JSngry

After the lunch I had today, I think that after some pressing, there will be a poop that packs a punch, after which there will be a feeling of liberty. How's that for a contrasts?

No, I like Street Life! And Randy Crawford! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QylzShXgzRY&feature=fvst

Was America the same when Whitney came onto the scene as it was when Aretha signed to Atlantic? Would The Cosby Show have gotten made when Aretha signed to Atlantic? And, great skills aside, how long was Aretha's reputation as "the Queen of Soul" a mater of image rather than reality? Also, does assimilation come at the price of freedom come at the price of identity? Or is it all really nothing more than what you choose make of it at any given time? Can one have a new identity, or is the one you get the one you keep, anything else being fraudulent? Stuff like that. I guess the question is, how long (and how realistically) can one "look back" when one's circumstances start one further towards the from end of "success" than the back? And how right (not understandable, but right) is for those on the back end to clamor "stay, don't go" when those on the front end are pretty much all saying "c'mon in!"? If Whitney wasn't conflicted at the beginning of her career, I'd wager that she sure as hell was before it was all over (and that she's not been the only one...). I don't claim to have any answers, none at all. I don't think there are any answers, truthfully. America is like that. I just don't think that it's as easy as saying that "soul music shed its roots" or something like that.

You should get Tupac to do this one.

Nicholas Payton would have more of a field day with this than I could even begin to have, but...the two questions I always have when I hear something like this are - at what point does assimilation = loss of identity, and - what pains should the Assimilated take to be Readily Identifiable As Assimilated But Not Too Assimilated? In other words, is this thing gonna ever work, or not? Frankly, I don't know that too much of what I hear in Gospel music these days wears its "roots" like it once did, so...

That the BBC article focuses on the technique itself and its impact on pop music while all but ignoring its usages and meanings in African-American Gospel music says pretty much all there is to say abut why this stuff has gone so horribly WRONG. It also underscores how Whitney Houston was fundamentally misunderstood by the pop audience, and perhaps even how she herself didn't understand what it was that she was getting herself into, musically or culturally. Whitney's style of melisma is not just a "technique". it's a freaking language, and too many, waaaaay too many people have been speaking it phonetically, to the point where I've no doubt that they all understand each other, but they're in no way speaking the language as it once existed. It would be like if me and a buch of my buddies moved to Japan, couldn't comprehend the Japanese language, and just started using the characters to mean whatever we wanted them to mean becuase we liked the way they looked and sounded. Sure, we'd all understand it, and as our community grew, more people would understand it as "Japanese", but...if we started getting a few hostile "fuck you"s from the native population, well, that could be understood, no? On the other hand, languages do evolve, and clueless barbarians unknowingly wreck havoc without malice. So be it. Maybe I'm just an old fart elitist. But Mariah Carey is not Shirley Caesar. Hell, she's not even Whitney Houston.

I know you don't follow house music, but it appears to the last non-gospel refuge of great gospel-based female singers...which is not to say that house music is overflowing with them (it's not), just that if you want to look for them, that's probably going to be your best starting point...if you can get into it at all, and if not, hey, I understand. In hindsight, you gotta wonder how this whole thing would have turned out if Whitney had not been so drop-dead gorgeous (the back cover of her first LP is about as stunningly sexy as anything ever put on a mainstream pop album cover, hadn't had the modelling career, hadn't been dropped on the scene as a Full-Fledged Pop Goddess, and had just started out singing R&B, cultivating that audience. and then had the cross-over success. Musicall and personally, we might be having an entirely different Whitney Houston Conversation right now. Or not. Who knows? But remember the whole "Whitney's not Black enough, she's turned White on us!!" brouhaha of days gone by? That was some weird, deep, dark shit (and for all I know, some "Only In America" stuff as well), and I'll never be convinced that it didn't leave scars on her psyche. Was the marriage to Bobby Brown an attempt to "prove" something? Was it a declaration of "true identity"? Was it just some crazyass pop madness? All of the above? None? All I can say is that if "Exhale" didn't/doesn't "settle the issue" of who the "real" Whitney Houston was, then nothing does. And please, listen again to that acapella track of "Your Love Is My Love". Removed of all the pop production trappings of the original, there is so much being communicated through that voice. So much. God bless the real Whitney Houston, and may she rest forevermore in peace.

