Big Beat Steve

Well, "Chasin' The Bongo" (as listed on the OJC CD) does not sound very boogie-ish to me at all but like a(nother) mambo indeed. MG, what's your opinion? BTW, Jepsen's discography (which of course is not without errors but was a major, REALLY major accomplishment in its day IMO) lists this track of Prestige 897 as "Tea For Two", and actually the theme of "Chasin' .." does have some similarities ...

I'll need to check some sources to refresh my memory, but I want to say that Columbia (for one, at least) was still issuing 10" LP's in the U.S. in the latter 50's. Speaking of Columbia, here's one that I always thought was a bit odd. The Buck Clayton LP "How Hi The Fi" was issued as a 12" LP in 1954, and the 10" version of the LP came out later, in 1955. There may have been other cases of this backward scenario, but I'm not sure I know of any. Interesting ... I have both but of course automatically assumed that the 10-inch LP was the earlier pressing/release. So CL 567 predated CL6326? Did you get these release dates from the Goldmine Price Guide? Not that I would want to distrust them but yet ... I don't have any documents to actually pin down their release dates, but just one pointer (maybe): I have a record mail order catalog from Al Smith's House of Jazz (South Bend, IN) from around that time (the most recent Blue Note LP listed is BL 5020, if that helps ..), and in the Columbia section the CL 6000 series runs up to CL 6302 and the CL 500 series ends at CL 521. I have no idea how many LPs were released in each series within the same time span but this looks like the 10-inch series was closer to CL 6326 (24 items) than the 12-inch series was to CL 567 (46 items). No definite proof one way or another, of course ..,

Fine research! Hats off! N.B: Is it Chasin The Boogie or rather Chasin' The Bongo as listed in several (post-78rpm release) sources?.

VERY interesting thread. Thanks for your introductory post, MG, which will take time for me to digest fully and maybe get back to, though ... Some random thoughts and addenda: - As for 10-inchers not being "albums", I dunno ... Often it was a matter of making existing (and still saleable) recordings available in the new 33rpm format which was gaining momentum fast (hence the reissue of 78s early on on 10" LPs). I wonder, though, if what you refer to as "albums" really would be "concept albums" (à la Sgt. Pepper, Pet Sounds, etc.). I doubt that that much thought went into all of those "albums" that were used to release music for the FIRST time. And, BTW, I do wonder, how many record buyers of more recent times realize where the term "album" (as used generically for LPs) came from in the first place. - 10-inchers did exist in the U.S. beyond the West Coast Jazz labels and Blue Note and Prestige in the 50s. If you look at record listings such as in the Goldmine books you will see how many there were, even in jazz bordering on R&B. Not to forget all those budget labels. To me this also seems a matter of trying to grab a slice of the market of the new speed and in the case of R&B, C&W and Rn'R of the 50s this probably was only limited in numbers (as were 12" LPs) because the marketing execs figured (probably correctly) that their (younger or not so well-off) target audiences usually would only be able to afford purchases of singles or EPs at one time. - As for their general impact, MG, do not forget that 10-inchers lasted much longer in a number of other countries, e.g. the U.K. and France - and Germany too, to some extent) where ORIGINAL 10-inch releases were still current in the late 50s. - It is true what was said above about the "speed war" (particularly 33rpm 12in LPs vs 45rpm 3-EP sets ;)) but there also seems to have been a "size war". There have been LPs issued concurrently both in 10-inch and 12-inch format for diffferent target audiences and possibly countries (I am not talking about expanded 12" reissues of original 10" releases here). Apparently the drawback of having to omit part of the contents of the 12" LP on a 10" was offset by the advantage of having the music in the convenient (?) 10" size.

Well, MG, as far as I can see the track listing on the CD seems to be in the correct order (comparing the track sequence on the CD to the sequence of the track titles on the "cover"/inlay. Of course, if you want to really rip what you have in the order that it appeared on the 10-inch vinyl then there IS a problem (it took me a second or third reading of your earlier posts to grasp that ... ;)). The only explanation that I have is that there were two pressings, probably the first one incorrect and the second one correct. Or the music on the vinyl always was correct but was misidientifed on the cover (which tended to happen, it seems) and also on the label, maybe because someone mistook the session by Joe Holiday including Billy Taylor on one of the two sides for a leader date by Billy Taylor? The answer to this would have to come from someone who has a copy of LP 171. Or maybe there was a review of that LP in Down Beat or Metronome? No doubt they would have noticed an entire LP side that was identified incorrectly, particularly if the tracks had been around on 78 before? And if they did not mention this then this might indicate that that LP indeed had one side without Joe Holiday.

