Big Beat Steve

Not asking for a sneak preview, Ken, but to what extent do the "Estrellas de Ritmo y Melodía" as well as Bernard Hilda and Luis Rovira figure in the index?

That would indeed be surprising. BTW, at a clearout sale at a local record store last fall a copy of BOTH releases (Jazz Guild and Nostalgia) were in the bins at 1 EUR each. I did not pick them up (already have the Jazz Guild LP, though paid much more at the time) as I figured (probably rightly, sorry to say) that demand would be so slim that there would not have been much sense adding them to my fleamarket jazz vinyl crate. IIRC I compared the liner notes and they were the same on both.

I seem to remember this article was linked and then discussed controversially here last year ... (?) EDIT: Found it now:

Graeme Bell was another one who was torn to shreds in the reviews (in this case by Nat Hentoff in a review of his LP on the Angel label in a 1955 Down Beat - one star ...). "Offered to us in small pieces" - you mean, that collection finds its way into the crates of "your" shop only slowly and in small lots? Happens here sometimes too. I recently picked two records from the Sale bins here that - judging by handwritten numbering stickers on the back covers - came from a collection that I had already bought records from about 10 years ago (and off and on in the intervening years) in the same shop.

BTW, Niko ...Thanks for the link to the VJM website. Quite interesting - bookmarked now ...

O.T., but ... You made me curious, Niko ... If I find that record for 1 EUR I might well pick it up too (the French BYG pressing should be around somewhere ...). 😄 Some of the musicians mentioned were no slouches in their time so I'm wondering .... I have a corner reserved for washboard/jug/hokum bands in the blues/R&B section of my vinyls but nothing by him. At first or second hearing, most of these bands are an acquired taste and you need to be in the right mood to appreciate them (and the limitations of 20s or early 30s recording technology did not always help either). But they did serve a market that most definitely was not that of "art jazz". https://www.discogs.com/de/artist/313185-Jimmy-OBryant?superFilter=Releases&subFilter=Compilations Not wanting to blame Dan Morgenstern unduly, but that review reeks of a deeper antipathy against what at one time was termed "hokum". Which is all very well but the review maybe should have been left to someone more sympathetic with the broader style within which fell that record, and then judge it from there for faults and flaws WITHIN the broader idiom and not from an antipathy per se. BTW, Morgenstern guessed wrong about Jimmy O'Bryant's biography (a much-recorded but indeed shady figure). Quote from John Chilton's "Who's Who of Jazz": "I am indebted to Walter C. Allen for supplying me with information culled from the Chicago Defender dated 30th June 1928. The paper reports that O'Bryant died in the County Hospital., Chicago." For a somewhat different perspective on him, see the comments by Allen Lowe (no less too ) from the liner book of his "Really The Blues?" CD anthology, Vol. 1 re- Lovie Austin's recording of "Steppin' on the Blues" feat. Tommy Ladnier and Jimmy O'Bryant (1924): "... clarinetist O'Bryant (was) something of a biographical mystery but a fierce advocate for just about anything he played. The blues was THE format for his primitive but passionately improvised squalls which gives these recordings an oddly nationalist (naturalist?) tint. This is the early jazz-blues, no longer content to just shuffle along." See what I mean?

Thanks for your feedback on "At the Vanguard of Vinyl - A Cultural History of the Long-Playing Record in Jazz". After having read more attentively the contents of my home-made 1955 Down Beat Record Reviews (see above ) I've noticed that the reviewers (mostly Nat Hentoff) during that pivotal year of 1955 (when the move from 10" to 12" occurred) often complained that not all that few artists just weren't ready yet to sustain a 12"-length of recordings of ongoing INTEREST. And often the insight (on the part of the artists and/or producers/labels) to limit things to a 10" LP for the time being was considered desirable. I wonder if the book reflects on such details of the "reception" of vinyl in the marketplace. And this would be just ONE aspect of many ... BTW, what kind of "jargon" do you think might be considered offputting?

A shot in the dark ... but as for websites to start with, how about checking out the websites linked on this site? http://www.harlem-fuss.com/links.html I haven't checked all of them (not nearly) but those I have seen of course aren't dedicated exclusively to classic or oldtime jazz but many give fair coverage of artists from that period. E.g. jazzArcheology.com or www.thereisjazzbeforetrane.blogspot.com (I think our forumist EKE BBB is behind this - and the name of this blog is an oh so true statement in itself that needs to be driven home to many, many present-day jazz listeners for sure - not on this forum but very much so in general out there ...)

