JETman

What happens if that creates a financial hardship [via scholarships or distance traveled to school, etc.] or, more to the point, there is a degree major at Penn State they want? The crime was not perpetrated by them or for any athletic benefit to them. TBH, punishing the students is not the solution to the administration's idiocy. Lawsuits and jail time, however, would be. With all due respect, I think you need to rethink this point of view. Likewise, JetMan. I would ask: How so? Many of my students wouldn't be able to attend college without the help of an athletic scholarship. Punishing them would be an epic mistake. All that does is make the list of victims even longer. Look at it this way: If you had a problem with your neighbor, would you take it out on his kids? Neither would I and neither would most reasonable people. The same logic applies here: Sandusky [and those who allowed him to continue his abuse] are the problem, so why take it out on the student athletes? In short, the self-entitlement of the few is more damaging to society than the ignorance of the many. The longer answer: 1. Are students with God-given athletic talents more deserving of a free ride than students without? 2. Do Division I schools hand out an amount in academic scholarships which at least totals the amount handed out in athletic scholarships? (THESE are supposed to be learning institutions after all!!!) 3. How do I feel when a guy like Plaxico Burress happens to accidentally shoot off his gun in a club I happen to frequent on the night I am there, and the bullet hits me? OR How do I feel when a guy like David Diehl happens to get pasted while watching a soccer game at his favorite Croatian Club and "accidentally" hits my car head on while I'm driving my children to wherever? Get FUCKING real! These idiots are getting free scholarships (ie., a salary) to attend universities and learning nothing about how to behave when unleashed upon society! Is THAT not the bigger problem? Yes, Sandusky is a "damaged" human being. But, I can guarantee you that he's also contributed to the damage displayed by many of his football proteges. Think things through before you say some of the things you're saying.

What happens if that creates a financial hardship [via scholarships or distance traveled to school, etc.] or, more to the point, there is a degree major at Penn State they want? The crime was not perpetrated by them or for any athletic benefit to them. TBH, punishing the students is not the solution to the administration's idiocy. Lawsuits and jail time, however, would be. With all due respect, I think you need to rethink this point of view.

It's always other players years later when the NCAA punishes a team. What does this mean? Why should players even be considered here? The NCAA could just allow them to transfer without penalty on a case by case basis.

One sportswriter here in NY went so far as to suggest a one year ban for EACH of the 14 years that Paterno kept quiet. Seems fair to me.

Tim -- we're over it by now! On to the 2nd half.

We're talking about it today because Penn State released their findings today. Today is the first day we've had a chance to read about it, and hence talk about the report. We talked about the case when it first came into the public eye, and we talked about it during the trial. That doesn't make any sense to you? Have at it. I just think it's a separate and perhaps bigger issue than the topic of this thread. You act as if I've touched a nerve! Does it not make sense to YOU that the average forward thinking human being would be highly offended that money would be more important than the lives of innocent children? THAT in my eyes is quite germane to the topic at hand. Yes, Paterno fucked up, but on a much larger level the system fucked up, and continues to do so, in a more far reaching way. Nobody's engaging me, btw, because of the importance of sports in people's lives. If what I'm suggesting were to actually happen (don't worry, it won't, Vegas is much too powerful), the void would be too much to bear for most.

THANK YOU!

Tangentially germane? In a world where a much lower level of importance is correctly placed on college sports and the revenue it generates, how in the world are we talking about Sandusky's disgusting acts 15 years after the fact, instead of when they were first discovered? I have no agenda. I'm looking at the BIGGER picture. This is something most of the leaders in our nation have trouble doing. The atmosphere surrounding sports at the college level reeks at every level. It's time someone took a closer look.

Past decade? That was from like 20-25 years ago! Beck is not a lyricist, so how does this comparison hold water? And Grohl's lyrics reek of disenfranchisement, which, as a movement, got old as soon as it began.

That being said, Grohl couldn't even shine Beck's shoes (and I'm not Beck's biggest fan either).

Larry, The "substantial developments" came today in the form of the 8 month old commission report headed by the former head of the FBI being released, your two cents and voice of reason post , this is NOT going down the same road; rather new developments based upon information carefully collected with persons clearly pointed out who conspired individually and collectively that allowed 14 additional years of attacks on children to continue. This serves to substantially move information forward which may have been the source for argument among rabid former Paterno supporters, put to rest for all with reasonable minds. Set me straight: what exactly do you get when a former "ardent" supporter changes his/her mind? Do you get to feel good about yourself because you were "right"? I've made my position clear from the beginning. The importance of college athletics to oddsmakers and the general populace alike is the indirect cause of all of this. Anyone with half a brain could see trouble (whether it be in the form of something like this or in any other form you might feel like choosing) coming a mile away. Knowing the mindset regarding Paterno and PSU for years, my only surprise is that it took this long for the whole charade to blow up to these proportions. Now all we have to do is wait for testimonials from the likes of Franco Harris to begin pouring in!

Well said, Larry. AFAIC, not one person here should be surprised at how any of this turned out. (Did anyone really need a report to reveal what the depths of Paterno's or PSU's involvement was?) So the expression of faux indignation then just becomes a huge waste of everybody's time.

Does this mean you're now one of the stunned former ardent supporters? Sports figures should never be ardently supported in the first place. That wasn't the question... Ah, but it really is!

