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BYG Actuel Series


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#1 Vincent, Paris

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 01:16 PM

It seems that the label Fuel 2000has reissued a good part of that legendary new thing series, mostly recorded in Paris.

#2 Brandon Burke

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 01:57 PM

It seems that the label Fuel 2000has reissued a good part of that legendary new thing series, mostly recorded in Paris.

That is true but there are FAR more titles available through Get Back's LP series than there are by Fuel 2000.

#3 bertrand

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 03:48 PM

Grachan Moncur's 2 BYG dates could fit nicely on one CD...

Bertrand.

#4 Jazzmoose

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Posted 16 December 2003 - 09:39 PM

...and so they do! Just picked up New Africa/One Morning I Woke Up Very Early on CD. I won't say I like it or anything, but after three straight listens, I'm ready for another... :)

#5 Leeway

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Posted 16 December 2003 - 10:23 PM

It seems that the label Fuel 2000has reissued a good part of that legendary new thing series, mostly recorded in Paris.

That is true but there are FAR more titles available through Get Back's LP series than there are by Fuel 2000.

Do you have a link for Get Back LPs?

#6 bertrand

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 03:07 AM

Moose,

I noticed that this came out today. Does it all fit, or did they do an edit? I have New Africa on vinyl (which I really like), and it's about 47 minutes. The other one (which I've never heard) is only about 28 minutes.

Is this remastered from LP or tape?

Thanks,

Bertrand.

#7 Claude

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 03:18 AM

Yes please, some info on the sound of those CDs. I also picked up an "audiophile 180g pressing" of New Africa and the sound is rather poor.

The LPs have been discussed here

Edited by Claude, 17 December 2003 - 09:39 AM.


#8 Jazzmoose

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 09:35 AM

Hoo boy, you guys are barking up the wrong tree asking me audiophile type questions! :lol:

First of all, this is my first exposure to this music, so I couldn't say how it compares to earlier releases. According to the tray insert, New Africa clocks in at 47:10, and One Morning at 28:46. On the other hand, I didn't time them or anything.

I am assuming it's done from tape, as if it's from LP it's not apparent to me. On the other hand, keep in mind that my so-called "system" is only one step up from a boom box...

All I can say for sure is that it is an absolute crime against nature that Moncur didn't get to lead more sessions.

#9 couw

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 09:48 AM

I hope the copy I ordered is underway. Not that my ears or system are any good, but Moose and I can put our two not-so-good together and maybe come up with something decent.

#10 Joe

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 10:07 AM

Some additional BYG's have also been turning up on CD overseas as well, usually in digipak form. Sonny Sharrock's MONKEY-POCKIE-BOO is one (its been in stock @ Dusty Groove in the past)... I think the Alan Silva CELESTRIAL COMMUNCIATIONS ORCHESTRA is another one...

Sure would be nice to have those Jacques Coursil dates on CD.

#11 king ubu

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Posted 22 December 2003 - 05:22 AM

I picked up the Taylor "Student Studies" CD last week - and it is great! Soundwise not, however. I'm no audiophile, but I would like to hear Alan Silva if he's already listed on the cover... Liners by... Scott Yanow (lol - he does not much more than four short bios of the musicians).

In stores here I saw three different series of BYG reissues:
- one on some strange italian label - not sure it's get back, ugly mini-LP-gatefold covers, cheap looking, much overprized (something like 25$ at least). Original LPs, so you pay 50$ to get the two Cherry "Mu"s which could fit on one CD, I think. Crazy.
- Charly reissues, rather cheap, coupling LPs together when possible (I saw the Moncur in this incarnation recently)
- Fuel2000 - covers not bad, sound not great, judging from the Taylor disc.

Anyone understands why there is not ONE label doing DECENT and WELL REMASTERED and annotated reissues of this material??

ubu

#12 brownie

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Posted 22 December 2003 - 06:23 AM

No wonder this Byg label business looks complicated. BYG has been a mess from start to finish. The label was founded by three independents: Jacques Bisceglia, Jean-Luc Young, and Jean Georgakarakos whose initials made the name of the label. Georgakarakos was the money man in the operation. He had made a small fortune producting pop music. He also became notorious by being involved in a number of shady deals inside the music business.
Georgakarakos also started a magazine called Actuel around 1967. The BYG label was launched shortly after. At first they reissued material from the Savoy catalogue. By 1969, BYG was producing the ACTUEL series which released some 60 records, mostly avant-garde jazz. The label went broke after the infamous 1969 Amougies Actuel festival which was supposed to have been held in Paris, then had to be moved outside of France because the post-1968 government did not want a major Woodstock-type festival to be held in Paris or its vicinity. The festival was exiled to Amougies, Belgium, a few kilometers away from the French border. And almost everything went wrong there, except that some pretty adventurous music was produced. There was a separate thread on that festival on that Board a while ago.
After the festival financial disaster, the partnership was broken up. Young went on and created the Charly label, Bisceglia remained independent and Georgakarakos changed his name to Jean Karakos and launched the Celluloid label in New York among other ventures.
I was present at some of those ACTUEL sessions. The Archie Shepp, Grachan Moncur, Alan Silva, Dave Burrell ones among others.
The sessions I attended were held at the Studio Davout in eastern Paris. There were great and usually relaxed gathering of musicians who had come to the French capital in that glorious summer. But one of the problem I remember is that the regular engineer left (this was in August 1969) while more sessions were to be recorded. He was replaced by another (but less good) engineer.
What would be interesting would be if somebody could work from the original tapes. I have not checked on the sound of reissues but am familiar with some rather negative comments on the audio quality of most of them. I have no idea who actually owns those tapes by now.