As for "past 1939", you mean more or less recent TEXT sources that deal with the REVIVAL jazz era of what stylistically is termed "oldtime jazz" or "classic jazz"? I.e. in the case of the USA, covering the 40s and 50s in particular, and whatever classic jazz revival remained later (Bob Wilber, e.g.)? And I gues many would want to distinguish between the old heroes carrying on for as long as they lived (Edmond Hall, De Paris brothers etc., Eddie Condon too) and the next generation (Turk Murphy, Bob Scobey, Pete Fountain and whoever else). And not to be mixed up with the entire (European) "Trad jazz" scene that we had discussed in an earlier thread. There ARE sources on the Revival side of jazz after 1940-45, but they are scattered and hard to summarize in an efficient way. I am not familiar with too many books or sites on that subject but whatever I thought of right now raises more questions than it has answers on "what else" there also should be.

My thoughts exactly at first about having mistaken that box set for a book. BUT - the contents of the CDs figure PROMINENTLY on the BACK of the (outer) case. So hard to miss ... As for that LP with the 1 1/2* review in DB in 1969 that you linked (Jimmy O'Bryant's Washboard Wonders on Biograph), the reviewer may have had a reason indeed. But was this a valid one over time? Not that I would claim these bands produced superior art, and I'd never pay full price for this one either (though in a similar vein I've got one or two Washboard Rhythm Kings LPs on my search list right now). But tastes differ and one man's meat is another man's poison, and isn't it strange that subsequent reissue labels built a lot of their catalog on this kind of early recordings, leaving no reissue stone unturned (notably Document and RST)? Which is bound to bring some dross to the surface too. These labels cater(ed) to a niche clientele - but one that exists (or existed) and that the reviewer either didn't get (nor the music itself) or, what is more likely IMO, such recordings just were not in the spirit of the time and place that the review appeared. Across all styles of jazz it sometimes is amazing how assessments of recordings differ either between different reviewers in different mags or between the time the record was new (when it was reviewed in DB, for instance) and when it was reissued much later (with a review in the All Music Guide, for instance). Re-Bechet and not getting him, I hear you ... I must admit Sidney Bechet is one of those who I usually take in moderate doses. I really depends on my mood; there are days when I just find his tone too strident and piercing after a while. But with this particular box fidelity really is so excellent that, at least if taken in smaller instalments, you cannot help feeling that Becher really ROCKS at these concerts! Likely more so than as per the title of this LP released in the mid-60s ... https://www.discogs.com/de/master/1500303-Sidney-Bechet-Rocking/image/SW1hZ2U6MzE0Mzg1NDE= ... where Fontana blatantly tried to cash in on the "Rocking" tag (there were other jazz reissues in that "Rocking!" series at the time IIRC). I bought this one mostly for that cover real cheap a couple of years ago - it is fun to listen to (reissues from 1947-49) but not essential. And when I bow out one day, records like this might as well go without netting my heirs anything to speak of too.

Are you pulling anyone's leg, maybe?

Don't have the set but about 80% of the Jimmy Rushing Vanguard material on vinyl and have been familiar with it for quite a few years from and after numerous listens, and agree with those who find it consistent, constantly enjoyable and "in keeping" with what Rushing did and liked to do (and did well). Some is bluesier, some is jazzier, but it "always is Jimmy Rushing above all". It's just so that Jimmy Rushing did both, and did it well (and something a bit more maintreamish here and there on Columbia later on but that's just another nuance of the same story IMO). BTW, I find this ... "...it sounded sort of like Basie with the rhythm dumbed down to something more elemental. Which felt like a loss to me.".... isn't the right approach to that sort of music. It was never a matter of "dumbing down" but rather of trimming it down to the core, the essentials, the basics that were supposed to come to the fore for the occasion. Nothing wrong or lacking there, but - as said by others - just an example of the continuum between "canonized" jazz and R&B (or R&B-ish jazz or jazzish R&B). (Overtones of other discussions/statements here on this forum? Yes, probably .... )

Thanks, both. Yes I realize I was lucky. Usually the shop people know their stuff. But (like many shops) they tend to price modern jazz (mostly hard bop and post-hard bop styles) higher because this is where business is higher in their jazz section. So older styles of jazz often are "priced to sell". (Which suits me fine. ) In this case they may also have been overwhelmed by that collection of classic jazz/trad/dixieland that they evidently have gotten in very recently (this box looks like it was part of it). Sadly, it also is a sign of how little these styles of jazz will fetch when owners or heirs unload records in bulk at a shop. I haven't had much time listening to the CDs but have sampled CD2 (including the interview which I find a "charming" period piece). And the book is great - just one regret: reading the text is a strain on the eyes after a while (and I'm usually not one to complain about readability). Printing the text in light brown or light grey on white paper wasn't such a smart idea. Particularly since the English text appears even more faded than the French one (not that I would mind reading French, but still ...)

Found a mint copy of this box set locally today (not in the jazz records section but on the "music books" shelves) - for the princely sum of 10 EUR! The book alone is a magnum opus of love. 👍 Definitely one for the "Great Finds" topic ... (if it were on vinyl = (And I am glad that I did not take the plunge back then - for monetary reasons ... )

I'd say it was more a matter of one occasional hobby (making my own book repros) serving another, larger hobby (collectible music - jazz in this case - on record and in print).

