Rooster_Ties

'Tis true. I bought that Woody Shaw Muse set without a single moment's hesitation, and was head-over-heals about it when it was first announced. You're right.

I said I was glad this set was coming out, and I am (even if I already have all of it on CD already, every last take). And I guess I was primarily glad that others might get to hear this material again, since this is probably my favorite era of Hank's output (or much of it anyway). And maybe I shouldn't be a nattering nabob (and I'm hesitating posting this), but it's really hard not to see an obvious cost comparison between a set like this -- 8 CDs for $136.00 (or $17 per disc) from Mosaic -- vs. the cost/value of something like the recent (and legit!! - aren't these particular ones legit??) "5 original albums" series of Blue Note artists... This Lee Morgan "5 original albums" set is only $18.22 for 5 CD's (or $3.64 per disc). https://www.amazon.com/5-Original-Albums-CD/dp/B07C8Q5873 https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=5+Original+Albums+blue+note&rh=n%3A5174%2Ck%3A5+Original+Albums+blue+note Or perhaps more fairly, if you want to acknowledge that this new Mobley set isn't just 8 CD's -- but rather 12 full albums, then $136 comes out to $11.33 per album (spread over 8 discs, at $17 per disc). Never the less, even using the "per album" metric, the Mosaic is *still* fully 3X as expensive (or 7.4X as expensive, in terms of the # of CD's). New transfers, I know. New liners too. And that other cheapo set is just 'repressings' of existing masters (not 'pressings' I realize, but you get my point), and probably no liners at all. Still, I'd reckon someone would have to REALLY be on-board with Mosaic already (multiple past purchasing experiences) before getting this new Mobley set. Not trying to second guess them -- I'm sure they'll sell enough to merit doing the set. Just some observations. FWIW, I was very much on the fence about buying the Bee Hive box, since 2/3rds of it didn't look quite like my cup of tea (on paper), but I **DID** buy a copy of the Bee Hive (as a show of support for all their efforts), and I'm quite happy with it. But I guess I'm saying on second thought, I'm even more surprised at this new Mobley set, given the proliferation of MUCH less expensive multi-disc sets of similar material that have hit the market in recent years.

I have to confess I'm the same on every count -- but I too am glad that Mosaic is doing this set -- and maybe more sets like it. Don't know that I'll buy this one, I'm afraid -- I already have all of it on CD -- including the CD TOCJ 50296 of "Third Season" (from 2012) -- so I've even got that one alternate already on CD too ("Third Season" and "Slice of the Top" are my two all-time favorite Mobley albums -- "Third Season" especially, is really my #1 favorite) So I'll probably pass. But if there was some unreleased session in there, that's probably all it would take to get me to bite (I realize, there isn't any such animal in existence even).

Thanks Chuck! I guess that's what I get for trusting Wikipedia.

Is there a mid-level entry point expanded version of The White Album, like the 3CD Pepper? Looking at the Wikipedia entry for The White Album just now, it seems(?) to imply there's just the regular 2CD version (original album, no bonus tracks I presume?), or else a huge 6CD/1bluray version. I might bite on a 3CD version of The White Album (if there even is one), with the main album(s), and the Esher demos (disc 3) -- but I gather there's nothing like that available - ?? (Like it's all-or-nothing, in terms access to bonus material.) Am I gathering right?

And I'm eager to get your feedback on all 6 songs that "Ted" orchestrated for his son-in-law. I doubt many Who fans even know of them, and probably not even half of fans who profess to like Pete's solo work either. A couple of them are pretty unconventional too, particularly "Football Fugue". I barely have 3-4 Who albums, all expanded CD-reissues with bonus material with key Pete-only demos, and the like. Whereas I have about half to 2/3rds of Pete's entire solo catalog on CD, and even a few solo things that haven't ever been on CD. And these few obscure orchestral songs of his (the only versions of these particular tunes that he's ever recorded, far as I know), are among my favorites out of his entire solo catalog.

Me too -- I often confuse a few of Tolliver's tunes, and also a few of Billy Harper's too (but not with each other).

