Big Beat Steve

I wasn't so much thinking of musicians considering free or avantgarde music to be on a higher artistic level (no doubt many of the U.S. ones, in particular, acknowledge what went on before them style-wise) but of many (period and more recent) debates in magazines, radio, among fans, critics, etc. Claims that anything "free" or "avantgarde" was THE ultimate in artistic elevation and advancement in jazz were rampant over here in many (mediatic) circles from the 70s onwards. And once you have been exposed to that to a certain degree that just lingers on ... As for the "initial argument", it was made by Gheorghe, not by me. And if I understood him correctly then "free" players who do not konw their basics in "non-free" jam session contexts just have no point being in those jam sessions. Because for what THAT jam session was all about they just did not have the chops. Which I fully understand and agree with. And I also understand that there are jam sessions where there are strict limits to the kind of "crossover" (or similar) the ones who decided to jam are willing to digest. Which I do not find inappropriate either. To each his own (playing field ).

You know the strange thing is that after buying these two sets I gave them quite a lot of spins at two different intervals over a maybe 2-year period, and everything weas fine. And then, a couple of weeks ago, when I pulled them out again and spun them fairly often over a period of several weeks the one I mentioned started to play up (though not first time after playing it again). I will give these sets the benefit of doubt because the CD player I use right now is not a very recent one (though the other one where they play OK is even older and not necessarily a higher-end one) so something may be amiss. I am keeping my fingers crossed things will not get worse but I also wish they had used real CDs.

I dont' think that not being able to read sheet music is a criterion. Many jazzmen from more "traditional" styles of jazz (a strange term to use for hard bop or post-bop, for example) have never been able to do that either. BUT - as you probably are aware yourself - the comparisons you allude to only exist because there are SO MANY out there in this never-ending debate of the place of free jazz within jazz who INSIST that playing free or free players are on a HIGHER artistic level than all those who are not (and have never been) part of that free (or avantgarde or whatever ...) movement. Which is an argument that would only hold water if they were indeed able to do everything those who came before them in the "non-free" world (which would be on a "lower" artistic level according to their "reasoning") have done and they have exhausted ALL of that and would then go above and beyond that. But if they are not able to do that then what they do in the "free" or "avantgarde" world may well have its merits but it most certainly is not on a "higher" artistic level. In fact they have not gone higher but sideways in the evolution or development of the music and have just branched out in a different direction. Which is fine if this is what they prefer to do. There are many differnt branches in the evolution of any broader style of music. But they really should not - never ever - claim they are on a "higher" artistic level. Or else their lack of "chops" in the mastery of their instruments, technique, ability to swing outright, knowledge of all the changes, etc., would be very easy to hold against them by the musicians from the non-free realms of jazz who DO have these chops. Just my 2c but I stand by them.

I am not surprised. A couple of years ago I bought Soho Scene 61 (RANDB042) and Soho Scene 62 (RANDB035) and on looking closer at the back of the CDs they turned out to be CD-Rs too (at first I had not noticed). Lately disc 2 of the 61 volume has developed distortions on the final few tracks (similar to collapsing home-burnt CD-Rs) on one CD player though not on another one I tried it on. So it looks like the CD-R is not on its way out yet after all but something seems to be sub-optimal somewhere.

Considering what he has done and written (according to the WWW) it is amazing that these stylistic lapses should have happened to him. Careless writing, sloppy editing/proofreading or a case of being stuck in a writer's "can do no wrong" bubble, I wonder? Re- Mingus' financial matters, I think the word you are looking for is "accountant". Some of these financial aspects may be important in an artist's bio (cf. Woody Herman's later days, and probably Bobby Hackett too). As for Mingus, i don't know. But some people (writers included, possibly?) may attach more importance to financial matters than others ... In the case of Santoro, maybe his own background (as found on the internet) goes toward explaining it? "Growing up in a two-room basement apartment in Brooklyn, Gene Santoro didn't know people like him could become writers--never mind make a living at it ..."

I have not read that book. But the examples that you gave should not have happened in that way (because I guess you certainly did not expressly search for such details - so they must have been fairly blatant if you stumbled across them anyway). And judging by what I have read and seen elsewhere in books I had expected to be better or more fluent I can imagine the impression these things make. That's what I based my comments on.

Weak ... considering there are sites that claim he is an "acclaimed music critic". And a "Fulbright scholar" too. Strange ... His "Highway 61" book (that I just discovered trying to find out what his actual credentials are) has an interesting topic but I guess Id rather read it done by Allen Lowe, then.

Was the average cover thickness of the UK Capitol stereo pressing significantly larger than that of the contemporary mono releases? I've always found the "Clarifoil" lamination of those UK pressings a real nuisance as they tended to peel and flake badly, starting around the edges and extending inwards more or less rapidly, and the cover edges usually are frayed too as the covers were thinner than the US ones. (I guess it must be hard for a collector to find copies with pristine lamination) OTOH, ring wear was not that much of a problem (whereas with many US 50s cardboard covers (Capitol and others), one look at the cover was almost sufficient to start ring wear (with color rubbing off faster than you were able to look).