Dexter did a version of this one. Still not sure how that came about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYZFauAoQ0g

Venus Williams Ted Williams Ricky Williams

Aha, there seem to be two different covers. I had only ever seen the one that that actually has Mobley, which I assume is a second corrected version. But yes, who is the tenorist on the other one? Top one looks like Johnny Griffin to me... Harold Land.

WHOA! Hank's not on Amazon yet?

Dave Lambert was on a turnpike, iirc. Or was that Clifford Brown?

The "American Idol" approach to vocals. I'll blame Mariah Carey for that, not Whitney. It was Carey who used the vocabulary without displaying any sense of their meaning. I think Whitney didn't understand the context in which she was working, how to modify it to meet the lighter demands of the material and intents. Seems to me that she was just running with the "star trip" and not paying any attention to the music as anything other than a vehicle for stardom. But I strongly believe that in church, she could hit it the way it was meant to be hit. Not so, Carey. The net effect might be the same in terms of impact, but when I hear Whitney's "excesses", I understand them, even if I don't like them. With Carey, I neither understand nor like them. OTOH, I hear Soledad O'Brein make a comment yesterday morning regarding Whitney's performance of the national anthem, something to the effect that what moved her the most about that performance was the shher joy she felt in it of a singer in prime voice just sailing through the song, knowing that she was nailing it ina way that very few people could. I might call that intoxication with one's own talents and caution that it's a short cut to a long road of trouble, but...I can understand how and why people who can't sing (well or at all) and who don't delve too deeply into the nuances of performance can be thrilled by it, inspired by it, even. I'm listening to that acapella (isolated vocal track, really) of "Your Love Is My Love", and it's getting to me pretty hard. I'm hearing a singer and a person who, for whatever reasons, was forced to look down, not up, and....they found something meaningful, and they held on to it. You don't get that on American Idol.

Chuck Tanner Shirley Booth The Rinkle Family: http://www.rinkle.com/

Bill Takas Bill Toomey Fred Moomey

I don't mind the original reverb at all, actually. That's the way I grew up hearing this stuff, and it still sounds "right" (and "AM radio-ready") to me. But I'd not mind a re-imaging of it as long as it's not too dry. I hate uber-dry big band recordings. Some of those early Basie Pablos come to mind...

When you say "the first Vanguard album", were you referring to the Solid State LP "Live at the Village Vanguard" or to Alan Grant's "Opening Night: Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Big Band at the Village Vanguard February 7, 1966", which showed up on CD for about a week back in 2000? I do like that Opening Night CD quite a bit. I think I'll play it again when I get home. I just hope Alan Grant used good CD-Rs when he had these CDs pressed. Kevin The CD version of the Solid State LP. I meant to pick up that Alan Grant thing but never did. Gone already, eh? So....if I have all the LPs + the LRC thing + the first Solid State Vanguard CD, the only thing I get new on the set is those two songs from the 45 (what's up with them, anyway) + the alternate take of "Mornin' Reverend", right? But - the Mosaic set also cleans up/out the reverb & stuff from the original issues, right? How does that work on the studio stuff, is there still some wetness from the room sound or is it totally dry? And yeah, this thing seems to be pricey. Hmmmm....

whoa....

You'll be pleased.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVeKnYitGVA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46ZgyLhHfnY&feature=related

What extras are on it, how much does it usually run, is there anything on the set that's not come out on "mainstream" issue CD, and how's the book? Just got the upside of my head smacked good by the first Vanguard album on a road trip this past weekend. Between Richard Davis, Mel, Thad's clusterisms. & Snooky Young....Good GOD was that stuff hittin'! I got all the albums (not the vocal ones, though), but on older LPs. Please discuss!

You got anything besides Facebook links? I don't do Facebook. But I might could do Crispell/Grimes.

The best way to avoid surprises is to buy the manufacturer's brand. Do you overpay? Sure. But do you like surprises at your printer? I don't.