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It´s not so hard if one section has at least 8 or 12 bars. Some tunes have 12 bars in the A section, but those 12 bars are not a blues. But it is easy to play this, "The best thing for you (is me)" is coming to my mind. I would have mentioned also "Conception", but this is not a standard I think. I play them both. Playing "April" I must admit I didn´t even think about the form. Yeah, 48 bars ABA but this song is so much fixed in my mind it was one of the first jazz tunes I heard decades ago, so you improvise on it without thinking how many bars it has. "Dear Old Stockholm" .... another example. Everybody knows that since I think everybody got some Miles from the fifties in his collection, so you hear it and hear it and anyway you hear the musicians improvising on it and can start your own chorusses if you choose to play it. "Cheek to Cheek" is another. I think I had to play it once, I mean the changes cause it was a tune based on the changes of "Cheek to Cheek". But it´s hard for me to play asymetrical bar numbers. That means a lot of listening until you know it , I mean in such a manner that you can blow your chorusses on it. Maybe it´s easier if you blow if you have sheet and read the changes, but I try to avoid to have sheet when playing. Maybe I´m a bit old fashioned in that manner but I think it looks better on stage if you dont have to read music in front of the audience.

Hello, sorry I have not noticed that thread, but would like to discuss this album or Bud in general with you. As I remember it was on 3 consecutive days in the first half of january 55 and the last day was the best. They had changed to rhythm section and got his old companion Kenny Clarke. I don´t know what medicine they gave Bud, but there where other problems on those Verve sessions too: Norman Granz was not really willing to record "vintage bop material". And a Bud who anyway was at "half speed" or under "autocontrol" had difficulties with that, or was not really willing to play it. So manybe after the disastrous results from the first day, even the guys from Verve would let him play, just to get material to publish. On the first date with Blakey, it must have been painful for Blakey to see and hear Bud like this. 4 1/2 years earlier (1950) Bud played the best piano he ever played (with Bird and Fats, and Blakey at Birdland) , by the way with some of the best Blakey. Bud improved slowly after those sad early 1955 dates, he get´s a bit stronger on the spring sessions (that album titled "Piano Interpretations", and the 1956 "Blues in the Closet", and especially when he got out of that Verve contract and could record for Blue Note again. What has to be said about Bud at any stage of his career is that he had a fantastic musical memory. When Bud returned to U.S.A. in late 1964 he got back into troubles and in that state of mind or in that state of frustration he started to play again the tunes he had recorded during his "un-years", like "Old Black Magic", "Thou Swell", There is also a very interesting version of "Epistrophy" from Birdland in autumn 1964, which is also done in that laid back manner similar to the 1955 version. Bud seemed to love to play that tune when things were bad for him, another occasion when he played it was in 1962 at Golden Circle. Nat Hentoff was right when he wrote in his liner notes that Bud´s performances in the later state of his career were uneven. At Golden Circle there are good and very bad performances, and same at Birdland two years later. From all the recorded material, there are some great moments and some days or sets where he just shouldn´t have played. But as you said, when I read the liner notes I can´t understand why Verve let Hentoff do such a bad publicity. Manybe they thought better a bed reputation than no reputation.... The guys from "Roulette" did a better job promoting a bad album: On one of his worst albums "The Return of Bud Powell" from late 1964, they write in the liner notes "and play he does on that album, better and stronger than ever".

Ornette Coleman "Ornette!" from 1961. During my youth this was not easy to purchase, I had listened to it at a friend´s place and later bought a CD reissue with a bonus track "Keen Writers" . I great album with Scott LaFaro on bass. The strange thing it´s much more straight ahead than other Coleman albums of that time. "Town Hall" is much more advanced. Ornette himself has much more emotion in his playing than on other occasions. Mostly he played in a very simple and diatonic manner , modulating through different keys, many of them unusual keys in jazz like D natural for example. Here he´s more chromatic and on the same time much more along with a straight ahead beat. Ed Blackwell is fantastic on T&T. But the best thing is the bonus track. I´ve listend to the 4 issued tracks more often and know them, but I seemed to have forgotten about the bonus track......

Incredible. As if McCony Tyner´s music was not jazz. And I remember, as Blakey intruduced the members of the Band at that gig in march 1980 he also introduced Fambrough with exactly the same words.Blakey had some standard speeches, just like Lou Donaldson when he intruduces "Wee" as "not recommended for fusion and confusion players...."

Yes I remember he was only for a short time, and I checked it out from the really great book "Hard Bop academy" about the Jazz Messengers sidemen.

