Milestones

Happy birthday indeed! I'm thinking Jimmy is 88? Somewhere around there anyway. I've seen him only once in concert, about 10 years ago. He was head-and-shoulders the best musician on the stage.

Sadly, I have never seen McCoy in live performance. Something I have missed, and it may never happen. What is he up to these days, anyway?

I know Fly with the Wind has the strings, and from what I gather this works considerably better than a much later album strings album where he plays the music of Bacharach--nobody seems to like that one. As for "Fly with the Wind" (the piece) my favorite version is the one for big band on The Turning Point. My own favorite albums: The Real McCoy Expansions Tender Moments Echoes of a Friend Sahara Sama Layuca Super Trios The Turning Point 44th Street Suite Remembering John Soliloquy And I probably missed some.

That's funny you mention that because I heard one track from this on an Impulse sampler and didn't much care for it, especially Gilmore's solo. It just made me think, "How did this guy get such an exalted reputation?" But I suppose I should hear the whole record.

McCoy Tyner is almost certainly the most well-represented pianist in my jazz collection. I don’t have much from the (solo) Impulse days, I have everything from Blue Note (both stretches), the majority of the stuff on Milestone, a good helping from a long period where he popped just about anywhere, all the stuff on Telarc, all the stuff on his own label. Some stretches are brief, like the last two, but add it all up…and it’s a lot. Then you have all the appearances with Coltrane, and I have lots of Coltrane. I’m still working on Milestone stuff, because there are still some discoveries there for me. He did it all in those years: the Coltrane-inspired quartets, all-star trios, one great solo record, many intriguing mid-size groups, big band, strings, voices. One major discovery is Sama Layuca with Hutcherson, Bartz, Lawrence, and Stubblefield. Great stuff, by turns intense and haunting. Records I have not heard on Milestone are Atlantis, Inner Voices, and Fly with the Wind. I invite your comments and recommendations.

I wouldn't question that for a moment.

Jazzbo, I'm thinking of the period between Tanjah and the Portraits albums, and that's 10 albums, which is actually more than I thought. But I would submit this is his most obscure period. I've only managed to pick up The Healers and maybe two more from this period. These projects all seemed to be solo or very small group.

I don't have much at all from Weston during most of 70s-80s decades....not that a whole lot was put out anyway.

Cool. I've been following Weston a long time, ever seen I heard his group (on the radio) performing at the Chicago Jazz Festival around 1991. He had just put out the large and magnificent Spirits of our Ancestors--my first album of his and probably still my favorite. Weston got on that great run, starting with the "Portraits" albums, where he summed up all his possibilities as player, composer, and visionary. Loved so much from that era, but also went back to discover some great records from the early career: Liitle Niles, African Cookbook, and others. The last really good record he's made (IMO) is Zep Tepi. I have seen him in concert four times (twice solo), and it was fantastic each time. The ablum with Harper sounds intriguing. It will naturally be comparped to The Healers--the duet records with David Murray.

Is the general feeling that Iron City is the best non-Blue Note Grant Green record?

Yeah, I recently saw something about that set with Gene Harris that was never issued.

I know there are a ton of these under the names of various organists, and I'm most intrigued to check out Big John Patton. Under his own name, Green worked fairy often with Larry Young (with Elvin Jones in the drum chair). I've finally heard all of Talkin' About, which I'd say is one of the finest of all Grant Green records. This is the is core trio, of course. I have also heard all of Street of Dreams, where the group is joined by Bobby Hutcherson; nice record too, and quite different from Talkin'. I know there's other stuff as well, such as I Want to Hold Your Hand and Larry Young's Into Something. Your comments and recommendations please.

Some intriguing suggestions here. There are some real obscurities (from the Beatles' perspective), such as "Flying" and "The Inner Light."