#13 Claude

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Posted 22 December 2003 - 06:47 AM

Thanks a lot Brownie for those insights :tup

Here's a BYG discography: http://www.jazzdisco.../Labels/byg.htm

An Archie Shepp "Live In Antibes" 2CD release from Fuel2000 is available for only $10 from deepdiscountcd.com. I don't know if it is in stock.

I have the Sun Ra "Solar-Myth Approach" 2CD set from Charly records which is great musically but not technically. I have the impression that the recording itself is flawed, although this suits this music rather well :)

Another good album is Don Cherry MU Parts 1 & 2 which I downloaded from emusic.com some time ago. The recording is not good enough to make me upgrade the MP3s to CD.

Edited by Claude, 22 December 2003 - 07:08 AM.


#14 king ubu

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Posted 22 December 2003 - 07:00 AM

No wonder this Byg label business looks complicated. BYG has been a mess from start to finish. The label was founded by three independents: Jacques Bisceglia, Jean-Luc Young, and Jean Georgakarakos whose initials made the name of the label. Georgakarakos was the money man in the operation. He had made a small fortune producting pop music. He also became notorious by being involved in a number of shady deals inside the music business.
Georgakarakos also started a magazine called Actuel around 1967. The BYG label was launched shortly after. At first they reissued material from the Savoy catalogue. By 1969, BYG was producing the ACTUEL series which released some 60 records, mostly avant-garde jazz. The label went broke after the infamous 1969 Amougies Actuel festival which was supposed to have been held in Paris, then had to be moved outside of France because the post-1968 government did not want a major Woodstock-type festival to be held in Paris or its vicinity. The festival was exiled to Amougies, Belgium, a few kilometers away from the French border. And almost everything went wrong there, except that some pretty adventurous music was produced. There was a separate thread on that festival on that Board a while ago.
After the festival financial disaster, the partnership was broken up. Young went on and created the Charly label, Bisceglia remained independent and Georgakarakos changed his name to Jean Karakos and launched the Celluloid label in New York among other ventures.
I was present at some of those ACTUEL sessions. The Archie Shepp, Grachan Moncur, Alan Silva, Dave Burrell ones among others.
The sessions I attended were held at the Studio Davout in eastern Paris. There were great and usually relaxed gathering of musicians who had come to the French capital in that glorious summer. But one of the problem I remember is that the regular engineer left (this was in August 1969) while more sessions were to be recorded. He was replaced by another (but less good) engineer.
What would be interesting would be if somebody could work from the original tapes. I have not checked on the sound of reissues but am familiar with some rather negative comments on the audio quality of most of them. I have no idea who actually owns those tapes by now.

Thanks a lot for these comments, brownie! Really appreciated. I did not know the origin of the Charly label. And neither did I know about the BYG label.
I'll look for that thread on the festival. Missed that one.

ubu

#15 king ubu

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Posted 22 December 2003 - 07:20 AM

Here's the link to that other thread:

http://www.organissi...880&hl=amougies

ubu

#16 Johnny E

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Posted 22 December 2003 - 01:29 PM

Does anybody know if the Sunny Murray album "Hard Cores" on Philly Jazz has ever been re-issued? And does anybody have info on the Philly Jazz label in general?

#17 JSngry

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Posted 22 December 2003 - 02:12 PM

I think it was called "Apple Cores", and no, I don't think it has been. Good side, though. But it's a LOT more "in" than you might expect. Frank Foster's on it!

#18 Johnny E

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Posted 22 December 2003 - 02:15 PM

I think it was called "Apple Cores", and no, I don't think it has been. Good side, though. But it's a LOT more "in" than you might expect. Frank Foster's on it!

Oh. AMG has it listed as 'Hard Cores'. I'd love to hear it. Sunny is the shit! :excited:

#19 Late

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Posted 15 November 2004 - 07:05 PM

Opinions/impressions of these?

Posted Image

Posted Image

#20 Brandon Burke

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 01:34 AM

Those two Shepps are good, though I like Blase the best. Homage to Africa is the only Murray Actuel that I don't have.

#21 Chuck Nessa

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 07:53 AM

Hommage to Africa is very, very good.