Interesting ... Joe Holiday ... I have been intrigued by his recordings for some time because they seemed to have been overlooked by the reissuers so very constantly throughout the vinyl era when almost every snippet of 50s Prestige was recycled in more than one form. In the past 7-8 years I finally managed to obtain both his "Holiday for Jazz" CD on Fresh Sound and his "Mamob Jazz" CD on Prestige/OJC. Now I am not quite sure if I understood all your questions correctly. On my copy of the OJC CD the final 7 tracks are listed as coming from the 171 10-inch LP, and as far as I can tell the tracks are in this order (and they all have a tenor sax - i.e. Joe Holiday): Sleep - Besame Mucho - I Don't Want To Walk With You - Fiesta- I Love You Much - Chasin' The Bongo - It Might As Well Be Spring The Japanese "Prestige Book" published in the "Jazz Critique" series in the 1990s ("Jazz Critique 1996 No 3") gives the following track listing and (presumably) track order for LP 171: Sleep - Besame Mucho - I Don't want To Walk Without You - I Love You Much - Chasin' The Bongo - It Might As Well Be Spring Assuming that they just omitted Fiesta by error this would confirm the indications in the liner notes of the OJC CD. However, the OJC CD had already been released by the time the Japanese book was published (they mention the CD reissue) so who knows if this is where they got their information and not from the original 10-incher? Although THAT would uncommonly sloppy for Japanese jazz fanatics.

By coincidence I have original pressings of the "In Concert" and "Introducing" LPs (in very decent condition - not much popping and crackling to listen through to ;)) and this thread spurred me to listen to them again last night. I agree with with Teasing's (hey, where's the TK of your moniker? ) comment on Monk being pleasantly un-electric-bass-ish, and above all I really cannot find that the comments that many jazz scribes made back then (about the Mastersounds just riding high on the wave of the MJQ's popularity and there not being much more to them) are true at all. There is a certain overall similarity, of course, but it doesn't go that far and they certainly aren't as "brain-heavy" as the MJQ often was, and Buddy Montgomery is very much his own man IMHO.

Indeed. My mothers (yes - mothers, my mother and my stepmother that my father married after my mother's death) both worked in the applied art/ advertising art business and both had got started in the very early 50s. I have often browsed (and from time to time still do) through the stack of what must have been the German equivalent of "graphis" from the early 50s to the early 60s that I took over from them, and this must have forever influenced my eye for artwork from that period and what I like in artwork, including Jim Flora, Alex Steinweiss and many more.

Bought two copies from 1951 and 1952 at a local fleamarket eons ago (mostly for the ads and some of the photographs, I admit). Looked like a sort of traveler's Saturday Evening Post to me (and somehow still do - I just pulled them out again).

So true ... Speaking of which ... talking about mens' magazines from that era, anybody remember TRUE - The Man's Magazine? I have a couple of their "Automobile Yearbooks" from the 50s (who knows what other annual specials they did) - nice selections of VERY "period-flavored" articles probably geared to those who considered themselves "discerning" car buyers or car lovers - features on classics and racing, Tom McCahill readalikes, Consumer Guide-like topics, and lots of name automotive authors.

The very same one? Or just an identical model?

All four Esquire Books of Jazz (1944 to 1947) are very nice to have and peruse today IMO if you do not take the moldy fig/bop schism too seriously. The 1947 yearbook had such a heavy bias in favor towards the Condonites that the series was abandoned (rightfully so by the criteria of the time) but if you just take the yearbooks as PART of what the history and legacy of jazz were all about then they all are fine. My understanding also is that Esquire was seriously into jazz for quite a while in the late 30s and the 40s (cf. the musician polls etc, like Medjuck mentioned) and no doubt played a similar role to what Playboy did later on in spreading the image of jazz among a certain spectrum of those who saw themselves as particularly hip (for better or worse). And they must have had some coverage because the 1944 Book of Jazz edition was also produced as a pocket-sized paperback edition for the G.I.s (so there must have been some out there who did not just listen to hillbilly or crooners, it seems ). As for how long the flirt of Esquire with jazz lasted, those in the US will know but at any rate Esquire did a nice book with various essays on jazz about 1960 - "Esquire's World of Jazz". Still an interesting read today.