Hello BFrank ! In the whole context of his bands, maybe it´s true that this edition was more underrated, but if I remember right, this was the band which brought Blakey back to larger audiences and tours overseas. I remember the happy young faces hearing for the first time that music. And I think it was at Moers in Germany, and the first records for the Timeless Label were very well announced in the Jazz Podium , the magazine we were reading. And as you mentioned Keystone Korner, that´s the point. When I was browsing thru the records to find anything I could with Blakey , and you can imagine how scarce was the market for acoustic jazz in the late 70´s , there was two records, the 1957 RCA "Plays Lerner and Loewe", and the 1977 "In this Korner". Needless to say I was much more impressed with the 1977 stuff, and same thing about the other kids around me. It sounded more "hip". And as we were kids and didn´t know much more musicians, those guys were our heros: The fantastic trumpet of Ponomarev from USSR , the then still young and unknown but fiercy Bobby Watson, the steady and strong tenor of Dave Schnitter, the Mr. Wonderful himself James Williams on piano, and the solid Irwing on bass. I remember the linernotes was very much about James Williams and that during those nights at the Korner nobody less than RED GARLAND was in the house and praised the young Williams. All us little cats wanted to check out some gimmicks Williams was doing, to become better piano players...... I remember we wore that record out, all kids was listening to it, even the girls said yeah if that´s jazz, it´s not bad......

I saw the Messengers at least 3 times. The first time was march 1980 at TU in Vienna. The edition was Valerie Ponomarev on tp, Bobby Watson on as, Dave Pierce on ts, James Williams on p, Charles Fambrough on bass. I was looking forward to that concert so much, since Blakey was my favourite drummer during that time. The first recordings with him on drums I heard on that famous Night at Birdland with Bird,Fats, Bud, and fell in love with his loud and hard driving drumming. Was a bit disappointed when I first had heard a studio recording with Blakey, because in comparation to Birdland 1950 it sounded to soft and to tame to me. I was and still am crazy about really powerful drummers. That first live concert had 3 of the musicians from the Concord LP "At this Korner" from 1977 (Ponomarev, Watson, Williams) and a Philips LP "Night in Tunisa" from 1979. I don´t remember all the tunes they played, but of course they did Blues March and Moanin´. All kids in town was hummin "Moanin´" when I was young. Even non jazzers loved it. The second time was 1983 at Wiesen Jazz Festival . I think Blanchard, Donald Harrison, Toussaint, ..... but not Mulgrew Miller on p, the piano player was a nice cat I think his name was "O´Neall" . On bass I think was Lonnie Plaxico. I remember there was even some "free" passages in the solos. And there was a ballad medley, I don´t know what ballad each of them played, but O´Neall played some "Summertime" and all the girls screamed..........., and the last tune was a really fast "Wee" and up on stage came .....DIZ !!!!!. He was scheduled for the next day but was allready in town and looked really like a turist, with a photoapparat around his neck, and he scatted Wee. He didn´t have his tp or was not allowed to play it due to contractual reasons, but boy ! It was an occasion to see Bu and Diz together on stage. The last time was 1988 or 1989 at "Metropole" in Viena. A few months earlier he had chancelled a gig at "Fritz", because his little dog was sick I think, that was the reason . At Metropole he had a trumpet player, a trombonist, and the then totally unknown piano player Benny Green (not to be confounded with the trombonist). But you see, it´s easy for me to remember tunes and personnel until around the mid 80´s and after that though I saw a lot, it´s much harder to remember it. One thing I remember from the last gig. I was in the front row and near to Bu just to see and hear what he´s doin. And I was impressed how he plays different for trumpet, sax, trombone, it´s just wonderful how he makes his drums sound like brass or like wood, that´s the greatest thing i remember about Bu.

I´ve been a bit more into 60´s avantgarde the last days. Just heard Cecil Taylor´s "Conquistador". Forgot how great this is. You got to get into that music, and will find a really wealth of music. They all are great. Taylor got such a phantastic touch and I think RVG recorded his piano really fine. Everything he plays, the more tender moments alternating with the clusters. You can hear were Jaky Byard comes from. And the horn´s are great. Bill Dixon and of courses Jimmy Lions. Especially on "With (Exit)" he almost sounds like Bird sometimes. Just a fantastic record.

I just ordered it ! Thank you for the kind info, I would never have thought that I´ll find it on a box, and the other CDs also are very very promising. Just as an "aperitiv" for the Mosaic Box with so much Don Cherry on it, I spinned "Complete Communion" yesterday. That´s some memories of my youth. I wanted to get into so called "free jazz" because I was afraid others might laugh at me if I can´t dig into something beyond bop and hard bop. And that guy who had that huge record collection of 90% free music, borrowed me the "Communion" and the "Rhythm X" and that was ideal for a free-jazz starter who´s still a bit afraid of "free", because it has portions of "straight ahead" where the bass walks, like I loved it. "Rhythm X" was a bit further out, but still understandable for a 15,16 year kid. I had both of them on tape, bought the Communion CD later and now I´m lookin forward to hear that Rhythm X. Will bring a lot of memories back, of the shy kid who wanted to be with the "hipsters" ......

