Big Beat Steve

Like jazzbo said (and like I mentioned in my first post in this thread)... A budget P.D. release (sneered upon by some, I know ...) but a good introductory package. https://www.discogs.com/de/release/13726466-Jimmy-Smith-Jimmy-Smith-Vol3-Seven-Classic-Albums

Merry Christmas and a safe and healthy (and better) New Year to everyone. And if life "out there" should be too confining while the virus is still rampant, then stay covered with your record collection and use the time to explore it again ...

That "price group" pricing policy of the 70s was a thing to itself, I guess. I dimly remember it from student visits to London in 1975, 76 and 77 but most often saw it everywhere in France up to the 90s. However, in my experience this usually only applied to those stores that stuck fairly close to the "recommended retail list prices". Luckily over here the shops usually sold at somewhat lower prices than that. Items recommended at 12.80 DM sold at 9.90 DM, recommended prices of 14,80 DM meant an actual price of 11.90 DM, and hardly anyone sold at the very frequently recommended price of 22 DM (which was more like 16.90 or 17.90 DM in the shops). Those shops that priced LPs at 22 DM apparently did so because they also carried more imports than others - and so the imports at 22 DM did not look all that expensive, and the domestically pressed LPs they managed to sell at 22 DM anyway offset the slimmer margins of their imports. There was one long-established shop here that often carried specialist import items and did practice that pricing policy which of course looked outrageously expensive to us students but it had a clientele of older and probably more affluent buyers who would harldy ever buy their records anywhere else ... Despite its nondescript covers that MCA series filled a gap - to those jazz fans who did not find them too obscure (as you point out). I only was able to afford a scant few as a student when they were new but after I had learnt to appreciate the artists better I picked up many more secondhand in later years (and have all except 2 or 3). They made 50s jazz accessible again that you did not see on the European reissue market for many years afterwards. As for the Savoys, I realize those twofers, in particular, appeared from 1976 or so but I in turn did not really notice them in the shops in wider selections and larger quantities until the early 80s, but on the other hand they remained in print and in the racks for an uncommonly long period through the 80s.

This kind of delayed availability with import items is quite possible. At any rate, that series of Coral/Decca 50s modern jazz must have been off the trodden paths of the usual reissue fare at the time. It cannot have sold in huge quantitites and certainly was subsidized by better sellers (even from within the MCA Coral jazz stable that reissued tons of Louis Armstrong here in the 70s, for example). I wonder why and how it came about at all. I once discussed details of the MCA reissues with the collator of many of those 70s series (who later ran a CD reissue and mail-order shop mostly for pre-1945 European swing and dance bands until his final retirement a couple of years ago). Unfortunately I never thought of asking him about the "Jazz Lab" series. We only talked about various of his swing reissues which also seem to have been subject to in-house programming criteria that you can hardly imagine today. E.g. I asked him why the tracks included were a bit on the skimpy side on one LP or series (resulting in incomplete inclusion of some sessions) but more liberal on another that did not come with any more lavish artwork or presentation. As he explained, the in-house policy was that up to a certain number of tracks per LP (12 or 14 at most but regardless of playing time per track) the final product fell into a different royalty and pricing category (than an LP with 16 or 18 tracks), and this seems to have played a big role in what was put out by the company and which artist(s) were to be marketed in which price category by the shops at all. And exceptions from those rules seemed to be fairly impossible. So there you have LPs where you figure 4 more tracks would very easily have fitted on the LP - but no ... This would have increased the list price of the new item too much (for it to be viable to the company, I guess).

I for one tend to choose to play it for its contents - not because it's Jimmy Smith. The only snag being that its contents are spread over 2 CDs on that multi-CD box set and sandwiched between "Back At The Chicken Shack" and "Bashin'".

This is the "Jazz Lab" series I was referring to: https://www.discogs.com/de/label/635161-Jazz-Lab As Discogs confirms, it was in fact released in the 70s. All of the volumes figured in the 1975/76 edition (current as of July 1975) of the "Bielefelder Jazz Katalog" of jazz records in print at that time (though the catalog never was 100% complete as with each edition there invariably was this or that record company that could not be bothered to supply the publishers with details of the items they carried).

In the 90s I was very pleased to get the "Clicking with Clax" LP as it was right up my alley, and I also picked up the other "Martians" LPs later on (which included at least one LP's worth of previously unreleased music). I wonder ... did I do wrong when I did NOT pick up another copy of "Clicking with Clax" (to pass it on) when it popped up cheaply at a clearout sale at our local #1 used record store not too long ago? Or is it highly common? At any rate I was surprised to see it in there - it was another of those items you wished to have been able to get via a clearout instead of at full price. As for the MCA twofers you mention, yes there were several of these, but these were not the MCA reissues I referred to. Most of those MCA twofers (which in fact ran under the "Leonard Feather" series title) we got in the shops here were U.S. imports (except for the Nat Cole twofer which was a German pressing the others I have are U.S. pressings - and yes, they included one "Jazztime USA" double LP). The "Jazztime USA" twofer actually takes tracks from the original 50s LPs of concert recordings under that title (there were three 12" "Jazztime USA" LPs on US Brunswick and UK Coral, and they were widely distributed - 50s 10" releases on German Coral aren't impossible to find). About three quarters of the contents of the "Jazztime USA" twofer overlapped with the original LPs but some tracks had not appeared on those original LPs, so the twofer was worth having anyway. And in fact the 70s "Jazz Lab" reissue series on German MCA Coral included one Jazztime USA LP too - with the exact contents of the original Vol. 2. Which brings things full circle ...

