were excellent but the music left me a little disappointed (I was not familiar with that album previously). Not bad at all but it just seemed more of the same BN hard bop. I much preferred the music on Sonny Clark's Cool Struttin' (in the Blue Note Classic series, which btw, is also a great pressing and sound quality). That is just a personal preference, or it it may be that I have been listening to too many BN hard bop records lately  (although I did listen to Sun Ra and Roy Brooks yesterday).

 

 

Edited by pglbook

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15 hours ago, pglbook said:

I received the Sonny Clark's "My Conception" Tone Poet this past Friday. The pressing and sound quality were excellent but the music left me a little disappointed (I was not familiar with that album previously). Not bad at all but it just seemed more of the same BN hard bop. I much preferred the music on Sonny Clark's Cool Struttin' (in the Blue Note Classic series, which btw, is also a great pressing and sound quality). That is just a personal preference, or it it may be that I have been listening to too many BN hard bop records lately  (although I did listen to Sun Ra and Roy Brooks yesterday).

You sound almost apologetic... Clark's "My Conception" went unissued in the US until the 2000 CD came out. It was passed over by every LP reissue program they had until this Tone Poet LP. The only other LP version was a very rare Japanese King issue from 1979/80. There's a reason for that.

Because I am such a huge Mobley fan, I used to badger Cuscuna about this title back in the Connoisseur days and he used to laugh and say, "Wait 'Til You Hear it".

You're likely unimpressed because it's not one of Clark's best. You don't have to apologize for anything. :)

18 hours ago, Clunky said:

I've had other albums where playback has been transformed from distortion to serenity when I upgraded my TT and tonearm. I've always thought that these LPs were poorly mastered in that only the most precise TT set up could play back as intended.

I shouldn't have to upgrade my $1K turntable and $800 cartridge to play any record. In fact, "Passing Ships" is the only record I've ever played on this rig that distorted like this. It is clearly cut too hot.

Having said this, I just happened to have a new Denon 110th Anniversay headshell/cartridge that I bought to have as a back up. When I put that onto my turntable, I had to almost double the tracking force - Ortofon 3M Black is 1.5 Grams & the Denon DL-103R is 2.5 Grams. That played the track back without distortion. FWIW, it also didn't sound nearly as good as when I played it with the Ortofon 2M Black... well, up until "Plantation Bag". :)

The thing is, I've owned many cartridges in my life and the Ortofon 2M Black is probably the best one I've ever used. It sounds great. It plays beat up records without a pop. I shouldn't have to switch to my backup cartridge to spin any record.

You are correct in regards to "Passing Ships". It is mastered too hot. "Poor" is the wrong word. People that can play it cleanly love the dynamics. But cutting it so hot was not necessary. That's what the volume pot is for.

I have to bite my tongue over on the Hoffman forums about the people complaining that Tyner's new Tone Poet LP, "Expansions", is cut lower in volume. I think I know why and I am glad that at least Kevin Gray is reading these audio forums are has adjusted his approach... at least for "Expansions". I wonder if the released cut was his first try at it? :)

Edited by bresna

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Looks like there is a 6LP box of the Complete Ornette Coleman on Blue Note in the works (6 Tone Poets). At least according to one Dutch vinyl shop..

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