Apparently Astley also did some string-arrangements on a couple tunes on Who's Next (released in 1978). I'm not familiar with either of these songs, as I'm about a 5x bigger fan of Pete Townsend's solo output, than I am of The Who. http://www.thewho.net/discography/albums/WhoAreYou.html Roger Daltrey Vocals John Entwistle Bass Guitar, Vocals & synthesizer [and horns] Keith Moon Drums & Percussion Pete Townshend Guitar, Piano, Synthesizer & Vocals Andy Fairweather-Low Backing vocals on "New Song," "Had Enough," "Guitar And Pen," "Love Is Coming Down" and "Who Are You" [Andy was the lead singer of The Amen Corner in the mid-60's. Since 1991 he has been Eric Clapton's backup guitarist/vocalist and appeared on Clapton's Unpluggedalbum and also accompanied Pete on his 1993 Psychoderelict tour.] Rod Argent Synthesizer on "Had Enough" and piano on "Who Are You" [Rod was the keyboardist for The Zombies ("She's Not There," "Tell Her No") then headed the early 70's band Argent ("Hold Your Head Up"). He is now a producer, composer and performer.] Ted Astley String arrangements on "Had Enough" and "Love Is Coming Down" [Ted Astley, full name Edwin Thomas Astley, was born in 1922. In addition to being Pete's father-in-law, Astley was a composer for many British films and TV series including The Mouse That Roared, the 1962 version of The Phantom of the Opera, The Saint, and, oddly enough, the 1961 film A Matter Of Who. He died in 1998.] Produced by Glyn Johns and Jon Astley [Jon Astley is the son of Ted Astley and Pete's brother-in-law. He was [also] in charge of the 1994-1998 Who [CD] re-release program. Glyn Johns quit Who Are You after getting head-butted by Roger. He returned for 1982's It's Hard.] Engineering Assistance: Judy Szekely

"The Ferryman"... "I Like It The Way It Is"...

"Brooklyn Kids"... "Praying The Game"...

"Street In The City"... "Football Fugue"...

Ttk, do you know the six (6!) Pete Townshend solo-songs that Astley orchestrated in the mid-to-late 70's? If not, you should!! The first one came out on Pete's 1977 album Rough Mix. Then 4 more on Pete's 2nd compilation of 'demos' in 1987 called Another Scoop, and the last one on his 3rd demo compilation, 2001's Scoop 3. All but the very first one seems to have been recorded in 1978, iirc. If only these had been collected together, along with maybe 3- or 4 more -- or even some acoustic songs (without orchestra), it might have been Pete's finest hour's on record (imho). For anyone not aware, Edwin Astley (1922-1998) was also Pete Townshend's father-in-law (didn't want to presume you didn't know that, TtK). I don't really know a whole lot about the genesis of these tracks, but I think they are pretty close to divine! "Street In The City" (Rough Mix) "Football Fugue" (Another Scoop) "Brooklyn Kids" (Another Scoop) "Praying The Game" (Another Scoop) "The Ferryman" (Another Scoop) "I Like It The Way It Is" (Scoop 3) A bit of discussion here too (on the Hoffman board, and I think they've been mentioned collectively there in some other threads too). I'll try and post YouTube links to all of them in a moment. https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/street-in-the-city-pete-townshend.94039/#post-2070859

I'd suggest setting up an eBay auto-search, which should email you every time a new set comes up. In fact, you can probably set up two separate searches -- one more generally for the Lunceford Mosaic, and then a second one that's specifically for UK-based sellers only. That way if there's ever one from a UK source -- you'll get TWO emails (it'll come up on both searches) -- as a way of maximizing the chances of you not overlooking it. With some patience, you may snag one within just a few months.

I've mentioned this before, but about 15 years ago I fell in love with Schoenberg's mid-20's opus numbered chamber-works that all include winds. More specifically... Serenade, Op. 24 - for clarinet, bass clarinet, mandolin(!), guitar, violin, viola, and cello - plus a bass vocalist (on one movement only) Wind Quintet, Op. 26 - for standard wind-quintet: flute, oboe, clarinet, horn, and bassoon Suite, Op. 29 - for sopranino clarinet in Eb, standard Bb clarinet, bass clarinet, vioin, viola, cello, and piano ...plus Webern's chamber arrangement of Schoenberg's Chamber Symphony #1, Op. 9 - for flute, clarinet, violin, cello, and piano There's also a really nifty "sonata" arrangement of the Wind Quintet for piano and either violin, or else flute (and I've got recordings of each version, for flute or violin) -- and both versions are just dandy!! People complain about serialism not being any fun, but I find these particular pieces just about as spritely and "dancy" as all getout. When I was working to pack up our house to move to Washington DC, and it was just me for a few months trying to get that house shaped up to put on the market, I only had about 200 CD's to listen to -- most of them stuff I was going to get rid of, plus a all these Schoenberg pieces. Damn, if that music isn't ever just about THE best thing ever to get shit done to. I think I literally listened to 1-2 of these works every day (or every other day) for several weeks there. Joyous music, in my book, and complicated too -- but it always put a spring in my step, if not literally then at least mentally. And the funny thing is that I'm really NOT especially fond of wind quintets and other stuff like this generally. Sure, they're ok, but it's not like Wind Quintets are a specific 'thing' I'm into or anything.

I've tried with both Lulu and Wozzeck (on CD's at least), and I just can't get into either one. I've got a few Henze operas on CD (part of a HUGE Henze box I have), and those work a bit better for me -- though I'd be lying if I said I'd listened to any of them much in the last 10 years. For me, the modernist 12-tone stuff I'm pining to hear live most of all is Roger Sessions!! Especially symphonies 6, 7, or 9...

