Rooster_Ties

I've got a much nicer Blue Note watch from at least 15 or maybe closer to 20 years ago -- nicer than the freebie you got with the Conn proof of purchases too (I had one of those too). A friend actually gave it to me (the nicer one) -- and I suspect it was more expensive than I would have bought at the time. He said he never wore a watch, and never had any need for it (and I forget exactly where he got it from). I'll have to dig around on-line and see if I can find any representative pics of it.

I just picked up a used copy of this on CD(!!) on ebay for $30 (ouch!!). But to be honest, I never really thought this REALLY existed on CD until I opened up the package in my mailbox barely an hour ago. I've had it on vinyl for over 5 years, but I've had my eyes out for this on CD for going on 10 years!! It's NOT (and has never been) listed on CD on Discogs, and the only place I've ever seen/found any reference on-line is one lonely Amazon listing, and a few Japanese sites -- but the Amazon is (and has always been) just 1-2 lonely 3rd-party sellers who wanted like $100 for it (give or take). BTW, if you're looking for the listing on Amazon, just search for "Olatunji Soul" (leave out the "Makossa") -- which is also how you get to what I presume is the legit(?) mp3 downloads for this thing too. The CD packaging has that look about it that just screams "I'm a bootleg" like those dodgy "Black Jazz" UK reissues from maybe 10-15 years ago (and/or maybe a few dodgy "Strata East" or "Tribe" reissues have looked similar too). But it *IS* on a silver-disc, and it sounds great (I'm not hearing any surface noise, so I don't think it's sourced from an LP), tracks up perfectly every time, the whole kit and kaboodle. Packaging is pretty primitive, and the repro of the cover looks like a somewhat faded LP cover (exactly like the image down below from an Amazon listing for the LP, down to all the same wear marks, every last one)... God damn, I love this album. Joe's all over this thing, but I think Jim's right (up above), the real secret sauce is Reggie Lucas. I'm already on my second spin since I got the CD barely an hour ago. I had a burn of this thing 9-10 years ago (no idea what happened to it), and on vinyl the last 5 years -- but nice(r) to have it on CD finally, even if it's a little dubious.

The Cloud ain't going nowhere (in general), but anything I bought from somebody that they put up on the cloud for me (and my access is controlled through them), sure as hell might go somewhere.

I'm totally with you, Jim. Anything (or rather, any particular thing) you have on the Cloud, might well disappear 10-15 years from now (or next year, you never know). I do not trust anything other than media or data that I control myself -- at least in terms of long-term access. Yeah, a fire could come a destroy it all. But other than that, I think my little (physical) collection of ~3,000+ CD's (and a few hundred LP's) stands a MUCH better chance of being able to be listened to 20 years from now, than anything (or rather, any particular thing), going forward. Yeah, I spent way too god damn much on all those Terumasa Hino CD reissues recently -- but you can't even access ANY of that stuff on-line (other than random YouTube uploads, which come and go). I suspect half my music collection is like that -- some of it not terribly hard to access one way or another NOW -- but in the 2030's?? -- who the hell knows.

I'm afraid I have all this too (and all on CD to boot), so I'm afraid I'm going to have to pass too. I won't feel too guilty, as there was only about 1/3rd of the Bee Hive set that I was really super-duper interested in, but I did buy that primarily to be supportive of the label (which was a pretty penny). If the set does have enough sales, and get approved for production -- I might see if I can order a copy of just the booklet. There was a time (20 years ago), when I bought booklets for several of their Miles Davis Columbia LP sets, to augment my metal-spine CD copies of the music. They sold the booklets at $15 each back then, and I wouldn't be surprised if they upped that price to $20 now (as they probably should). Wish I could justify this, but my ideal is individual CD's with original artwork, and I've already got all that here. But I do hope they can make a go of it. If this set sells enough, I could see them doing a similar 60's set for Lee Morgan -- that seems like the most logical next set of this sort.

Lovely to find a collection like that. Which Gunther Schuller album? - if I might ask.

How so?

Definitely!! All these years, I still have and kept my 1989 McMaster CD edition of "No Room For Squares" -- because those McMaster issues of the 3 or 4 Mobley's that originally split sessions -- those late 80's McMasters were released by session (instead of as they originally came out on LP). The best way to experience those sessions, is grouped by session -- far as I'm concerned. That 1989 edition of "No Room For Squares" especially, being one of Andrew Hill's rare sideman appearances.

'Tis true. I bought that Woody Shaw Muse set without a single moment's hesitation, and was head-over-heals about it when it was first announced. You're right.

