Guy Berger

The JSngry-chewy Victor Feldman-1984 Cybill Sheppard TV guide cover may be my 2nd favorite O-forums exchange of all time.

As to the second point, probably not, but how can we say? As to the first, again, this is not an avant garde vs. mainstream thing. Josh Berman, Keefe Jackson, or Mike Reed are not working in strictly avant garde contexts. Neither is Sylvie Courvoisier, nor Tarbaby or Trio 3, nor Nicole Mitchell, Steve Lehman, Tony Malaby, Angelica Sanchez, Wadada Leo Smith, Dennis Gonzalez, Harris Eisenstadt ... It's a question of accurately representing the landscape of modern jazz. If you like the new Dave Douglas & Uri Cane record, there's nothing that would scare you away from anyone I listed above. There's no reason to ignore what's actually happening. Shrug. I still don't understand why you believe these guys are making "original music" in a way that Jason Moran is not. Seems like this boils down to "music I like" and "music I don't like". perhaps because the album featured on NPR is a tribute to Fats Waller? Tributes in jazz have a long history, right? I could understand the "original music" beef if this was some sort of unimaginative repertory regurgitation, but that doesn't seem to be the case. In fact, the tone of complaints in this thread seem to come from the opposite direction.

As to the second point, probably not, but how can we say? As to the first, again, this is not an avant garde vs. mainstream thing. Josh Berman, Keefe Jackson, or Mike Reed are not working in strictly avant garde contexts. Neither is Sylvie Courvoisier, nor Tarbaby or Trio 3, nor Nicole Mitchell, Steve Lehman, Tony Malaby, Angelica Sanchez, Wadada Leo Smith, Dennis Gonzalez, Harris Eisenstadt ... It's a question of accurately representing the landscape of modern jazz. If you like the new Dave Douglas & Uri Cane record, there's nothing that would scare you away from anyone I listed above. There's no reason to ignore what's actually happening. Shrug. I still don't understand why you believe these guys are making "original music" in a way that Jason Moran is not. Seems like this boils down to "music I like" and "music I don't like".

Is avant garde jazz "original music" in a way that Jason Moran is not? We're talking about mature art forms here. Practically speaking, public perceptions of jazz as a "dead music" are not going to change regardless of what NPR plays.

Great! I have never heard PLAYING.

Love this list and the discussion it spurred. MG, I am a little surprised by the complete absence of any early Horace Silver. I realize that ultimately HS was more "hard bop" than "soul jazz", but I get the sense that tunes like "The Preacher" and "Doodlin' " helped guide the evolution of the style.

Great discussion. That version of "The Sunflower" is great; even the later stuff has outside playing - consider the version of "Drum Music" on LOST IN A DREAM (ECM, with Jason Moran and Chris Potter).

Definitely getting the Lyons. On the fence re Sun Ra and Chico. And with the Blackwell - is it worth getting if I already have the magnificent duet album with Dewey Redman (if you don't - get this box!!!!) and the two O&ND albums?

Yes! Some of the finest Monk was on Prestige; stronger batting average than on Riverside, IMHO.

Sorry, but I can't buy that even a little. There has never been a record executive in history that ran a multi-million dollar company that said "fuck money, I've got a legacy to build!" Alfred was no fool, and by the mid 60's it was pretty clear the direction Jazz had moved in. The Three Sounds comparison is trite at best. There were outliers, but AG was the main attraction. You might as well have refused to sign a Hair Metal band in the 80's while continuing to look for the next Jim Croce. Empirical evidence supports Jim here. In the pre-1967 era, if BN had wanted to simply sell more jazz records, then (assuming some sort of constraint on production resources), they would have released a lot more soul jazz and less avant-garde stuff. Avant-garde jazz (or inside/outside music) was perhaps the main attraction in terms of critical response (indeed, an interesting discussion would be the long-running critical discomfort with soul jazz), but not in terms of $$$$. There's a reason why Jimmy Smith, Grant Green, Stanley Turrentine, the Three Sounds made so many frickin records. No reason to pretend that AL/BN ever said "fuck money", but pretty clearly the more commercial stuff subsidized the more esoteric music.

Yes I know about all of those. I was wondering if he performed anything like "Walkin'" or "My Funny Valentine". Things like that. I just discovered a Round Midnight recording from 1968 with Chick Corea AND Wynton Kelly both on Electric Pianos. Last known MFV recording is from May 1966. Last known Walkin recording is from December 1968. Last known Round Midnight recording is from October 1969.

Miles played several of the 1960s Shorter quintet tunes (Paraphernalia, Footprints, Masqualero) in 1970 when Grossman was in the band. And of course, "I Love too Easily" as a trumpet/ep duet.

The latter has circulated widely as a recording and is available on voldemort.com.

Would be amazing to hear this. My recollection is that whenever Miles played "Nefertiti" live, it was with individual solos - i.e., not like the studio version. He performs "Nefertiti" on the Vol.2 bootleg correct? Still haven't bought Vol.2 or 3 yet. There are four known live recordings of Nefertiti, all from 1969 with the "Lost Quintet". 2 of them are available on the second box (7/26/69 and 11/5/69).

Would be amazing to hear this. My recollection is that whenever Miles played "Nefertiti" live, it was with individual solos - i.e., not like the studio version.

So why does anyone care about Ferguson anyway? Isn't he primarily known for making high-pitched squealing sounds and recording lots of bad music?

Very excited both about the Mark Turner (album & concerts), and about the Tim Berne (Stone residency).

This is why we still have the DVD+streaming plan.

Frank Zappa, We're Only in It for the Money

He was extremely hilarious, but I think you could argue that (with some major exceptions) that he exercised more quality control with his serious and semi-serious roles. On the other hand, if I could keep just one RW movie, MRS FRICKIN DOUBTFIRE.

I've finally gotten around to listening to the first two PI discs (Harvesting Semblances & Affinities, The Mancy of Sound), which I picked up at a SC performance about three years ago. Interesting - I definitely wasn't anticipating this sound, which is much more "acoustic" and less funky (though still very rhythmically rich!) than the other discs I've heard. Will have to pick up Functional Arrhythmias too.

I've been enjoying Dufay's music recently - I picked up the Jeremy Summerly/Oxford Camerata disc on Naxos. I also recently picked up the Clerks Group's performance of various Johannes Ockeghem sacred music; I believe the label is ASV.

Guys, I keep trying to find JS Bach's best bluegrass album, but have so far been unsuccessful. Any recommendations?

One other option, pursued by the OP, is trolling people who do like it. Persecution complex implies a level of sincerity not present here, IMHO. (Not the most original troll, granted...)

When I studied composition at a university in the late 70s under J. Lessard, he, along with all of the other teachers there, were all pushing the strict twelve-tone method of Schoenberg (whom Lessard disliked- he preferred Webern). I switched teachers, and my new teacher disliked Webern (he said his music sounded like a bunch of little farts), and preferred Schoenberg. Meanwhile, Lessard hated my new teacher's music (he'd slam the door shut if he heard him playing it on the piano, saying something like, "will you stop that infernal noise!"), along with jazz (I asked him what he thought of it, and he said, "I don't think of it"). At that point, I just decided to get my degree, and forget about academia. Fast forward to 1990, and the Times does a big article on the death of twelve-tone music (after it had completely emptied the concert halls), citing many of the leading composers of the day saying things to the effect of, 'Oh, it was all just a big mistake, and we won't do it anymore, if you'd just come back to the concert halls...' I CAN HAZ CHEEZBURGER?!?