Really ? Never thought it might be in the Cliff Jordan Box, since it´s quite far from Jordan´s musical directions. But live is full of surprises.

It was a good idea during that time, late 70´s if I remember right, there where two different groups of fans, those who preferred acoustic and those who preferred electric, and since Ornette was deeply into electrics with Prime Time, there were attempts of his former bandmates to please those who only dug the classic Ornette Coleman Trio/Quartet. It was very similar to the VSOP, Miles classic quintet with Hubbard replacing Miles who was into electrics (or was taking a break). I think it was mainly Charlie Hadens idea to form that Old and New Dreams. He was an acoustic purist, which was not the case with Ornette and Don Cherry, they were interested in electrics. Anyway, there was a great little record of "Ornette Coleman without Ornette Coleman" in the late 60´s, I think it was called Charles Brackeen Quartet. The man of Joanne Brackeen, who seems to be much better known. But it has Don Cherry, Charly Haden and I think Blackwell, or Higgins I´m not sure. This record sounds very much like an Ornette Coleman record. I´d like to have it , but it seems to have disappeard and was not in the reissue circle.

I heard the Rikers Island only on tape once. Remember a very far out Night in Tunisia, but I think bad recorded. Well I don´t care for bad sound quality as a stone bebopper and used to rusty sound of Birdland Tapes etc , . Remember also 2 great vocals "It shouldn´t happen to a dream" with Earl Coleman. Hope is just fantastic comping the singer, he should have done that more often. And a funny "Groovin High" with I don´t know who doin some really funny scat. But can someone tell me the story behind that Rikers Island. I always knew that this was a jail, and I read somewhere that Philly J J was incarcerated there in 63. Was that record made in jail ?

I didn´t even know Spaulding made 45 rpm record. As much as I know his music a 45rpm would not offer enough space of time for his outbursts. As for "the East" yes I remember it as the place where Pharoah made his album "Life at the East". Imho one of the best albums he ever did. It was my first then in the 70´s and I still have it. Mtume? The great percussionist who later played with Miles ?

Really sad news. Saw him live with Ron Carter

I´ll have to purchase this. Really great company. I saw McCoy Tyner with Joe Ford and Ran Blake in March 1980 and I still remember the first tune they played that I liked much, and couldn´t find the title of the tune until someone from here said me it´s "The Seeker" , which is on "Quartets" which I purchased as soon as I heard about it. I also like Horizon very much, and the double album with the two trios. And of course, the "Milestone Allstars" .

Great memories ! Lee with Barry Harris, Jimmy Merritt and Philly Joe Jones together , something like that might be on record. On my God, that must have been great. And it´s really interesting sometimes to hear a more laid back and subtle hornplayer with a so called strong rhythm section. If the vibrations are right, something fantastic might happen.....

That might be the 4 albums "Winter, Spring, Summer, Autumnsession" ? No there is no overlap, and for the similar repertoire, it´s interesting that on the Wintersessions from february 53 Bud plays a more varied set including other tunes like a fast Tea For Two, a wonderful "It Could Happen to You", "Ornithology" etc, and not just stickin to the many "I Want to be Happy´s" and "I´ve Got You Under My Skin´s " in the same key. Something must have happend to Bud during that busy year 1953, when he played so much at Birdland but always had "someone to watch over him". Maybe he lost interest in what he was doing, because some of the recordings from autumn really let the impressions that Bud was on "auto pilot".....

yes, this one. Lee´s really good, doing his thing.

I don´t know the 3 CD Box and right in this moment I´m not sure if I heard Moonchild, but I remember "Wellcome to love" is one of the later albums I purchased from Pharoah. Here he is a great ballad player. Most of us might have heard Pharoah for the first time when he started to play more conventional material, like classic quartet settings. Pharoah and Shepp did that about in the same time. But I also love that more religios stuff, things like "Healing Song" , I´m not a religios person, we didn´t grow up with those things, but to me Pharoah is like a church event and I love it.

Really, for those listening more to the mainstream of sax playing, it´s possible for some he is not first choice, but you have to listen between the lines. As early as his 1948 encounter with Miles (when he obviously replaced Bird for a night, since it was Miles with Bird´s rhyhthm section and Lee on alto, he has his thing and there are some tricky things in his solos that nobody else did until then.

