Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Gheorghe

V.S.O.P. Quintet-Historical importance

111 posts in this topic

I don't know if I have ever recounted my V.S.O.P. experience. I saw them in Cleveland. Waited patiently with excitement. This was at an amazing venue, a revolving stage. There was a long wait for the band to appear. . . it turns out that Freddie's plane had been delayed and he didn't yet show. Finally Tony, Ron, Wayne and Herbie came out and played two numbers. . . it was such a joy to hear them and see them! My first experience with live jazz of such caliber. And then finally Freddie arrived. He tottered to the stage and it seemed evident that Freddie had had a few as he addressed the audience. They launched into play. . . during Freddie's solo a few numbnuts started heckling Freddie. I distinctly heard one say "Miles would not have played that." Freddie erupted in an angry fuselage of words in return, put his trumpet down on a stool and stormed off the stage. The band finished up that number, took a few bows. . .and that was that.

Great while it lasted!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

R-2826898-1302803901.jpeg.jpg

Listening now. Bass recording is pretty wonky but after a while it stops being distracting. Good album! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, jazzbo said:

I don't know if I have ever recounted my V.S.O.P. experience. I saw them in Cleveland. Waited patiently with excitement. This was at an amazing venue, a revolving stage. There was a long wait for the band to appear. . . it turns out that Freddie's plane had been delayed and he didn't yet show. Finally Tony, Ron, Wayne and Herbie came out and played two numbers. . . it was such a joy to hear them and see them! My first experience with live jazz of such caliber. And then finally Freddie arrived. He tottered to the stage and it seemed evident that Freddie had had a few as he addressed the audience. They launched into play. . . during Freddie's solo a few numbnuts started heckling Freddie. I distinctly heard one say "Miles would not have played that." Freddie erupted in an angry fuselage of words in return, put his trumpet down on a stool and stormed off the stage. The band finished up that number, took a few bows. . .and that was that.

Great while it lasted!

Thank you so much  for telling us that story . 

Yes, I can imagine that Freddie could be a bit choleric. I have read somewhere that he could be a little abusive and sometimes drunk to much or even other things. When he was with the Max Roach Quintet in Europe (I think it was in the mid sixties) and it was recorded (no good sound quality) and at some point he stops his solo and shouts "Jive assed m......" 

He may have been a more "difficult" member of the group , the others always were very articulate persons. 

Well, but to say "Miles would not have played that" is unfair. I think it is quite stupid to think about that group only as Miles´quintet with Freddie instead of Miles. I actually don´t think about Miles if I listen to VSOP or to BN "Mayden Vojage" which also has a Miles-men with Freddie....". 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Rabshakeh said:

Joe Boyd has a story to that effect in White Bicycles.

I had to google it, but sorry to say I will not buy it, since its more about music I didn´t listen to. He says something about Freddie Hubbard ? 

Well I found only a Freddie Hubbard Story in the book "Sounds" by Dutch recording engineer Bolleman (Timeless Records), and I think on that date he was okay and cooperative, unless then Woody Shaw on a similar date.....

Another Hubbard Story is in the book about Dexter, when they were making the Round Midnite Film in Paris and somehow Hubbard couldn´t be found or wouldn´t get out of his hotel. But when they finally had him and he saw the rebuild stage of Birdland he was astonished and said, that nobody had even TOLD him about the film. So he was just sent to Paris without no information......, that´s also quite strange.

A pity there is not a book about Freddie Hubbard. Now there are so many books about many artists, about Lee Morgan, about Jackie McLean, Hank Mobley......, strange there is not a book about Freddie, he would deserve it. 

And there were so many Hubbard fans of my generation. Red Clay was our favourite record, and Red Clay with VSOP........just wonderful.....sooooo great ! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Gheorghe said:

I had to google it, but sorry to say I will not buy it, since its more about music I didn´t listen to. He says something about Freddie Hubbard ? 

Yes. Boyd is an American who discovered / produced lots of major British bands in the 1960s, including Pink Floyd, the Incredible String Band, Fairport Convention and Nick Drake.

It's mostly about his time as a folk rock A&R/producer in London, but he actually started in the jazz scene, running tours in Europe for George Wein, so a surprisingly large amount of it is jazz (probably up to 1/5). He is very respectful of jazz and clearly sees it as being on a higher level than the music he was involved in (save perhaps for Nick Drake).

Most of the jazz stories are about having to coax 60 year old swing veterans out of bars where they'd been having "breakfast" in time to catch early trains, but there's also recollections of everyone from Coleman Hawkins (I think) to Albert Ayler. One of the anecdotes is about Freddie Hubbard turning up late, falling down drunk and very angry to a gig in Europe and cursing out the crowd when it got restless. It was obviously a big embarrassment for Boyd, as a very young man who was supposed to me responsible for making things go smoothly. He is still quite respectful though (certainly in contrast to ISB, whom he obviously though were idiots, or Fairport Convention).

It is a good book, essential for folk rock fans, but less so probably for jazz. 

Edited by Rabshakeh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Rabshakeh said:

Yes. Boyd is an American who discovered / produced lots of major British bands in the 1960s, including Pink Floyd, the Incredible String Band, Fairport Convention and Nick Drake.

It's mostly about his time as a folk rock A&R/producer in London, but he actually started in the jazz scene, running tours in Europe for George Wein, so a surprisingly large amount of it is jazz (probably up to 1/5). He is very respectful of jazz and clearly sees it as being on a higher level than the music he was involved in (save perhaps for Nick Drake).

Most of the jazz stories are about having to coax 60 year old swing veterans out of bars where they'd been having "breakfast" in time to catch early trains, but there's also recollections of everyone from Coleman Hawkins (I think) to Albert Ayler. One of the anecdotes is about Freddie Hubbard turning up late, falling down drunk and very angry to a gig in Europe and cursing out the crowd when it got restless. It was obviously a big embarrassment for Boyd, as a very young man who was supposed to me responsible for making things go smoothly. He is still quite respectful though (certainly in contrast to ISB, whom he obviously though were idiots, or Fairport Convention).

It is a good book, essential for folk rock fans, but less so probably for jazz. 

Thank you for your inside information. Well, yes, it seems that Freddie Hubbard could be a bit difficult. But during that time he was also making some of his most substatial albums for BN and on the BN-documentary from 1985 is is very articulate and has only praises for Alfred Lion and Frank Wolff....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

Thank you for your inside information. Well, yes, it seems that Freddie Hubbard could be a bit difficult. But during that time he was also making some of his most substatial albums for BN and on the BN-documentary from 1985 is is very articulate and has only praises for Alfred Lion and Frank Wolff....

Sounds like he had gotten himself together at that point. I think (on the basis of memoirs and books like Notes & Tones) that the period 1965-1972 must have been an awful time to be a bop-based jazz musician. Collapsing audiences and sales; collapsing interest/cultural capital; no respect from the wider world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Freddie had audience conflicts for a while. He himself told the story of debuting his Breaking Point band and material and clearing the house before the end of the set. That seems to have really dying him.

I don't know that I would say that he wanted to be a "star", but he sure didn't mind being one. And, you know, why not?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Damn phone typing....stung, not dying...jeesh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.