Max Roach confined to home

[Christiern]

Sad to report that Max Roach has been committed to a Brooklyn home by his children. From what I hear (from reliable sources), he is confined to a very small room without television or anything that might make it more bearable for him. He is, from what I understand suffering from Altzheimer's or dementia, but this treatment is outrageous and now some people are getting together to raise funds and give him a more dignified place--preferably to bring him home.

[brownie]

Very sad news. And very difficult to imagine this personification of the spirit of freedom confined in a home.

[BFrank]

Any indication that he is being "mistreated"?

My mother is in a nursing facility with some amount of dimentia. She shares a room with another resident. There is a TV, but she doesn't express any interest in watching. This condition causes confusion and disorientation, so it's best to try and make their lives as simple and uncluttered as possible. In fact, when things become confusing it tends to cause irritation. I've seen that in others in the facility with Alzheimer's.

What I'm trying to say is that we should find out more about his situation besides being in a "small room".

Edited October 16, 2004 by BFrank

[Quincy]

While I am not in favor of confining those afflicted with Alzheimer's or dementia to small rooms without stimuli, you do realize there comes a time when spouses & children are unable to care for the afflicted. It's a hellish disease for the whole family.

If he is in the early stages of the disease perhaps money raised could be used to hire a live-in nurse or assistant and so he could return to his home (although trying to convince his children to do that after they got him out of his house will be difficult.) And it's likely at some point (if he isn't there already) he will need round-the-clock care. Thus I would think the best you could do is to approach the children and offer funds to upgrade his care facilities to something nicer, and as you say, more dignified.

[BFrank]

Do we know that he is "confined" to a small room? My mother has total freedom to go anywhere she wants, whenever she wants. She just resides in the small room.

Yet the reason she lives there is that she does have 24/7 care and frequently needs it.

[mikeweil]

While I am not in favor of confining those afflicted with Alzheimer's or dementia to small rooms without stimuli, you do realize there comes a time when spouses & children are unable to care for the afflicted. It's a hellish disease for the whole family.

That's what I can confirm from the care for my mother over the last months. It can become unbearable very fast, I assure you. 24/7 care can be difficult to establish in private housing - we were able to arrange this and were lucky with the costs and rooming, but were close to giving up when she died.

It's extremely sad to read this, Max was a prime influence on me for a while - but the fact that it beacme more and more quiet around him was a sign something like this could happen. Alzheimer and dementia are very individual in their appearance - some just turn inside, but some people's behavior may became hard to cope with. I wish him all the best.

[sidewinder]

This is just tragic news. As I type this, I have a radiant photo of Max in much happier days looking down at me from the wall. Taken by Cecil Spiller at the Lighthouse, in tandem with Shelly Manne when they were both appearing there. Thoughts go out to Max at this time..

[king ubu]

This is real sad news to start the weekend

[Dan Gould]

It's a terrible story but without a lot more intimate knowledge, we ought not to second guess the treatment decisions of his family.

That is, unless you can prove:

They don't love him and wish him to suffer

He in fact does not need 24/7 care

OR

They can provide that care and just don't want to

This isn't a disgrace.

Its a terribly sad end to a glorious life.

[Christiern]

I did not mean to be an alarmist, I was merely sharing what I heard, and only because it came from reliable sources.

Dan, if what I heard is correct, I think it is a disgrace, even if Max is not in touch with reality. Obviously, I am not alone here, for--as I understand it--there is a move afoot to bring him home and give him the care he needs in more dignified surroundings.

Clem, I was asked to spread the word, so if this is not public knowledge, I think it soon will be. BTW, I am told that Stanley Crouch is involved, so it would not surprise me if he devotes his column to Max this coming week.

[Alexander]

Poor, poor Max.

Our thoughts are with him.

[Dan Gould]

Dan, if what I heard is correct, I think it is a disgrace, even if Max is not in touch with reality. Obviously, I am not alone here, for--as I understand it--there is a move afoot to bring him home and give him the care he needs in more dignified surroundings.

If its a "disgrace" then you must know that his family does not care how he lives out his days, and put him in the worst home imaginable. And since you cannot document that, you have no idea why or how he got where he is.

I'd suggest it is far more likely that one or more of Max's friends came to see him and was terribly distressed at his situation, and decided something ought to be done. I would not be surprised at all if this is a common reaction of people who are not intimately familiar with the situation who come to see an old friend after such a decision is made. I've been to those kinds of homes. Its damn depressing. Its damn depressing to see someone you love in such a poor state, and in such a facility. You may leap to conclusions about how this came to be, but you don't know.

He's going to be "brought home"? If his family can no longer give him adequate care, what good is that is going to do?

Hey, if its a matter purely of $$, tell me where to contribute. But otherwise, jumping to conclusions is ludicrous.

I'll be interested to see what Crouch reports, specifically about Max's family, the decision to leave him in the home, the economic and care factors behind that decision, etc.

[JSngry]

Max Roach for President.

[John Tapscott]

And it's likely at some point (if he isn't there already) he will need round-the-clock care. Thus I would think the best you could do is to approach the children and offer funds to upgrade his care facilities to something nicer, and as you say, more dignified.

I don't know how advanced Max's condition is (and who on the board really does?) Though I wasn't there, the several reviews of the 50th anniversary Massey Hall concert in 2003 all said in one way or another that Max really shouldn't have been there on stage. But having read through all these posts, and having had some experience dealing with family members and clients with Alzheimer's, I think what Quincy says makes the most sense. And Dan is right, too. Let's not get carried away without knowing all the facts, especially the stage of Max's condition. No one lacks compassion for Max. I think everyone of us would like to see him have the most appropriate care under the circumstances.