It all depends on what kind of Spedding you want IMO. Back in the late 70s when (neo-)rockabilly Robert Gordon all of a sudden hit the charts and had some relatively successful albums, Chris Spedding worked a lot with him and there were quite a few bootleggish cassette dubs of Robert Gordon concerts around that feature quite amazing, straightforward, no-frills Chris Spedding playing. No idea if any of these have made it to more regular releases since.

Yes this comes as a surprise to us "outsiders" so soon after his retirement announcement. R.I.P. I wonder, though, if maybe he knew that his days were (very) numbered and chose to bow out in style this way by formally announcing his retirement the way he did.

Google still is your friend ... So it was THAT Teddy Powell (before his big band-leading days) ...

@MG: About the authors of "Spring Cleaning": On the reissue LP where I have that song it says "Samuels-Powell-Whitcup" (whoever those may have been).

There's a whole industry of "cultural ownership" that has variously vested interests in keeping this general repertoire in some version of the public eye. You'll be hearing them in movies, commercials, "projects", reading about them in books, etc. for as long as the profit incentive is working. It often has nothing to do with the song itself, much more to do with "cache", "culture", etc. Plant the seed, water the dirt, reap the harvest. Lather, rinse, repeat. As with most things, follow the money. Not that it ever was much of a standard even in its time, but I wonder to what extent this "keeping it in the public eye" played any role at all rather than this just being a gimmick by someone who stumbled across the tune when Fats Waller's 1937 recording "Spring Cleaning" recently made it into all the TV ads over here as the music for an ad for a manufacturer of cleaning equipment (for industry, garages and homes). But to anybody halfway in the know the artist was unmistakeable and I wonder what this will lead to.

"Time After Time" must have become some sort of standard beyond its original musical genre. It appeared in a rockabilly/rock'n'roll version (FIFTIES-style r'n'r - the real thing) in the UK close to 20 years ago.

Good idea.

In (not so) good company with a lot of "industry and business leaders" worldwide, unfortunately ...

Not that new, all this. Among halfway knowledgeable (and THINKING) people interested in cars it has been discussed quite openly that Common Rail technology and indirect injection are a VERY mixed "blessing" when it comes to really reducing health risks and engineering advances aren't always where you THINK they are. Those ever finer, ever tinier particles are still there and they will penetrate where the diesel smoke emitted by "daddy's diesel" did not pass. Like someone characterized it fittingly here when the "clean diesel" vs old diesel debate raged here several years ago, exaggerating only for illustration's' sake: "What those old diesels emitted were bricks of coal that would never pass the hairs and surfaces of your nostrils (which is why your handkerchief ended up black once you sneezed afterwards). But those minute particles (that won't even leave black traces) are there anyway and will go right through inside." But this problem is a general one and not limited to VW.

THIS I would not have doubted ...

It does (and it irks me in a way). And they cannot count on much compassion from me. They've had it coming to them, given the way they acted. But all those sideswipes from U.S. would-be jokers reek a lot like trying to regain lost ground now, though overall they are set to be on their way out, even if VW were to take a serious blow. The US automotive industry won't survive on Tesla alone when it comes to smart automotive concepts for tomorrow. SUVs are and remain the plague in traffic over here so credit for the original idea to whom credit is due. And who knows who else among those crying out loud for action now is actually just trying to find added power or leverage now to get that TTIP can of worms (that is facing increasingly stiff opposition in Europe, particularly in Germany) across.

Uh oh ... this might backfire. It would take only insignificantly more imagination and historical awareness to do EXACTLY the same fake ad with the FORD plum instead of the VW logo.

VW screwed this up big time and ought to clean up that mess FAST. And some MORE heads wil have to roll. But it makes me snicker seeing how - of all places - the US of A drool about all this and pull all sorts of stunts in rubbing it in against VW. Is what's left of the US automotive industry in that much of a horror vs. their competitors that they now see some last chance of regaining some ground? Nothing more to offer beyond bloated SUVs? OTOH, must hurt badly seeing the Chevrolet bowtie being attached to some laughable Korean baby shoe box. Badge engineering at its very worst and not even the most ergonomical way of designing a city runabout.