I said I was glad this set was coming out, and I am (even if I already have all of it on CD already, every last take). And I guess I was primarily glad that others might get to hear this material again, since this is probably my favorite era of Hank's output (or much of it anyway). And maybe I shouldn't be a nattering nabob (and I'm hesitating posting this), but it's really hard not to see an obvious cost comparison between a set like this -- 8 CDs for $136.00 (or $17 per disc) from Mosaic -- vs. the cost/value of something like the recent (and legit!! - aren't these particular ones legit??) "5 original albums" series of Blue Note artists... This Lee Morgan "5 original albums" set is only $18.22 for 5 CD's (or $3.64 per disc). https://www.amazon.com/5-Original-Albums-CD/dp/B07C8Q5873 https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=5+Original+Albums+blue+note&rh=n%3A5174%2Ck%3A5+Original+Albums+blue+note Or perhaps more fairly, if you want to acknowledge that this new Mobley set isn't just 8 CD's -- but rather 12 full albums, then $136 comes out to $11.33 per album (spread over 8 discs, at $17 per disc). Never the less, even using the "per album" metric, the Mosaic is *still* fully 3X as expensive (or 7.4X as expensive, in terms of the # of CD's). New transfers, I know. New liners too. And that other cheapo set is just 'repressings' of existing masters (not 'pressings' I realize, but you get my point), and probably no liners at all. Still, I'd reckon someone would have to REALLY be on-board with Mosaic already (multiple past purchasing experiences) before getting this new Mobley set. Not trying to second guess them -- I'm sure they'll sell enough to merit doing the set. Just some observations. FWIW, I was very much on the fence about buying the Bee Hive box, since 2/3rds of it didn't look quite like my cup of tea (on paper), but I **DID** buy a copy of the Bee Hive (as a show of support for all their efforts), and I'm quite happy with it. But I guess I'm saying on second thought, I'm even more surprised at this new Mobley set, given the proliferation of MUCH less expensive multi-disc sets of similar material that have hit the market in recent years.

I have to confess I'm the same on every count -- but I too am glad that Mosaic is doing this set -- and maybe more sets like it. Don't know that I'll buy this one, I'm afraid -- I already have all of it on CD -- including the CD TOCJ 50296 of "Third Season" (from 2012) -- so I've even got that one alternate already on CD too ("Third Season" and "Slice of the Top" are my two all-time favorite Mobley albums -- "Third Season" especially, is really my #1 favorite) So I'll probably pass. But if there was some unreleased session in there, that's probably all it would take to get me to bite (I realize, there isn't any such animal in existence even).

Thanks Chuck! I guess that's what I get for trusting Wikipedia.

Is there a mid-level entry point expanded version of The White Album, like the 3CD Pepper? Looking at the Wikipedia entry for The White Album just now, it seems(?) to imply there's just the regular 2CD version (original album, no bonus tracks I presume?), or else a huge 6CD/1bluray version. I might bite on a 3CD version of The White Album (if there even is one), with the main album(s), and the Esher demos (disc 3) -- but I gather there's nothing like that available - ?? (Like it's all-or-nothing, in terms access to bonus material.) Am I gathering right?

And I'm eager to get your feedback on all 6 songs that "Ted" orchestrated for his son-in-law. I doubt many Who fans even know of them, and probably not even half of fans who profess to like Pete's solo work either. A couple of them are pretty unconventional too, particularly "Football Fugue". I barely have 3-4 Who albums, all expanded CD-reissues with bonus material with key Pete-only demos, and the like. Whereas I have about half to 2/3rds of Pete's entire solo catalog on CD, and even a few solo things that haven't ever been on CD. And these few obscure orchestral songs of his (the only versions of these particular tunes that he's ever recorded, far as I know), are among my favorites out of his entire solo catalog.

Me too -- I often confuse a few of Tolliver's tunes, and also a few of Billy Harper's too (but not with each other).

