mikeweil

This was the evening bottle until tonight:

Has anybody here read this book? Any opinions welcome!

The second, expanded edition of the Tjader bio is available for pre-order from the publisher - last I heard from Duncan there seemed to be delays .... https://mcfarlandbooks.com/product/cal-tjader2/

Still finding and learning new thingss and tracks. The short "outtake" of Four Beat Cha Cha" is on a "Best Of ..." CD that I was able to order but will only get in two weeks. There is a "Best Of Dance Mania" CD that includes several outtakes not found in the Deluxe double CD of these two albums: The CD "Hong Kong Mambo" really is a re-titled "Dance Mania" with two outtakes added, one of these never was issued anywhere else. The subtitle "The RCA Years, Vol.1 raises expectations that never were fulfilled. I finally decided to get me a copy of Joe Conzo's book, and do not regret it. In fact I find it a much more satisfying and informative read than Powell's book. The "discography" is a joke, just listing albums, but at least it led me to the last of the three CDs I just mentioned.

BTW - Steve has offered me to host my BRIAN based discographies on the jazzdiscography.com site - an offer that I cannot resist as I feel honored to be in that company and it has the advantage of good maintenance and better formatting. I will remove them here except for some special cases but link them - they will be publicly accessible. The discographies I have finished (except for regular necessary updates, of course) are: Cal Tjader Dave Brubeck 1942-1950 Don Patterson Melvin Rhyne Pony Poindexter Carla White Ahmad Jamal 1951-1955 The Latin Jazz Quintet The Essence All Stars Lloyd McNeill (leader) Al McKibbon (leader) The ones I am working on are: Nick Esposito George Shearing MGM & Capitol Eddie Harris (VeeJay, Columbia, Atlantic) Andy Bey King Pleasure Eddie Jefferson Geoffrey Keezer Moacir Santos Mongo Santamaria Tito Puente RCA sessions 1948-1960 I now have to do proofreading and writing intro pages for the ones that are ready for web publication.

The issues that include the entire session are always listed at the bottom of a session entry. But: When there are edited versions, issued on singles or compilations, they will spoil that. Same when there is one or more tracks still unissued. That is why "conventional" discographers use text modules so they can say "all issued tracks on .....", but this is less accurate. It saves space in printed discographies, but online you can go for every detail. Many simply omit singles to avoid that problem, or list them seprately. Or they do not differentiate between edited single versions and complete tracks on LPs (like in Ruppli's Prestige disco, that only makes a difference when there are different takes used for singles). Bottom line is: when you go for every detail, BRIAN is the only way. It only causes more editorial work when you want to make it more "readable". But you have to activate that feature in your personal preferences - at least that is what I had to do - or is it standard in the latest version? This is your decision. There is no standard procedure for this. S. Duncan Reid did not want me to include them in the abridged disco for the Tjader biography, but I decided to include them in the online version. (In the case of Tjader, there aren't that many). I, for one, would include them as they always are of interest for the serious fan. I include DVDs - why not? DVD and other formats are listed in the media format dropdown menu. I include them whenever I find them. It can be helpful to include videos in circulation among private collectors when there are errors in track identification or personnel. There is a Tina Brooks leader entry, btw. (i.e. no sideman dates) here: https://jazzdiscography.com/Leaders/BrooksTina-ldr.php

That will be a never ending cause for argument - session order vs. "original LP" order. In the end it depends on listening habits. You expect a certain track when you've grown up with the LP. But sometimes session order gives the tracks a different sense of dynamics which I find very interesting.

That is because they recorded two sessions that both yielded more material than would fit on an LP. Booker's Legends of Acid Jazz has the complete first session except for one track that was only on a 45 rpm single, and the other CD has the second session, including three tracks that were only released years later on two different Patterson compilation LPs with unissued tracks. See my Patterson disco ....

