Guy Berger

This is generally part of their business plan, so "missing" may not be the right word to use. Though sometimes they do it out of sheer incompetence rather than intention.

Fair enough, but even in 1990 (around when the liner notes where written) it already was a bit reminiscent of "get off my lawn!!"

A purist digging on Miles At Fillmore. Now that's Progress In My Lifetime! In the liner notes to the 90s CD reissue of My Funny Valentine and Four and More, the author says something like "despite his recent fusion misadventures, the music Miles Davis will be remembered for are his small group work and collaborations with Gil Evans." Does anybody have this handy, and is willing to dig up the name of the author and exact quote?

I've only heard the Vanguard albums. Good stuff, especially Distant Hills and Winter Light. I never checked out the later work - the descriptions and reviews made it seem like not my cup of tea.

I always enjoy these kinds of articles - it's interesting to hear musicians' thoughts about others' music, at least if they are trying to engage with it honestly. And I'm especially fascinated by how non-straight-ahead musicians perceive "the tradition".

I feel like either me or you said this in the past, but it would have been better with a different, less "controlled" bassist and drummer.

Woohoo! Exciting. I'd only heard a few excerpts from this concert.

I'm not sure I follow you completely. From my own modest collection of his albums, I really enjoy "Like Someone in Love" from Lush Life, "In a Sentimental Mood" from the Duke Ellington album and of course "Blue in Green" for example, and count them amongst the best of his ballad playing (there is a lot of Coltrane material that I haven't heard though especially late Coltrane). Would you say that those are "mystically infused"? How about "Naima"? I would definitely call the intense and intensely beautiful material from 1965 like Dear Lord, Dearly Beloved, and certain pieces from First Meditations for example mystically infused ballads. They probably wouldn't qualify as ballads by definition. These pieces are profound. Kind of what erwbol said. I think "Naima" qualifies, the others don't. (I'm talking about Coltrane leader dates, but I assume you are referring to "Blue in Green" on "Kind of Blue." Having Miles on the recording changes the context). Perhaps you rate them more highly than I do. My larger point is that when Coltrane was able to get out of the "me and thee" of Tin Pan Alley ballads and into some larger sphere of feeling or connectedness, then his music is more powerful. "I love you" as opposed to "a love supreme." To me, handing Coltrane a stack of well-worn ballads was insulting, and a cash grab. Did someone tell Picasso, "Pablo baby, all these cube things, with womens' heads on sideways," just not what people are asking for. Here, paint some nice boats on a lake or something, people can hang over their sofas." Although well-made, according to the conventional standards, it was retrogressive to his particular artistry. I guess it's all a matter of taste, but it seems odd to downgrade a whole lot of romantically motivated output in the history of art. Picasso painted his lovers, FWIW. One thing that's worth mentioning is that there's a strong common thread running through his more traditional ballad interpretations and the more adventurous ballad style that he developed during the 1960s. On the Ballads album specifically, "You Know What Love Is" seems to bridge these two approaches. Second thing - I'm a little surprised that people are classifyng "Dear Lord" with the later ballads. Despite the relatively late recording date I always thought this was a fairly traditional (but beautiful!) performance.

Strongly disagree. "Naima". "In a Sentimental Mood". "I Want to Talk About You"!!!!

Yes - ironic that his best ballad performances are elsewhere.

THIS. Trane's playing on the Prestige Miles sessions (esp the Nov 1955 and May 1956 dates) was erratic and Miles probably didn't want him screwing up the ballads. Once he became a more consistent player, Miles started including him. It's worth noting that at the Nov 1956 session, where his playing was much better, he played a solo on two of the three ballads. And he's a soloist on "Blue in Green", where Cannonball Adderley (himself a fine ballad player) has to sit out. Since we are singing the praises of Trane's ballad playing, let's not omit his magnificent playing on "Dearly Beloved", "Love", "Serenity", "Psalm", "Song of Praise", "Ogunde", "Offering", "Seraphic Light", "Venus"...

I don't think that anyone said that Hill played "composer's piano". That's a figment of your imagination. Leeway did say: "In similar vein, I find Hill's piano playing composer-ly (in the service of the composition), rather than virtuosic (in the service of the musician). Hill was a fine pianist, but the pianism was inextricably bound up with his composing." To me, that sounds a lot like Ellington. I don't think that anyone would say that Duke Ellington played "composer's piano". You're right, I misunderstood Leeway's argument(s). Apologies!

I love Andrew's piano playing; I definitely wouldn't characterize him as playing "composer's piano". I mean, that intro to "Teeter Totter" on OUR THING!

Wow, all this semi-bashing of "Soulville" makes me sad! I wouldn't put this one at the same level as "Meets Oscar Peterson", but the up-tempo tracks near the beginning are wonderful. I also really like the meetings with Hawkins (so good!) and Mulligan (though I agree, this may be Ben at 9/10 instead of 10/10). Most of the other records mentioned here I have in my massive backlog, but haven't gotten around to hearing yet! Also: nobody's mentioned the first studio jam session Granz recorded. While I wouldn't necessarily describe it as Ben's best appearance, he absolutely crushes Flip Phillips. P.S. Another vote for Legrand Jazz! Larry describes this perfectly. Not necessarily a perfect album, but with plenty of individual moments of perfection.

I've been known to complain about flawed BN personnel selections from time to time (Mode for Joe! sigh) but I think Kenny is perfect here. By the way, While I really like Charles's playing during this period - much better than it was 3-4 years later, and for all we know he could have meshed very well with his fellow Chico alum Eric - I am glad Joe was the guy who showed up that day. Anybody game for going up to Lloyd at a concert and asking him about his near-role in PoD?

Yeah! Especially the first track.

YES. It's like the BLUE IN GREEN of semi-avant-garde-jazz.

I agree that Dolphy "dominates" this session as an instrumentalist. I view that as a point in its favor; Dolphy on a good day is one of the most glorious things in jazz, and here we have "Dolphy on a good day" complemented by an array of 5 other great musicians and 5 fantastic compositions.

March 21, 1964 was when Andrew Hill, Eric Dolphy, Joe Henderson, Kenny Dorham, Richard Davis, and Tony Williams went into the studio and recorded this amazing album.

I hate these kinds of crappy semi-science articles.

<Shrug> To me it looks like Penguin are simply applying different grading criteria to different styles of music, with some styles and musicians benefiting from grade inflation. Anybody sufficiently motivated to calculate Bailey and/or Parker's "Penguin GPA" compared to that of Louis Armstrong's or Duke Ellington? I'm too lazy.

I actually don't think the problem is an underrating of BNs (and more straight-ahead stuff), but an overrating of avant-garde jazz and non-jazz improvisational music (on average). They are much, much more generous with ****s with the latter than with the former. Guy That may be. Do you have any good examples of that? IIRC, in the case of many BNs, they tended to review the results as formulaic or pedestrian, so maybe did value the avant stuff higher just for being different. I know I have my own bias in that direction. But I would be interested in egregious examples of overrating the avant-garde stuff too highly. Derek Bailey and Evan Parker are the first two examples that come to mind.

I like a fair amount of his playing, but many of his contemporaries were better IMHO.

Nice guy and I have to say his seemingly indefatigable positive attitude was refreshing on this board, we sometimes get a little too jaded and snarky.

I actually don't think the problem is an underrating of BNs (and more straight-ahead stuff), but an overrating of avant-garde jazz and non-jazz improvisational music (on average). They are much, much more generous with ****s with the latter than with the former. Guy