Apparently Astley also did some string-arrangements on a couple tunes on Who's Next (released in 1978). I'm not familiar with either of these songs, as I'm about a 5x bigger fan of Pete Townsend's solo output, than I am of The Who. http://www.thewho.net/discography/albums/WhoAreYou.html Roger Daltrey Vocals John Entwistle Bass Guitar, Vocals & synthesizer [and horns] Keith Moon Drums & Percussion Pete Townshend Guitar, Piano, Synthesizer & Vocals Andy Fairweather-Low Backing vocals on "New Song," "Had Enough," "Guitar And Pen," "Love Is Coming Down" and "Who Are You" [Andy was the lead singer of The Amen Corner in the mid-60's. Since 1991 he has been Eric Clapton's backup guitarist/vocalist and appeared on Clapton's Unpluggedalbum and also accompanied Pete on his 1993 Psychoderelict tour.] Rod Argent Synthesizer on "Had Enough" and piano on "Who Are You" [Rod was the keyboardist for The Zombies ("She's Not There," "Tell Her No") then headed the early 70's band Argent ("Hold Your Head Up"). He is now a producer, composer and performer.] Ted Astley String arrangements on "Had Enough" and "Love Is Coming Down" [Ted Astley, full name Edwin Thomas Astley, was born in 1922. In addition to being Pete's father-in-law, Astley was a composer for many British films and TV series including The Mouse That Roared, the 1962 version of The Phantom of the Opera, The Saint, and, oddly enough, the 1961 film A Matter Of Who. He died in 1998.] Produced by Glyn Johns and Jon Astley [Jon Astley is the son of Ted Astley and Pete's brother-in-law. He was [also] in charge of the 1994-1998 Who [CD] re-release program. Glyn Johns quit Who Are You after getting head-butted by Roger. He returned for 1982's It's Hard.] Engineering Assistance: Judy Szekely

"The Ferryman"... "I Like It The Way It Is"...

"Brooklyn Kids"... "Praying The Game"...

"Street In The City"... "Football Fugue"...

Ttk, do you know the six (6!) Pete Townshend solo-songs that Astley orchestrated in the mid-to-late 70's? If not, you should!! The first one came out on Pete's 1977 album Rough Mix. Then 4 more on Pete's 2nd compilation of 'demos' in 1987 called Another Scoop, and the last one on his 3rd demo compilation, 2001's Scoop 3. All but the very first one seems to have been recorded in 1978, iirc. If only these had been collected together, along with maybe 3- or 4 more -- or even some acoustic songs (without orchestra), it might have been Pete's finest hour's on record (imho). For anyone not aware, Edwin Astley (1922-1998) was also Pete Townshend's father-in-law (didn't want to presume you didn't know that, TtK). I don't really know a whole lot about the genesis of these tracks, but I think they are pretty close to divine! "Street In The City" (Rough Mix) "Football Fugue" (Another Scoop) "Brooklyn Kids" (Another Scoop) "Praying The Game" (Another Scoop) "The Ferryman" (Another Scoop) "I Like It The Way It Is" (Scoop 3) A bit of discussion here too (on the Hoffman board, and I think they've been mentioned collectively there in some other threads too). I'll try and post YouTube links to all of them in a moment. https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/street-in-the-city-pete-townshend.94039/#post-2070859

I'd suggest setting up an eBay auto-search, which should email you every time a new set comes up. In fact, you can probably set up two separate searches -- one more generally for the Lunceford Mosaic, and then a second one that's specifically for UK-based sellers only. That way if there's ever one from a UK source -- you'll get TWO emails (it'll come up on both searches) -- as a way of maximizing the chances of you not overlooking it. With some patience, you may snag one within just a few months.

I've mentioned this before, but about 15 years ago I fell in love with Schoenberg's mid-20's opus numbered chamber-works that all include winds. More specifically... Serenade, Op. 24 - for clarinet, bass clarinet, mandolin(!), guitar, violin, viola, and cello - plus a bass vocalist (on one movement only) Wind Quintet, Op. 26 - for standard wind-quintet: flute, oboe, clarinet, horn, and bassoon Suite, Op. 29 - for sopranino clarinet in Eb, standard Bb clarinet, bass clarinet, vioin, viola, cello, and piano ...plus Webern's chamber arrangement of Schoenberg's Chamber Symphony #1, Op. 9 - for flute, clarinet, violin, cello, and piano There's also a really nifty "sonata" arrangement of the Wind Quintet for piano and either violin, or else flute (and I've got recordings of each version, for flute or violin) -- and both versions are just dandy!! People complain about serialism not being any fun, but I find these particular pieces just about as spritely and "dancy" as all getout. When I was working to pack up our house to move to Washington DC, and it was just me for a few months trying to get that house shaped up to put on the market, I only had about 200 CD's to listen to -- most of them stuff I was going to get rid of, plus a all these Schoenberg pieces. Damn, if that music isn't ever just about THE best thing ever to get shit done to. I think I literally listened to 1-2 of these works every day (or every other day) for several weeks there. Joyous music, in my book, and complicated too -- but it always put a spring in my step, if not literally then at least mentally. And the funny thing is that I'm really NOT especially fond of wind quintets and other stuff like this generally. Sure, they're ok, but it's not like Wind Quintets are a specific 'thing' I'm into or anything.