I agree: Bud Selig is full of shit regarding the W-L in the All-Star Game vs home field advantage in the WS. However, if you are interested in winning baseball games, emotional favorites are not who you go with. Here's the line on Dickey: 1H, 1K, 1.00 WHIP in one inning pitched. Cain's the better pitcher today....and with good reason. LaRussa made the right call, IMHO. They both gave up no runs and had an ERA of 0.00. THIS is the only stat that matters for pitchers. An increased WHIP means nothing at the end of the day if it doesn't translate to an increase in runs scored. Appearance in an All-Star game is supposed to be based on performance during that year, not during one's career. Like it or not, flash in the pan or not, Dickey is having a better year than Cain, period. LaRussa's always been an idiot! If status in an All-Star game WERE based on career stats, Seaver would've started damn near every one during his NL career. Cain also pitched two scoreless innings vs Dickey's one inning. I used the WHIP as a tie-breaker. Dickey is a very good pitcher, no doubt. But I would take any of the four picthers who went to the mound before him in a heartbeat. W-L records and one good year don't tell the whole story, my friend. Proven reliability and longevity, however, do. For the record, I'm not by any means a LaRussa fan. His Cardinals have done plenty of damage to the playoff hopes of my Giants. No love lost here. Cain has still not done it for years and years and years. Read what I said about Seaver!

Does this mean you're now one of the stunned former ardent supporters? Sports figures should never be ardently supported in the first place.

Warfield was (and maybe still is) a member of Stafford's quintet. I saw them live and their music is well worth exploring. I concur with the remark above about Criss Cross.

That's an interesting point. There certainly are some cult-like aspects associated with this. Two things are really troubling to me. First, that the Penn State student body supported Joe Pa en masse without ever considering that he might be involved in the cover up. Second, that during this whole sordid affair, alumni donations actually increased. If that's not indicative of some truly upside down thinking, I guess I don't know what is. Having had some experience in this area, I am quite sure that Penn Staters and Pennsylvanians alike have "drunk the Kool-Aid" for years. Did you really expect that way of thinking to literally change overnight? Yes. We're not talking about whether Penn State can beat Michigan, we're talking about raping and sodomizing children. And your point is? Once the institution and persona were deified, there was no going back. Not for nuthin'! Believe it or not, JoePa received a higher level of admiration from his followers than even Lombardi received in Green Bay. So that somehow justifies this sort of ostrich like behavior? That the students and faculty were so anesthetized by the greatness of PSU football and Joe Pa that they could turn a blind eye to child molestation? Wow. In a sea of damning statements, that may the most damning of all. Where did you get that I was justifying the behavior. Just trying to add some perspective on what we're dealing with.

So they'll be posting here when you're gone? Why do you continue wasting time taking shots at everything I post?

Is this the kind of legacy you'd like to think America was built on? The ONLY legacy I'm interested in is that which I pass on to my children.

Are you sure he isn't a bot? * *Back in the days of Usenet newsgroups (does anyone still use them?), highly tendentious and predictable posters were often suspected to be bots... Rumor is that many of Penn State's alumni are bots.

That's an interesting point. There certainly are some cult-like aspects associated with this. Two things are really troubling to me. First, that the Penn State student body supported Joe Pa en masse without ever considering that he might be involved in the cover up. Second, that during this whole sordid affair, alumni donations actually increased. If that's not indicative of some truly upside down thinking, I guess I don't know what is. Having had some experience in this area, I am quite sure that Penn Staters and Pennsylvanians alike have "drunk the Kool-Aid" for years. Did you really expect that way of thinking to literally change overnight? Yes. We're not talking about whether Penn State can beat Michigan, we're talking about raping and sodomizing children. And your point is? Once the institution and persona were deified, there was no going back. Not for nuthin'! Believe it or not, JoePa received a higher level of admiration from his followers than even Lombardi received in Green Bay.

That's an interesting point. There certainly are some cult-like aspects associated with this. Two things are really troubling to me. First, that the Penn State student body supported Joe Pa en masse without ever considering that he might be involved in the cover up. Second, that during this whole sordid affair, alumni donations actually increased. If that's not indicative of some truly upside down thinking, I guess I don't know what is. Having had some experience in this area, I am quite sure that Penn Staters and Pennsylvanians alike have "drunk the Kool-Aid" for years. Did you really expect that way of thinking to literally change overnight?

Yes, a legend in his own mind!

I agree: Bud Selig is full of shit regarding the W-L in the All-Star Game vs home field advantage in the WS. However, if you are interested in winning baseball games, emotional favorites are not who you go with. Here's the line on Dickey: 1H, 1K, 1.00 WHIP in one inning pitched. Cain's the better pitcher today....and with good reason. LaRussa made the right call, IMHO. They both gave up no runs and had an ERA of 0.00. THIS is the only stat that matters for pitchers. An increased WHIP means nothing at the end of the day if it doesn't translate to an increase in runs scored. Appearance in an All-Star game is supposed to be based on performance during that year, not during one's career. Like it or not, flash in the pan or not, Dickey is having a better year than Cain, period. LaRussa's always been an idiot! If status in an All-Star game WERE based on career stats, Seaver would've started damn near every one during his NL career.

Looks like the Williams sisters are back. Really good to see!