These were my thoughts, too, and I hesitated for a while, but now I regret it because it would have saved me a lot of time. It changes the way you do your research because you have in mind all the details you need to know, like composers, and track timings, which can be crucial in identifying different versions of the same piece. You can limit yourself to orginal issues, or these and CDs, or whatever - that's what I will do with the Tito Puente stuff. That said, there always is an issue you overlook or that is not listed anywhere on the web. But adding that in BRIAN is a piece of cake, where other dicsographies in text based formats cause much more work in such cases. Or take a musician's name. When you want to change that in BRIAN, you just do it once in the personnel data listing, and it is automatically changed in all entries. Imagine doing that in a word document!

Great article! Terra Firma really rocks, and Con Amigos has my favourite Grossman solo.

I can second that observation. But, although it may be tedious, you have to pay full attention. The door to typos is always wide open .....

Well, that's a shoe with bare feet, so it belongs here!

Thanks - I will add this immediately!

Dan, you were the first I thought of knowing about your Percy France research. The BRIAN database is not too sophisticated, and the online tutorial covers most of the questions that may occur. Steven Albin is a nice man, was of much help whenever problems arose, and even incorporated some of my suggestions into the software. When you look at the discographies of real prolific artist like Peggy Lee you see what it can do. I customized the database a lot over the years, adding many musicians and compositions that are beyond the standard repertoire.

I doubt there is a tape. See James Harrod's blog for details: http://jazzwestcoastresearch.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-dave-brubeck-trio-fantasy-records.html

Mine, too ....

I have been compiling serious discographies with the BRIAN database for several years now, but at the time I do not have the time nor the funds for putting up a proper website of my own - don't ask me why. Under these circumstances I gladly accepted Steve Albin's offer to host my discographies on the Jazz Discography website. Only discographies compiled with the BRIAN database are published there. Sources for the data are many: my own record collection; discographical data available on the web, like the Tom Lord Jazz Discography, discogs, or allmusic; printed label discographies like those compiled by Michael Ruppli; and, most importantly, information from musicians, members of this forum and other collectors the world over. I seriously recommend using BRIAN to anybody wishing to compile a discography - it forces you to do meticulous research and look for all information available to identify a particular track. But. most importantly, listen to the music carefully - this alone made me discover many obvious errors like mistitled tracks or instrument attributions. Feel free to post any questions. Thanks for your attention. All these discographies are about the musical legacy of musicicians that are important to me. They now will be viewable online on the jazzdiscographies website and be omitted here - updates are easier there. Links to the online discographies: Cal Tjader: https://jazzdiscography.com/cal-tjader-discography/ Don Patterson: https://jazzdiscography.com/Artists/don-patterson/index.php Melvin Rhyne: https://jazzdiscography.com/Artists/melvin-rhyne/index.php Pony Poindexter: https://jazzdiscography.com/pony-poindexter-discography/ Paul Bryant: https://jazzdiscography.com/paul-bryant-discography/ Lloyd McNeill: https://jazzdiscography.com/lloyd-mcneill-discography/ Ronald Muldrow: (Leader dates) https://jazzdiscography.com/Leaders/muldrowdisco.php Al McKibbon: (Leader dates) https://jazzdiscography.com/Leaders/mckibbon.php Sam Jones: (Lesder dates): https://jazzdiscography.com/Leaders/sam-jones-discography.php Projects I am working on: Carla White Dave Mackay Dave Brubeck: Part 1 - Trio & Octet 1942-1950 Dave Brubeck, Part 2 - Quartet with Paul Desmond & Joe Dodge on Fantasy (perhaps I will extend this to all recordings with Dodge until 1956, before Joe Morello replaced him) Nick Esposito Tito Puente: Tico & RCA sessions Mongo Santamaria Jeff Palmer Richard "Groove" Holmes Les McCann Kevin Mahogany Eddie Harris Bill Henderson Lonnie Hewitt Onzy Matthews The Modern Jazz Quartet Thad Jones (small group recordings only)

R.I.P. I saw him live with Stone Alliance in 1974 - I like the way he played back then and on his own albums until 1980 much better than his later, Rollins-influenced style. He was only 69 ... 3 years older than I am .....