Keeping fingers crossed for a complication-free recovery ... 👍

Oy vey ... I bought me the hardcover book after it came out in late 2021 "for future reading" as and when I felt like it with enough spare time to make serious progress through the book without too many interruptions. For various reasons I haven't even started seriously on it yet. I am a fairly fast reader but I didn't imagine it might take this long once I'd get started ...

I only got around to buying Vol. 1 and 2 of the Conteporary LPs of the "Lost Sessions" Dream Band sessions back in the 90s (during a stay in London - had never seen the LPs anywhere else before). But as they were quite pricey I skipped buying subsequent volumes that were in the "Gibbs" bin at Mole Jazz. A mistake, at least for Vol. 3. Terry Gibbs explains some background on how these records came about in his "Good Vibes" autobiography (recommended reading!). Here is an excerpt and this should answer the questions of Kevin Bresnahan): According to this, Vols. 4 and 5 of the Dream Band recordings are actually reissues of commercially issued records on Verve and Mercury (Discogs confirms this). I'm tempted to get Vol. 7 now, but at least 22 EUR for one CD? Wait and see ...

OK, I understnad now. This sounds indeed like some major aspects remain shrouded in mystery.

Its impressive how you round up even the smallest snippets of information to form a more than complete picture. I may have missed something along the way but beyond the website, did you ever consider doing a book on him?

Listened to a reissue of this and more (2-LP set) last weekend. Nice, and apparently a key document of Russell's career (his first recorded document after his recovery).

I did get you right. Kudos sincerely appreciated.

Yes, I agree this project must seem crazy to many. 😄 Though in some ways it is just an extension of certain follies of my younger days (long before the advent of the internet and pdf files) when I created my personal facsimile (photocopy) “reprints” of long-OOP books and magazines to be able to add these documents in tangible form to my archives for permanent reference. Another look at the final product: The spine was created by adapting a .jpg scan of the cover of the 1957 Jazz Reviews edition. Would I do it again? For the 1954 year, maybe? Not likely, though I have originals of 16 of the 26 1954 Down Beats. But with the mag still being newspaper-size at that time, the scans (of the missing issues) sized down further in the files on the Worldradiohistory site are even harder to extract in sufficiently high quality so this really is too much. The screenshots of the scans of those early 1955 newspaper-size issues I had to manage with were enough of a hassle. OTOH, if one day I were able to obtain good-quality photocopies or 1st generation scans of the review pages of the missing issues I might rethink it … 😉 And if I were able to borrow the 1961, 1962 and 1963 editions of the Jazz Record Reviews yearbooks from somewhere around here I’d certainly fire up my photocopier again and create my own facsimile paperbacks from cover to cover. 😉 In the end it’s the information that counts (particularly at the current asking prices of originals) …

Actually I did not find the book that “problematic”. The aim of the book of highlighting that there is a continuum between the Jump Blues combos within the larger field of R&B of the early post-war years (and the somewhat later R&B small groups that evolved from them through the 50s) and the canonized categories of what “acceptable jazz” is and of showing that popularity with the primary target audience is not necessarily a sign of “dumbing down” or “selling out” but of being in tune with the audience, regardless of what certain narrow-minded scribes would have led everyone to believe from their “high art” ivory tower vantage point, is something I fully agree with. To me this appears very much like what “In with The In Crowd” set out tp highlight for jazz of the 60s. What I found to criticize really was above all a case of regretting the errors, slipups and mixups in the book. Particularly since I still think many of them would have been relatively easy to avoid through appropriate research. Unfortunately, I feel these weaknesses do the impact of the author’s arguments a disservice.

I had another one from that series (the blue one) but eventually found it less useful (or satisfactory) because it turned out that it included only ONE half of a total of 4 different WCJ LPs from the 50s (including Herb Geller's "Fire in The West"). So as soon as I had rounded up all 4 complete LPs that one went into my fleamarket crate and I was glad when I managed to sell it off. The usual problem is that if you are either in a shop far away from home or if you do not want to incur the risk of letting the record slip away "from under your nose" until the enxt time you can stop by that shop you take the plunge and buy it. And sometimes you just lose that way and end up with duplicates ... In most cases we all know what we already have and what we don't, but if you have a huge collection it's just not feasible to remember EVERYTHING, particularly if you have not catalogued your collection in any form (let alone one you can carry along to the shop), and even such listings would not be of much use with reissues because with totally different covers, catalog numbers, labels etc. but identical contents you cannot possibly indicate in your listings "identical to .... " in each and every case. So unless you know for sure, for example, a given artist had only that one LP's worth of music released on a particular label (and you know you have that LP's worth already) ou still might make that mistake. But such is the obsessed collector's life ...