I've tried with both Lulu and Wozzeck (on CD's at least), and I just can't get into either one. I've got a few Henze operas on CD (part of a HUGE Henze box I have), and those work a bit better for me -- though I'd be lying if I said I'd listened to any of them much in the last 10 years. For me, the modernist 12-tone stuff I'm pining to hear live most of all is Roger Sessions!! Especially symphonies 6, 7, or 9...

I'll agree that Journey To Air doesn't sound especially "organic". But I still think it hangs together better as a listening experience (at least for me), than the one with Bartz -- and the one with Bartz might very well be more "organic" (but it just was alternately tedious and occasionally torturous even, to my ears). I get the Strata East reference, but a few of those more woolly Strata East things have never clicked with me either (enough that I'm content to have access to them via YouTube uploads, and I've resisted the temptation to pay through the nose for $30 Japanese CD issues of them). There's a couple of the lesser Tribe dates that hit me the same way (most of which I have on CD, though a couple were more woolly than I realized before I paid the piper for them). BTW, I would LOVE for this Hino nugget to come out on CD somehow... https://www.discogs.com/Terumasa-Hino-Kosuke-Mine-Sadao-Watanabe-Takeru-Muraoka-Masabumi-Kikuchi-Yoshiaki-Masuo-Kunimitsu-In/release/11263311 I only know this one "Freedom Jazz Dance" track, but I can't help but imagine the whole thing is pretty interesting (or at least some of it). Here's FJD...

Since Hino is clearly reacting more in real-time to the changing musical world (or world of Miles) going on around him, rightly so (or not) I've always cut him a little slack because he seems to be trying to integrate Miles' changing language into his own. Maybe it's because Hino is just a stronger player (with more ideas, imho), but I've always felt he was more successful (generally) in his various endeavors from his debut in '67 up through '75 or so -- than say Kenny Cox' quintet in '68 & 69 (which was clearly heavily inspired by Miles 2nd quintet, circa 1967). That isn't to say I don't enjoy those 2 Kenny Cox BN dates for what they are (I do really like them), even if they aren't are refined as the real deal (in '67). Similarly I judge Hino as not quite being there too, though I think he gets closer (in terms of group cohesion, 'telepathy' (for lack of a better term), and the strength of the soloists Hino had in his bands was generally a bit strong than Kenny Cox' quintet too). ALSO, it seems (to me) like Hino was always behind Miles by about a year, and he also seemed to be 'evolving' somewhat in sync with Miles -- though these 4 new "free" albums give a whole new perspective I never knew about. Also, (re: Teo's influence), I think it needs to be said that MILES and his groups were never as cohesive (live) after ~1970, as they were all during the 2nd Quintet and Lost Quintet years. Miles and groups were probably more cohesive live (and more often) than Hino's during the same timeframe (in the first half of the 70's) -- but the difference is probably not vastly different. Whoever said Miles benefited from having a "Teo" -- and that Hino could have used a "Teo" was probably right. Maybe I'm a glass-is-half-full (rather than half-empty) kind of guy, but I still think it's rather remarkable how many highs Hino got to over the course of ~8 years (and maybe longer -- I really haven't ventured into his post-1976 material much). Also interesting, Jim, that yours and my reactions to Journey To Air and the other one with Bartz were almost exactly switched. Didn't help that the Bartz one sounded like it was recorded in a large bucket, but I also didn't feel like the smaller-group (the one with Bartz) added anything at all in terms group interplay. I just felt like it was way more unfocussed, with a whole lot LESS thought. Frankly, it felt like an unplanned, nearly totally-free blowing session (been a few weeks since I heard it, I'll have to spin it again). Whereas Journey To Air -- while it did sound more episodic, it almost reminded me of the way something like Trey Anastasio's "Surrender to the Air" group/album worked (the one with Sun Ra alums Michael Ray and Marshall Allen, along with John Medeski and Marc Ribot, along with others). It was free, but had an overall structure, and floated back and forth between different textures and periods of free interspersed with more organized free-sections (stuff that I think(?) reminds me a little of how Frank Zappa's "Approximate" worked -- isn't that the one that was notated rhythmically, but the players choose the notes to play)? Clearly the effect of "Approximate" is WAY more dense, and specific -- but my point is that Journey To Air -- while it's all pretty "free" -- there's lots of parts that are more organized than others, and everything is pretty episodic. Frankly, I was really surprised at how much I liked Journey To Air -- which I hadn't expected to like a ton based on my just skimming through it initially. But the one with Gary Bartz was just a total slog for me, top to bottom. Different strokes, I guess.