Guy Berger

I'm a big fan of Ethan's interviews; I've found that I've learned a lot about jazz from reading them. (I also like his playing!) And while I can't say I've agreed with him about every musical opinion he's ever expressed, I was more or less on the same page as him regarding Corea and Peterson. I guess, without "implying certain motivations", it's fair to say that it's a relatively popular (but not universal) opinion around here. Whereas I think if you talked to a lot of non-hard-core jazz fans, they'd probably be surprised that some people don't like him.

It's based on a supposed quote from Leon Theremin exculpating Joseph Stalin for murdering millions of Soviet citizens.

Ha! So someone did tell them about Pierre Menard. Anyway, big shrug here. Fun philosophy exercise and, if they succeeded in their aim, bad music. Save your time and your money - read the Borges story.

Ummmm, somebody should tell these guys that Pierre Menard was a fictional being

Seemed like a kind-hearted, enthusiastic guy. Will be missed. RIP.

You should definitely make this exact same anti-GB snark once per thread-page or every 20 months, whichever comes sooner.

Many, many more Americans will die of the flu than of ebola over the next year.

"Curated" that hodgepodge!? I guess in the same way that Stone Cold Creamery "curates" your mix-ins. (What a pretentious cliche. Does this make Moran a curator now?). The nightclub seating concept is straight from the KC Jazz Club. I can see why Threadgill didn't play a note with this mish-mash. That would have been to participate in a travesty of his own work. OK, we know you don't like JM, but you realize you are giving off a "Get off my lawn, Dennis the Menace" vibe, right?

Indeed, Occam's Razor would suggest that he plays with these guys because... he is interested in their music. We can debate whether the artistic fruits of his engagement with these veterans are positive (on the discs I have heard, it is; maybe elsewhere it is disappointing or a disaster) but the accusations of venality are bizarre. Also, with the exception of Lloyd and maybe Motian, it's more likely that the "exposure benefit" was running from Moran to the veteran artist.

Same here. FWIW I only have one of his discs as a leader (BLACK STARS, which is terrific) and don't really have any plans to pick up the latest one.

Aside from his work with Sam Rivers, I have also enjoyed his appearances with Charles Lloyd, Paul Motian and Bunky Green. Great stuff. The complaints about "he does too much work with older musicians" is an interesting mirror image of the more common kvetch, "jazz musicians don't apprentice enough as sidemen anymore."

I just received a copy - looks interesting. I need to pick up Discovery for its inclusion of one of my favorite drummers, JC Moses. My dad used to have a few Lloyd records, which I tried on briefly as I was first getting into creative music, and they didn't fit. Have not heard his music in quite some time. Discovery is a great, great record. Highly recommended to anyone who like inside/outside tenor playing of mid-60s vintage.

Herbie Hancock "Circle", "Mappo" Keith Jarrett, "Inflight" Duke Ellington, "Cotton Tail" (original recording) Billy Strayhorn, "Johnny Come Lately"

Stan Getz, PEOPLE TIME John Coltrane, OLATUNJI CONCERT

More or less on the same page as Bev. Would rather have either an orchestral work or a solo instrument work. Concertos often seem to be an inferior hybrid.

The JSngry-chewy Victor Feldman-1984 Cybill Sheppard TV guide cover may be my 2nd favorite O-forums exchange of all time.

As to the second point, probably not, but how can we say? As to the first, again, this is not an avant garde vs. mainstream thing. Josh Berman, Keefe Jackson, or Mike Reed are not working in strictly avant garde contexts. Neither is Sylvie Courvoisier, nor Tarbaby or Trio 3, nor Nicole Mitchell, Steve Lehman, Tony Malaby, Angelica Sanchez, Wadada Leo Smith, Dennis Gonzalez, Harris Eisenstadt ... It's a question of accurately representing the landscape of modern jazz. If you like the new Dave Douglas & Uri Cane record, there's nothing that would scare you away from anyone I listed above. There's no reason to ignore what's actually happening. Shrug. I still don't understand why you believe these guys are making "original music" in a way that Jason Moran is not. Seems like this boils down to "music I like" and "music I don't like". perhaps because the album featured on NPR is a tribute to Fats Waller? Tributes in jazz have a long history, right? I could understand the "original music" beef if this was some sort of unimaginative repertory regurgitation, but that doesn't seem to be the case. In fact, the tone of complaints in this thread seem to come from the opposite direction.

As to the second point, probably not, but how can we say? As to the first, again, this is not an avant garde vs. mainstream thing. Josh Berman, Keefe Jackson, or Mike Reed are not working in strictly avant garde contexts. Neither is Sylvie Courvoisier, nor Tarbaby or Trio 3, nor Nicole Mitchell, Steve Lehman, Tony Malaby, Angelica Sanchez, Wadada Leo Smith, Dennis Gonzalez, Harris Eisenstadt ... It's a question of accurately representing the landscape of modern jazz. If you like the new Dave Douglas & Uri Cane record, there's nothing that would scare you away from anyone I listed above. There's no reason to ignore what's actually happening. Shrug. I still don't understand why you believe these guys are making "original music" in a way that Jason Moran is not. Seems like this boils down to "music I like" and "music I don't like".

Is avant garde jazz "original music" in a way that Jason Moran is not? We're talking about mature art forms here. Practically speaking, public perceptions of jazz as a "dead music" are not going to change regardless of what NPR plays.

Great! I have never heard PLAYING.

Love this list and the discussion it spurred. MG, I am a little surprised by the complete absence of any early Horace Silver. I realize that ultimately HS was more "hard bop" than "soul jazz", but I get the sense that tunes like "The Preacher" and "Doodlin' " helped guide the evolution of the style.

Great discussion. That version of "The Sunflower" is great; even the later stuff has outside playing - consider the version of "Drum Music" on LOST IN A DREAM (ECM, with Jason Moran and Chris Potter).

Definitely getting the Lyons. On the fence re Sun Ra and Chico. And with the Blackwell - is it worth getting if I already have the magnificent duet album with Dewey Redman (if you don't - get this box!!!!) and the two O&ND albums?

Yes! Some of the finest Monk was on Prestige; stronger batting average than on Riverside, IMHO.

Sorry, but I can't buy that even a little. There has never been a record executive in history that ran a multi-million dollar company that said "fuck money, I've got a legacy to build!" Alfred was no fool, and by the mid 60's it was pretty clear the direction Jazz had moved in. The Three Sounds comparison is trite at best. There were outliers, but AG was the main attraction. You might as well have refused to sign a Hair Metal band in the 80's while continuing to look for the next Jim Croce. Empirical evidence supports Jim here. In the pre-1967 era, if BN had wanted to simply sell more jazz records, then (assuming some sort of constraint on production resources), they would have released a lot more soul jazz and less avant-garde stuff. Avant-garde jazz (or inside/outside music) was perhaps the main attraction in terms of critical response (indeed, an interesting discussion would be the long-running critical discomfort with soul jazz), but not in terms of $$$$. There's a reason why Jimmy Smith, Grant Green, Stanley Turrentine, the Three Sounds made so many frickin records. No reason to pretend that AL/BN ever said "fuck money", but pretty clearly the more commercial stuff subsidized the more esoteric music.