[JSngry]

That last record he made, the one w/Clark Terry, was too painful for me to listen to more than just a few times. He was "there", but you could tell that something was missing...

Max has always been my hero and always will be. I'm sure that Maxine is trying to do the best she can (if that's who's involved). I certainly hope so.

Here's hoping that a portion of the world is able to give back in proportion to what has been given them by the great, truly great, Max Roach.

Chris, I trust that you'll notify us of any developments?

[ghost of miles]

Max Roach for President.

well, he was already Secretary of Defense so...

7 screaming diz busters clem

... and Miles was CIA.

[pryan]

Max Roach for President.

I second that nomination.

That's quite a tragic situation for Max, a true legend in every sense of the word. I'm going to pick up that album with Clark Terry, even though it may be painful to hear.

Dan - I wouldn't be one to question Chris, especially when you take into consideration his journalistic credentials. Sure, he can't be 100% certain of the situation, but sometimes you have to trust your sources. In this case, it seems as though the sources are reliable (ie. they are not making stuff up).

[Christiern]

Dan, I was told that all of Max's children signed papers to have him committed to this home. I don't know why you are attacking me on this, I am but the messenger. You can be sure that I would not have said anything if I didn't believe that it is so. Like everyone else here, I wish it weren't.

There are apparently people close to Max who believe that there is a more dignified solution, people who are doing something about it--we should be grateful for that. I don't know why Max's kids did what they did--perhaps they did not see any other way--24/7 nursing care is rather expensive.

[Jazzmoose]

Whoa. Hold it right there. "Attacking?" Come on, Chris; you've seen Dan "attack" before, and this ain't it. He's just pointing out that, without more information, and knowledge of mistreatment, your attacking Max's family should be questioned. I agree. At some point in the development of Alzheimer's, a family can't take care of the patient, and to assume that they are evil because they've tried and given up and tried to find professional help for him is really cruel and outdated. Some of us have been there, and it's not easy on anyone. If you have proof that the man is being mistreated, that's different, but saying he ought to be at home without more information as to how far the disease has progressed, etc., just shows a lack of knowledge about the disease and it's ramifications.

[Christiern]

Well, attacking is admittedly too harsh a word, but I sense some resentment in all that questioning. I heard some sad news and passed in on to people who would be interested. Dan seems to be implying that I am spreading a false rumor. Hey, that's "berigan's" dept.

[Dr. Rat]

Whoa.  Hold it right there.  "Attacking?"  Come on, Chris; you've seen Dan "attack" before, and this ain't it.  He's just pointing out that, without more information, and knowledge of mistreatment, your attacking Max's family should be questioned.  I agree.  At some point in the development of Alzheimer's, a family can't take care of the patient, and to assume that they are evil because they've tried and given up and tried to find professional help for him is really cruel and outdated.  Some of us have been there, and it's not easy on anyone.  If you have proof that the man is being mistreated, that's different, but saying he ought to be at home without more information as to how far the disease has progressed, etc., just shows a lack of knowledge about the disease and it's ramifications.

So, it would seem wisest and most fair to withhold judgement of both the Roaches and Chris until (if/when) we can learn more.

Though perhaps the "disgrace" portion of the thread title may be something to be excised until further information is available.

After all, messengers have responsibilities, too. And I'm not sure that hearsay bears the weight.

--eric

Edited October 16, 2004 by Dr. Rat

[Alexander]

This is a different situation, I know, but...

I have an aunt (my mother's sister) who had a stroke at age 17. Although her situation rapidly degenerated, her mother refused to put her in a home. Years went by, and my aunt became a vegetable. She spent her days in a chair in front of the TV. I can still remember the horrible moaning sound she made. In fact, I think I'll remember it until the day I die. My grandmother hired help, but it was almost always substandard. My father tried to intervene at one point, and it drove a rift between him and my grandmother that never healed. Finally, when my grandmother's health sent her to a home, my aunt followed. Today, my grandmother is dead and my aunt is still going. And she's finally getting the care she needs.

My point is that home is not the best place for such people. My aunt would have been much better off had she been committed when she could no longer care for herself. If Max is in a bad facility, something needs to be done about it. But I strongly advise against his being cared for at home.

[BFrank]

I was making the same point earlier as Moose & Dan. I'm not discounting Chris' message or his concern, but I would like to hear from another source before jumping to conclusions about the state of Max's living situation.

[Dan Gould]

Chris wasn't just the messenger-he made value judgements ("a disgrace") without being able to say anything about the reasons behind the decisions made by Max's family. That's what I responded to and questioned.

Now Chris tells us that "all of Max's children signed papers to have him committed to this home" and simply ignores the likelihood that Max's children are doing what they feel is best. Who are we to question those decisions? Until I hear that Max is being abused, or has hateful, hurtful kids who just want him out of their hair and taken care of to the barest extent necessary, I will not second guess their decisions.

Again, if its a question of money, I think we'd all want to contribute to help make Max's remaining time more bearable.

[Guest ariceffron]

IF THATS TRUE IT IS A DISGRACE BUT ON THE OTHER HAND MAYBE HE WANTS TO BE IN HIS NEIGHBORHOOD--- BUT NEVERTHELESS PEOPLE NEED TO RAISE MONEY FOR THE M-ROC. THIS IS VERY SERIOUS. OUT OF ALL THE JAZZ MUSICANS WHO PEOPLE SHOULD GIVE MONEY TO MAX IS AT THE TOP.