I'll agree that Journey To Air doesn't sound especially "organic". But I still think it hangs together better as a listening experience (at least for me), than the one with Bartz -- and the one with Bartz might very well be more "organic" (but it just was alternately tedious and occasionally torturous even, to my ears). I get the Strata East reference, but a few of those more woolly Strata East things have never clicked with me either (enough that I'm content to have access to them via YouTube uploads, and I've resisted the temptation to pay through the nose for $30 Japanese CD issues of them). There's a couple of the lesser Tribe dates that hit me the same way (most of which I have on CD, though a couple were more woolly than I realized before I paid the piper for them). BTW, I would LOVE for this Hino nugget to come out on CD somehow... https://www.discogs.com/Terumasa-Hino-Kosuke-Mine-Sadao-Watanabe-Takeru-Muraoka-Masabumi-Kikuchi-Yoshiaki-Masuo-Kunimitsu-In/release/11263311 I only know this one "Freedom Jazz Dance" track, but I can't help but imagine the whole thing is pretty interesting (or at least some of it). Here's FJD...

Since Hino is clearly reacting more in real-time to the changing musical world (or world of Miles) going on around him, rightly so (or not) I've always cut him a little slack because he seems to be trying to integrate Miles' changing language into his own. Maybe it's because Hino is just a stronger player (with more ideas, imho), but I've always felt he was more successful (generally) in his various endeavors from his debut in '67 up through '75 or so -- than say Kenny Cox' quintet in '68 & 69 (which was clearly heavily inspired by Miles 2nd quintet, circa 1967). That isn't to say I don't enjoy those 2 Kenny Cox BN dates for what they are (I do really like them), even if they aren't are refined as the real deal (in '67). Similarly I judge Hino as not quite being there too, though I think he gets closer (in terms of group cohesion, 'telepathy' (for lack of a better term), and the strength of the soloists Hino had in his bands was generally a bit strong than Kenny Cox' quintet too). ALSO, it seems (to me) like Hino was always behind Miles by about a year, and he also seemed to be 'evolving' somewhat in sync with Miles -- though these 4 new "free" albums give a whole new perspective I never knew about. Also, (re: Teo's influence), I think it needs to be said that MILES and his groups were never as cohesive (live) after ~1970, as they were all during the 2nd Quintet and Lost Quintet years. Miles and groups were probably more cohesive live (and more often) than Hino's during the same timeframe (in the first half of the 70's) -- but the difference is probably not vastly different. Whoever said Miles benefited from having a "Teo" -- and that Hino could have used a "Teo" was probably right. Maybe I'm a glass-is-half-full (rather than half-empty) kind of guy, but I still think it's rather remarkable how many highs Hino got to over the course of ~8 years (and maybe longer -- I really haven't ventured into his post-1976 material much). Also interesting, Jim, that yours and my reactions to Journey To Air and the other one with Bartz were almost exactly switched. Didn't help that the Bartz one sounded like it was recorded in a large bucket, but I also didn't feel like the smaller-group (the one with Bartz) added anything at all in terms group interplay. I just felt like it was way more unfocussed, with a whole lot LESS thought. Frankly, it felt like an unplanned, nearly totally-free blowing session (been a few weeks since I heard it, I'll have to spin it again). Whereas Journey To Air -- while it did sound more episodic, it almost reminded me of the way something like Trey Anastasio's "Surrender to the Air" group/album worked (the one with Sun Ra alums Michael Ray and Marshall Allen, along with John Medeski and Marc Ribot, along with others). It was free, but had an overall structure, and floated back and forth between different textures and periods of free interspersed with more organized free-sections (stuff that I think(?) reminds me a little of how Frank Zappa's "Approximate" worked -- isn't that the one that was notated rhythmically, but the players choose the notes to play)? Clearly the effect of "Approximate" is WAY more dense, and specific -- but my point is that Journey To Air -- while it's all pretty "free" -- there's lots of parts that are more organized than others, and everything is pretty episodic. Frankly, I was really surprised at how much I liked Journey To Air -- which I hadn't expected to like a ton based on my just skimming through it initially. But the one with Gary Bartz was just a total slog for me, top to bottom. Different strokes, I guess.

And not one -- but TWO cuts from Pete La Roca's Basra. Great album, definitely, but I don't get including fully 1/3rd of the tracks from just one album (2 of 6). And "Footprints" also doesn't make a lot of sense, if only because everybody's gonna have that one already (out of all the tunes on this set). I guess those are minor quibbles, though.

I send two CD's overseas back in December (from the US, to the UK), and could not believe that the cheapest shipping rate was over $20 (I think I paid around $23, iirc). There was no media-mail rate option at all, and what I had to pay was easily double(!) what I was expecting. I held my nose, and tried to forget what the price-tag was (what I was sending was effectively a gift, on my dime). Almost $12 per CD, just for shipping alone!!