#22 J.H. Deeley

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Posted 17 November 2004 - 08:48 AM

Does anybody know if the Sunny Murray album "Hard Cores" on Philly Jazz has ever been re-issued? And does anybody have info on the Philly Jazz label in general?

AFAIK, the only Philly Jazz lp to be officially re-issued is the Sun Ra Lanquidity cd.

http://www.dpo.uab.e...og/philjazz.htm

The late Bill Lewis should be credited as the artist for PJ1002.

#23 Late

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 01:32 AM

Any thoughts on Sonny Sharrock's Monkey Pockie Boo? I like Sharrock's work, but have never heard Linda Sharrock.

#24 Late

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 01:54 PM

I ... have never heard Linda Sharrock.

Duh ... yes I have. I have the Charly/Jazz Actuel box, which has the track "Soon" on it. Man, that is some funked up shite. Linda's giving birth?

I like it.

#25 brownie

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 03:39 PM

Any thoughts on Sonny Sharrock's Monkey Pockie Boo? I like Sharrock's work, but have never heard Linda Sharrock.

That one is a wild Byg/Actuel! Really far out but you get a good chance to hear the little know French bass player Beb Guerin!
Never really managed to enjoy that LP!
I much prefer the Sonny Sharrock Vortex album 'Black Woman' with Linda too. And accompaniament by Dave Burrell, Norris Jones and Milford Graves!

#26 Brandon Burke

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 06:06 PM

...you get a good chance to hear the little know French bass player Beb Guerin!

When I'm in a Beb Guerin mood I reach for Way Ahead or Scorpio. Not this one.

#27 Christiern

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 08:34 PM

The BYG label was run by crooks, plain and simple. Here's one instance of unsavory activity that I witnessed first-hand:

In the late 60s or early 70s, I'm not sure which, I received a call from Columbia Records. They had purchased some Charlie Parker material from France--several albums worth--and Robert Palmer was writing the liner notes. He was having a problem identifying some of these sessions, so they wondered if I would take a listen.

That same day, via messenger, a handful of LP test pressings arrived at my apartment. I spent the weekend tracking the material down and concluded that it would be impossible for any European to actually own all this. There was material that belonged to U.S. labels, some at that time in litigation, etc. I called Columbia and told them that it was my considered opinion that they had been had.

They seemed quite upset and told me that the Parkers were only a small part of a larger package that included Stan Getz, Louis Armstrong, Ma Rainey... When they got to Rainey, I told them that all her recordings belonged to John Steiner, who had taken over the Paramount material, so, obviously, no Frenchmen had any rights to sell it. Now they were really beginning to sweat, so they asked if I would mind checking out the rest of the stuff.

It didn't take me long to determine that this was all a scam. I called Columbia and told them that they were ok on the Armstrong. "Thank God for that," said the guy from A&R. I added that they were only ok because they already owned it--Jacques Bisceglia and Jean-Luc Young had sold them their own material!

They came t my apartment, along with someone from the legal department, I laid it all out for them and they seemed to forget that I was present, for they spoke quite freely among themselves, They had already paid Young and Bisceglia a $200,000 advance. Next, they called BYG and asked the guys to come to New York, because they needed someone to help identify the various tapes--they did not reveal that they had caught on to the scam.

At CBS's request, I was present for the meeting with Young (who was the only one who heeded the call) when a meeting was held in the legal dept at Blackrock. It was interesting to note how Young's understanding of English deteriorated whenever the questions got tough. He was asked to produce proof of ownership, which he promised to send. The contracts that eventually arrived were from a Stockholm-based company called "Jazzola." There was no such company.

The upshot of this was that Columbia, embarrassed by their blunder, decided to write off the $200,000 and whatever money had already been spent on production (including the rather hefty invoice I presented them with). Fortunately, none of the material was issued by Columbia--that would have generated lawsuits as well as embarrassment.


#28 Chuck Nessa

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 09:16 PM

After I collect my thoughts, I will post about this too. I was a CBS employee at the time and I know one of the guys got away with $75,000.

#29 Christiern

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 11:13 PM

Chuck, can you recall the name of a black guy (they said he used to play bass) who played a major role in the decision to purchase this material? He didn't last long at CBS, but received enormous funding to start his own label--all I remember about that label is the lavish party they had to introduce it. They took over the Fifth Avenue library, sent limos to pick people up, etc.

It was obvious that CBS haphazardly took him aboard because they were looking to "diversify" at that time (remember "Dr." Butler?) and I think they ran the package past this guy because he was black and played an instrument--he had to know jazz. When he saw names like Parker, Getz, and Armstrong, he said "great," not having a clue about such pesky things as rights. Ridiculous, of course, but I think you recognize the early 70s white corporate mindset.

#30 brownie

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Posted 23 November 2004 - 01:59 AM

Chris (and Chuck), great stories. Keep them coming. Since I know a number of people involved with the Byg/Actuel label, there is one name missing here, the mastermind behind it all: Jean Georgakarakos. He was the real crook!
From what I know, I regard the others as plain hustlers.



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