In fact I had not seen Mjzee's comments re-Prestige and the alternates when I wrote my reply to Larry Kart yesterday. Interesting to learn about where these alternates went ... But were the Progressive reissues actually withdrawn? Anyway ... good to see it would pay to look for a Prestige pressing too. And amazing to see that someone at that time cared enough about that niche music to sue about an "infringement".

Thanks for your explanation. I understand your point about "Knight Music". As for the playing times of the tunes, I did not re-check closer now but the differences look more or less like the differences between the Prestige pressings (according to the information on Discogs) and my Progressive LP (though the times indicated on your CD set do not match the vinyls totally exactly). So maybe Prestige had one set of takes and Progressive another one? The liner notes of the Progressive LP do not hint at any alternates, though.

Wondering ... "more assertive than he would be in a while"? More assertive than he was earlier on (FWIW, I love his Prestige twofer which WAS earlier) or more assertive than he was later? (when exactly?) Have some of these tracks been tampered with or are there different takes in circulation on the various existing reissues? My version of this on (U.S.) Progressive PRO-7001 has track timing that sometimes varies widely from the Prestige LPs, for example.

An interesting approach. I think I wil have to do some Kenton relistening next time I browse the "noir" subject.

How many "Hen Gates" were there actually? I know of 2 who were documented. Maybe there were more ...

See yesterday's exchange with Niko.

True and reasonable in today's publishing world. But do they really grasp the feel and essence of the specific style of music and its enviromnent, then? Particularly if you have to go back a bit further in history. Some are good at it (and sympathetic), some (much) less so ... IMO there are too many music books out there that reek of the author's "Hey I can write about THAT musician /THAT style of music too!" attitude to further his own cause.

OK, good for the author, shame on the reviewer. The excerpt seems a bit more "tangible" though I wonder how many listeners there ever were at a concert like that who felt they were in a "conformist lockstep" that needed to be "broken". Anyway, without wanting to advocate simplistic writing that doesn't do the subject matter justice, I think I've had enough reads where I had to wade through the show-offiness of the author whose main messages seemed to be "see how many oddball words I know and can use instead of straightforward ones that get the message across too easily" and "don't expect me to write a book for just music lovers - my sole target audience is my academic peers - and then on up from there ..."

+1 Pity considering the subject matter ... BTW, to the author: if you HAVE to quote French (for effect's sake), make dead sure you are quoting it correctly. It is "quoi", not "quois". Talk about going out on a limb ...

This is what could be translated as a wholesale purchasing cooperative (for retailers, evidently).

Mike, you did well to buy the English edition. I would have done just like you. I see the German translation of the book (translated directly from the Braziliam-Portuguese edition, it seems) is from the HANNIBAL Verlag. I own several of their German-language translations of musician biographies (Kenny Clarke, Woody Herman, Dexter Gordon as well as Sally Placksin's "Women in Jazz") that were for sale very cheaply at Zweitausendeins years ago. They all are OK but overall rather stiff and stilted and just not quite "in tune" with what you would expect from a bio on music matters such as this. Music history books like these are a bitch to translate if you want to fully reproduce the feel and atmosphere (German may not be the very best language for this anyway) but overall the ones from Hannibal (at least those I've read) are more mediocre than some (rare) others that are better that I have read.

Seems like you in the Netherlands are catching up indeed. Over here vaccination rates have accelerated too and are progressing better now (at last) but overall the entire organization on the national, regional and local level for the most part still is ONE HUGE MESS!

That game can continue elsewhere among the VERY famous now-deceased if you insist. Check out this post by Chris Albertson of 15 Dec. 2004 here: (well, I think you probably remember it anyway)

Had my second (Biontech) shot yesterday (about 27 hours ago now) and so far I am doing alright. A bit of a pain in the arm where the needle stuck and very slight headache this moring (like it can and does happen every now and then at other times too). But I'm taking it easy anyway. Hoping for the best and for ongoing responsibility exercised by the OTHERS out there too (though not overly optimistic, alas ...).

Wow! I appreciate your efforts, James. No doubt I already have a fair bit of the studio recordings that he participated in but I'll get this anyway "for the rest".

The album has several tracks with a Bossa feel. I guess "Internatonal jet set album" might not be the worst description of that album, actually. Somehow a lot of the tunes remind me of 60s film music scores and some of these tracks might have provided a background for movies like "L'homme de RIo" (The Man from RIo", 1964) feat. Jean-Paul Belmondo.

I have very little of actual Bossa Nova or Bossa-ish recordings from that era but here is an album I tend to play as well for its touch of Bossa Nova here and there when I am in the mood to spin the Bossa-ish tracks from Oscar Peterson's "We Get Requests" album. BTW, the Sacha Distel album is from way past the year of 1963 that you praise (1968, in fact). TTK, you're famliar with that one?