Yeah, THAT´S IT, the one with Rollins and Stitt has exactly that short interlude. It sounds so good, it´s much better than just starting to solo after the theme. A wonderful version. Anyway, I have noticed one thing: Most of Dizzy´s tunes, Diz kept the intros , where they are the interludes almost for his entire live. Tunes like "Be Bop", "Shaw Nuff", "Dizzy Atmosphere", "Blue´n Boogie" , "Tin Tin Deo", "Manteca" would be similar in the playing form, even if he played it in combo or big band, and it seems the "Con Alma" changed: First he did it without an interlude, than he kept the interlude, then he added a rock vamp and played it with a rock feeling (Montreux 1981 and Northsea 1988), then I witnessed once late 1983 in an allstar quintet setting that he suddenly played it straight ahead. Anyway, the most important thing will be to first see what the trumpet player wants. I know from woodshedding with him that he´s very familiar with Dizzy´s tunes and really wants to dig into them for a gig and it´s a great honour for me that he will do it with me. So I´ll see want he wants to do on that tune.

Thank you for posting the other "Lionel Hampton presents.....". Yeah, I think that´s how it sounded, just as if there was a hurry up, and not much studio time. But I have listened more intensly to the Mingus album yesterday and once again I must say I couldn´t believe how Hampton, a tough businessman and besides that from another generation, found the time and the effort to solo on all those Mingus compositions. Well, "So long Eric" is just a blues in F, but "Remember Rockefeller", "Fables", "Slop" and others, you can´t just take your mallets and play a chorus on it, it takes time to know the form, and I never was aware of that musical side of Hampton. I never heard the others, I would purchase the Dexter, the Mulligan, the Woody Herman and so. I´ve read somewhere it´s not really the best of Dexters albums. On the other hand, like Mingus, Dexter had started to become better known when playing with Hamp. Saw Dexter once on a kind of Hampton Alumni set, something with Arnett Cobb, a more old fashioned drummer and a very very old Gene Ramey on bass. Yes, make a wishlist for Mosaic, would be a nice idea.

I´t not an album I´d recommend since it´s far from being Mingu´s best one, but remember, Mingus made his last studio recordings on November 6th 1977, so that´s forty years ago. The title is "Lionel Hampton presents Charles Mingus" or sometimes it´s titled "Last Date" or "Just for Laughs". Man, time flies, remember he was part of all the festival schedules in the 70´s and was scheduled for a promoting tour with Larry Coryell for late 77 but had to chancle it. This album, I don´t know how they persuaded Mingus to do it, he was much more into large format stuff as Cumbia, Three or Four Shades, Three Worlds of Drums. It´s his touring band with Walrath, Ford, Neloms and Danny , but too many others and not really fine arrangements. You can say about Hampton what you want and that his vibe doesn´t really fit into Mingus´ music, but it´s astonishing that he, quite an old and very busy man found the time to learn the quite unusual structures of Mingus´ compositions and could solo on them. But just today it´s worth to be listened. Anyway it has the first versions of Mingus´ last ballads "Farewell Farwell" and "Keki Mingus", he would record him a few months later but at that time he didn´t play the bass anymore.....

Thanks mikeweil, yeah he plays the intro the way it´s supposed and comfortable to play. But again, he does not play an interlude between the theme and the improvisation. And it´s interesting, that he plays the first 4 bars of the channel with a Tango rhythm, and while improvising, in each chorus he repeats his idea from the first A section in the second A section and then again in the last 8 bars after the channel. An interesting way to build it up in a very relaxed and unhurried manner. I would like to do the Dizzy interlude too, : Intro, Theme, Interlude, improvisations, theme (with the shout chorus they do) , and then you can end the tune again with the interlude...

Yeah, the setting would be a "standard setting" , that means that great trumpet player I had the honour to get to know, and me with my bassplayer and drummer. From what I heard, the trumpet player really knows his Dizzy stuff, from what we jammed and woodshedded just humming the parts, he got it all, the Diz-intros for let´s say Blue´n Boogie, the right intro of "Shaw Nuff", the shout chorus at the end of Dizzy Atmosphere, the change from Eflat to Dflat on Groovin´ High, all of it. I just listend to the Stan Getz version. It´s nice and interesting, but it doesn´t have the interlude, it just goes from the theme into the impro, but it´s done in 3/4 time. I can do that and did that, but even if people liked it I´m not happy with it. It got to have the intro, I think it´s a vamp done on C and Dflat, 8 bar´s . than the theme, and that the interlude, ..... 8 bar´s ? and some descending chords .