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bogdan101

Remember those PD jazz boxes?

94 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, bresna said:

That is correct. Even in the EU, post-1962 recordings are under copyright protection.

However, I was once told that Andorra, where some of the Fresh Sound family of labels reside, are not part of the EU, so they are supposedly still using a 50 year copyright. I have no idea if that is true.

I think it's sad that the US will eventually have an infinite copyright due to Mickey Mouse whereas the EU will have one due to The Beatles. Public Domain is going away.

It was extended to 70 years in the UK, correct?  But the change was not retroactive.  If something had previously entered the public domain at the 50-year mark, it stayed in the public domain.

Agree about Mickey Mouse and the Beatles. 

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"Oh, look a new Houston Person record for $15 or I could get 8 Sonny Stitt sessions of 4 cds for the same price. Sorry Mr Person".

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Posted (edited)

52 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

It was extended to 70 years in the UK, correct?  But the change was not retroactive.  If something had previously entered the public domain at the 50-year mark, it stayed in the public domain.

Agree about Mickey Mouse and the Beatles. 

Copyright was extended to 70 years in the EU; the UK was still an EU member state at the time, but I have no idea how the UK copyright situation is since Brexit.

 

1 hour ago, bresna said:

That is correct. Even in the EU, post-1962 recordings are under copyright protection.

However, I was once told that Andorra, where some of the Fresh Sound family of labels reside, are not part of the EU, so they are supposedly still using a 50 year copyright. I have no idea if that is true.

I think it's sad that the US will eventually have an infinite copyright due to Mickey Mouse whereas the EU will have one due to The Beatles. Public Domain is going away.

European mini states Andorra, San Marino, Monaco and Liechtenstein are not part of the EU. The EU countries are: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain and Sweden.

I'm not sure labels that are based in Andorra belong to the Fresh Sound family of labels; there is a connection, but I don't know exactly how.

Edited by J.A.W.

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15 hours ago, GA Russell said:

Is anyone aware of a PD box or album which competes with the legit?  I can think of only a Louis Armstrong Hot Fives & Hot Sevens box.

Can’t answer that question properly without thinking of the “legit” boxes that WOULD have been issued in the absence of PD boxes.  To some degree the latter drive out the former.

That said, there does seem to be some money in “legit”/ethical, smaller-run premium reissues.  Maybe what we’ve observed, as in other aspects of our society, is just the disappearance / hollowing-out of middle-of-the-road mass market and it’s displacement by budget options and premium options.

1 hour ago, bresna said:

I think it's sad that the US will eventually have an infinite copyright due to Mickey Mouse whereas the EU will have one due to The Beatles. Public Domain is going away.

Agreed.  At the very least I wish we had compulsory licensing.

What percentage of the Beatles’ fanbase is just aging baby boomers?  The value of that intellectual property could drop dramatically in the next few decades.

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15 hours ago, GA Russell said:

Is anyone aware of a PD box or album which competes with the legit?  I can think of only a Louis Armstrong Hot Fives & Hot Sevens box.

 Not currently but I remember when Uptown came out with its exquisitely researched Charles Mingus album, a copy from Europe (the Andorreans I believe) showed up in due course. I remember Chuck commenting on this. 

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22 minutes ago, Guy Berger said:

What percentage of the Beatles’ fanbase is just aging baby boomers?  The value of that intellectual property could drop dramatically in the next few decades.

Pop music is generally not designed to have a long shelf life, but from what I've seen - anecdotally - the Beatles seem to be that rare exception.  

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I don't think any music should be PD. Instead I would like a law whereby any copyright holder who is approached by a third party wishing to license otherwise unused music should be compelled to coooperate. That way instead of a flood of substandard issues of the same material we would be more likely to have professional masters from the original source material and appropriate fees paid. Until that happens I'll support Mosaic, Resonance, Ace, Real Gone etc and ignore the PD merchants. Unfortunately I also miss out on a lot of music.

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9 minutes ago, crisp said:

I don't think any music should be PD. Instead I would like a law whereby any copyright holder who is approached by a third party wishing to license otherwise unused music should be compelled to coooperate. That way instead of a flood of substandard issues of the same material we would be more likely to have professional masters from the original source material and appropriate fees paid. Until that happens I'll support Mosaic, Resonance, Ace, Real Gone etc and ignore the PD merchants. Unfortunately I also miss out on a lot of music.

Let's make that retroactive to JS Bach, or even before.  What do you think?

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53 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Pop music is generally not designed to have a long shelf life, but from what I've seen - anecdotally - the Beatles seem to be that rare exception.  

I agree they’re an exception, but it’s also conceivable that their steady state fanbase, while large, will be much smaller than their current one.

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4 minutes ago, Guy Berger said:

I agree they’re an exception, but it’s also conceivable that their steady state fanbase, while large, will be much smaller than their current one.

Very possible.  It is too soon to guess either way.  The Beatles' fan base may slowly dwindle, as happens sooner or later with nearly any pop act.  On the other hand, in 500 years, they could be viewed as the Bach or Mozart of pop music, continuing to stay relevant to varying degrees.  We likely won't ever find out, unless our brains can be uploaded onto a computer.  

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1 hour ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Let's make that retroactive to JS Bach, or even before.  What do you think?

Ha, should have specified recorded music, but now you mention it...

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19 hours ago, JSngry said:

Uh, slavery (ditched if only at morally correct gunpoint, but it sure looks like it's becoming a luxury missed by those who enjoyed it...and still alive and well in the modern world)?

It's still in existence in many parts of the world.

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8 hours ago, Chuck Nessa said:

"Oh, look a new Houston Person record for $15 or I could get 8 Sonny Stitt sessions of 4 cds for the same price. Sorry Mr Person".

Isn’t this just a fundamental problem with any mature art form?  For better or worse people prefer “the old stuff”.

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Posted (edited)

13 minutes ago, Guy Berger said:

Isn’t this just a fundamental problem with any mature art form?  For better or worse people prefer “the old stuff”.

The point I hoped to make was people tend to go for the cheap stuff at the expense of the new stuff. Sonny Stitts without artist or publishing fees are tough competition for working artists and their partners.

Edited by Chuck Nessa

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Point aptly made.

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Posted (edited)

What would the optimal royalty model look like? It seems as if every model will have some bias. The streaming platforms are "fair" in the sense that creators are being paid in relation to how much they are being played, without extra cost for the consumer, but the amounts are too tiny. 

But also the "old" model seems to have discouraged large scale projects. It would be a better deal to do an album of solo improvisation than a large orchestral thing in terms of royalties vs investment. 

Edited by Daniel A

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Sonny Stitts and Art Blakesly, they made the records with the linear notes.

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How does 21st-century society value music in general or jazz in particular?

David Bowie was right when he said that music is becoming a utility, something you turn on and off like the tap.

Brian Eno was right when he compared the mid-20th-century record industry to the whaling industry of the 1800s - a blip in time in which sociological, cultural, technological, and economic factors all lined up to make a lot of people very wealthy.

Who decides what 65-year-old Randy Weston albums are worth vs. the 2019 album by Joe Schmoe?

Anyone into music enough to post on a forum like this is happy to complain about the inequities, but we are just as eager to hop on a great deal when we see one.  

 

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2 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

How does 21st-century society value music in general or jazz in particular?

David Bowie was right when he said that music is becoming a utility, something you turn on and off like the tap.

I'm afraid that approach to music is shared by a vast majority. 

But it wasn't much better in times when there was only live music. That's what my studies in early music tell me. It's a matter of evaluating and respecting any kind of work and people.

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