Here's the track listing (below). I think I have about 90% of this stuff on CD already, but I will also probably pick up a copy since I've loved all of the previous volumes in this series, and it'll be interesting to see how the liners treat this material (their liners are often pretty nicely written). Also don't mind "voting" with my pocketbook for the continuation of this series, which I've loved. One VERY nice inclusion -- is the very last track, Solomon Ilori's 13-minute "Song of Praise To God", one of 3 long bonus tracks from 1964 which were previously exclusive to the expanded 2006 'Conn' of African High Life. 10 years ago(!) I started a whole thread about that extra session. It's more jazz-oriented than the regular full Ilori album, and I just love those 3 bonus tracks a ton -- VERY forward thinking, to my mind. Anyway, 3 cheers to the Jazzman compilers!! - for including one of them on this set new Spiritual Jazz set. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with for Vol. 10 (and I hope there are 10 more volumes after that too -- I'll buy every one of them). https://www.shinybeast.nl/item/471721/various_spiritual_jazz_9_blue_notes_parts_1_2.html 01. Bobby Hutcherson - Verse 02. Pete La Roca - Basra 03. Wayne Shorter - Footprints 04. Elvin Jones - At This Point In Time 05. Andrew Hill - Poinsettia 06. Eddie Gale - The Rain 07. Duke Pearson - Empathy 08. Bobby Hutcherson - Searchin' The Trane 09. Duke Pearson - The Phantom 10. Freddie Hubbard - Assunta 11. Joe Henderson - El Barrio 12. Jackie McLean - Plight 13. Duke Pearson - Cristo Redentor 14. Wayne Shorter - Indian Song 15. Hank Mobley - The Morning After 16. Pete La Roca - Malaguena 17. Freddie Hubbard - Blue Spirits 18. Booker Ervin - Gichi 19. Solomon Ilori - Song Of Praise To God You can also sample all the tracks here: https://www.juno.co.uk/products/spiritual-jazz-9-blue-notes-parts/714140-01/ The only one's I don't already have on CD are 2 of the later Duke Pearson tunes, iirc.

BTW (and just an FYI), I got the last 2 recent 'Takt Jazz' Hino titles (that I didn't yet have) in my last Dusty Groove order -- so (god help my pocketbook) -- that means I have all 7 of the new 'Takt Jazz' Hino CD reissues now, *PLUS* all 4 of the 'Deep Reality' Hino CD's too. My Hino collection (nearly all on CD) is really getting pretty large by this point, and includes about 85%(?) of his entire leader-dates from 1976 and before. After 1976 though, what I have is really kind of hit-n-miss. I'm not really sure I needed every last one of these titles, but there's always interesting material on nearly every one of them -- some more key than others, though, for sure. I'm thinking I may start a whole 'nother Terumasa Hino thread, to discuss all his leader-dates, in order -- one by one -- with as many different examples (mostly uploads from YouTube) as I can find. I think you can sample full-length tracks from about 70% of the first decade of Hino's leader-dates (1967-1976) -- but a lot of them aren't clearly identified on YouTube (but you can figure them out if you also have them on CD, in part from the track-times). Sometimes it takes searching on specific song-titles only (without Hino's name even). Or searching with his name in Japanese, i.e.: 日野 皓正. Such a thread would I figure be helpful/useful to those just digging into his output, since some of it can be a little tricky to sort out. Where I can't find uploads, I'll try and give some descriptive reviews, and of course others can chime in with what they think too. I think I have around 25 of Hino's leader-dates on CD, and maybe another 6-8 sideman appearances too. I'll have to list them all.

I just discovered that Eric Dolphy's "Vintage Dolphy" on the GM label, aparently ISN'T just a bunch of repackaged tunes from elsewhere -- i.e. the suprerfluous compilation that I sure thought it was all these years. I'll have to track one down now, probably, one of these days. So what OTHER "damn that sure looks like a comp I really don't need" releases have I been oblivious to all these years? Especailly with unique material either not available anywhere else (or not on CD anyway). Actual compilations are OK -- as long as they're especially interesting, and if they include otherwise hard-to-find material. Here's the details on "Vintage Dolphy" (and the line-ups and provinance of each track is slightly clearer than on the back-cover image below, though neither one is 100% clear). Mods: Feel free to move this into a different forum (other than 'Discography'), if appropriate. https://www.discogs.com/Eric-Dolphy-Vintage-Dolphy/release/1482588

Un mas...

Or that's the Reid Miles cover that looks especially like the inspiration for several of Patrick Roques' covers.

Lovely picture/lovely cover! Don't suppose anyone can find a pic on one in better condition?? https://www.discogs.com/Various-International-Jazz-In-Helsinki/release/5177057