An recommendations of jazz artists doing The Beatles? I have one single artist record in this vein: Frisell's All We are Saying, which actually features 50% solo Lennon. It's a fine record, IMO. I also checked out the GRP record, I got No Kick Against Modern Jazz. I'm not a GRP fan, but some of this stuff isn't bad. I know that even in the Beatles' time Blue Note artists (and many others) were doing their songs, though with mixed results (to say the least). It's not an easy thing. But I grew up on rock music, and the Beatles were (and are) the best. I also wouldn't mind some recommendation on jazz artists doing other song from the classic rock canon: Dylan, Stones, the Who, the Doors, etc.

I don't know if this is the right place to put this, or whether this website has been discussed anywhere. But quite by accident I ran across a website called this: IOMOIO. I don't know much about the quality, but the prices are dirt cheap. Individual tracks tend to cost .16. Older records, such as Blue Notes from the 60s, can usually be had for less than a buck. Selection is good, if maybe not as good as some other websites. I just can't believe such a website can cost so little.

What the hell? This is so bad is nearly destroys my recent admiration for Coryell's talents. Singing is, for sure, not one of them!

Is this the trio record with Kenny Burrell from the 90s? I've always liked the combination of Smith and Burrell, and this record is one of the best--on a par, if not better than, the 60's records with Stanley Turrnetine. Nothing against Mr. T., but I like hearing Kenny receiving plenty of limelight.

I am largely impressed by the sheer QUANTITY of Andrew Hill's work on Blue Note. By comparison, Monk recorded little for the label; but obviously what he did was great and influential--and definitely more of a contribution to the "jazz canon."

Maybe most of are still in the haze of the idea of jazz's golden era, which for most ends about 1965. True, great music came out in those days, but let's not go thinking the last 50 years have failed to offer creative, thriving music. Perhaps Ornette Coleman is an interesting case, in that some of his later music would show up in the hands of Old and New Dreams, Pat Metheny, etc.

Ok, let me add that I threw in Zawinul because he did compose a lot, he is admired by a fair number of fans, and he is more modern than the big names like Ellington, Mingus, and Monk. I would also point out that he was usually the dominant composer of Weather Report, which is interesting when you consider Wayne Shorter's lofty status as composer. We could make an interesting turn on this thread and discuss who has emerged in the last three or four decades as a major composer whose works are frequently recorded by other jazz artists. Are there any such figures? If so, why not? Even Andrew Hill's stuff is not covered a lot, but didn't Nels Cline do an entire tribute?

OK, I'll admit to misreading the statement on Hutcherson, Young, Rivers, etc. Still, I would say that Hill leaned in this slightly avant garde direction and was a more prolific composer than them and arguably more ambitious. I will also readily admit that in the 1960s Blue Note did get away from the more basic approach of the 1950s. But you could certainly say that of jazz in general.

I'm not asking about stylistic comparisons. You could probably take any two jazz composers and find it's like comparing Bach to Stravinsky. The Silver/Hill comparison is about the sheer volume of compositions produced by Silver and Hill on Blue Note. I would be shocked to learn that anyone else did as much composing on the label. Of course, we could talk about "quality" all day long. While I'm sure opinions vary greatly on Hill, I can't imagine anyone saying he was a run-of-the-mill composer. While I find their work respectable and often quite interesting, I'm not at all prepared to put Hutcherson, Larry Young, Joe Henderson, or Sam Rivers in the same category as Duke, Mingus, Coltrane, Weston.

Your thoughts on Andrew Hill as the greatest Blue Note composer. I mean this primarily in terms of the sheer quantity of his stuff--sticking exclusively to his own work and very rarely remaking/revisiting tunes. To me, it seem that Horace Silver is the only possible rival. Of course, there is Monk and Nichols, but neither recorded much for the label. Perhaps Shorter and Mobley would get some nods. Of course, quality is a prime factor as well. I like that Blue Note (at some point, at least) strove to emphasize original compositions, but you have to admit a lot of it is very "basic" stuff. By and large jazz's greatest composers recorded little or nothing for Blue Note--Ellington, Mingus, Coltrane, Weston, Golson, Gillespie, Zawinul.

So why is it that when I type "Andrew Hill" into search, only my new forum comes up?

Because maybe there is nothing wrong with NEW discussion. And there is certainly OLD stuff out there if you're talking about ANDREW HILL GIGS.