Reading Gheorghe's and Sidewinder's recollections, I more than ever feel I must have been one of the "odd men out" among jazz listeners and record buyers in central Western Europe in those late 70s. Once I had found my way into bebop, I did snap up whatever I could afford with my limited funds of a budding University student (after a careful tradeoff of what buy offered best value for money) in 50s modern jazz (including West Coast Jazz). WCJ reissues did not really come around here until the 80s, but I picked up Shorty Rogers' "West Coast Jazz" LP in the 70s when it was reisseud by WEA in their (silver-cover) "Thats Jazz" series and gave it lots of spins. This must have been one of my entry cards into WCJ. "Clicking with Clax", however, never seems to have been imported here and did not come to my attention until the 90s in a secondhand bin at Mole Jazz. As for cross-subsidizing of reissues by the majors, there must have been a lot of cases. Bellaphon made huge amounts of jazz on Prestige available, and given their base in lots of fields of popular music I suppose their modern jazz reissue program was subsidized across the board. Milestone twofers also were available by the later 70s. In most cases we got U.S.imports of these and not nearer reprints (in France they were pressed locally with the same contents and cover artwork but different "small print"). I also remember there were reissue programs that made items available that really were off the beaten tracks of the commonplace modern jazz reissues. One example was the "Jazz Lab" series on German MCA that reissued a lot of 50s East-coastish modern jazz from the Decca/Coral stable that in many cases had to wait for another non-Japanese reissue until Fresh Sound came around later on. No doubt this (and also the tons of swing-era jazz that MCA reissued) also was cross-subsidized with the money that MCA made elsewhere. According to jazz record catalogs from that era, a lot of Blue Note and Impulse must also have been in print as locally pressed or imported items. I was mostly into pre-hard bop modern jazz then but even so I really cannot recall having seen and regretfully put them back in the racks often (except for some of these "brown paper bag" Blue Note twofers, some of which I found tempting but could not afford until years later). So it probably also was a case of distribution that was scantier for these labels than for, say, the Prestige reissues on Bellaphon or the "Milestone twofers".

Getting ready for preparing Xmas evening background music and believe it or not - in addition to a few swing and R&B Yuletide compilations and the Cool Yule CD by the Hot Club of San Francisco this year the "Kenton Christmas" album will figure high on the list. IMO it works surprisingly well yet I hope I won't frighten my spouse and son out of the room!

Late to the game but ... I have the album "Plays Fats Waller" on the "Jimmy Smith Seven Classic Albums Vol. 3" 4-CD box set on Real Gone Jazz (yes! ) and this thread has prompted me to pull out the set again for a spin to revive my memory. Certainly atypical and not the most exciting or memorable JS but far from down in the "Music to Brush Your Teeth By" league either. For me it's nice enough as stimulating accompaniment music for my office work (certain kinds of it), like some Shirley Scott albums or others. So like Dub Modal or Danasgoodstuff said - it makes for a change and serves a purpose if you take it for what it is and do not insist on rabble-rousing JS all the way.

Seeing how this thread evolved, I see that beyond "standing" in line, posing, walking and loitering in line is OK too. So here goes ...

Similar to Mike, I have (had) access to several of them through the local library. And I do admit that at the time (in the course of the 90s) I did let the photocopier I had access to run hot so I would not have to return to the library each time. So I got what I need of the Savoy, Verve and Chess discographies (which means e.g. that in the case of the Savoy I skipped most of the Gospel section).

Not to forget that he was active in the session producing and A&R (of sorts) field for a time too. Browsing through period jazz documents, I was amazed at how (relatively) often the name of Cannonball Adderley came up in the context of getting this or that recording session off the ground. So clearly he could connect in more ways than one and was respected on several levels. Are there very many truly greats among the jazz musicians who can claim this kind of accomplishments on BOTH sides of the mike?

Breezy, lively and more than just entertaining (beyond all the information it provides, of course). "El Foggo" -- ha! Hilarious!

Interesting topic (that I so far had missed). Reissue cover botchings of original-release cover artworks must have been numerous through the 60s, 70s and possibly 80s. I am not quite sure, though, where to draw the line between REAL budget labels and just mid-price (or at least well-distributed and therefore omnipresent) reissue labels compared to the original labels or FACSIMILE reissues. A case in point that has bugged me many times: Many of the 80s AFFINITY jazz reissues of 50s/60s jazz LPs (many of which that originally appeared on Bethlehem). Strangely enough they often did reuse the original artwork for their reissues of Capitol LPs. Makes you wonder why ... Another case: No idea if Stan Kenton's "Creative World" label was a "budget" label but at least he did secure the rights to reissue his old Capitol LPs with the original contents and titles. I have many of them but their rather generic and out-of-style covers of course are a letdown compared to the originals. But then this one ... ... is about as bad as it could possibly get. Quite a turnoff compared to the original one. OTOH, MANY reissues by the ORIGINAL labels (particularly in the 70s) were just as inept, careless, unimaginative or just plain cheap. And they have no valid excuse, contrary to the budget labels.

I'll second the recommendation of PJC for shopping for jazz records. Another one that I liked is CROCOJAZZ, 64 Rue de la Montagne Sainte Geneviève (5th arrondissement). It's much smaller than PJC but has interesting selections that might just be up your alley. And the owner is very friendly, helpful and always willing to talk shop with collectors. I checked the internet and recent entries indicate the shop is still in existence. And it's listed here, for example: https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g187147-d6684563-Reviews-Crocojazz-Paris_Ile_de_France.html https://recordstores.love/4264 But as you never know if all these sites are kept up to date all the time I won't guarantee anything (it's been more than 10 years since I've been able to check on site in Paris myself). But if you walk the streets around Crocojazz then do keep your eyes open for other shops. I remember two other record shops with sizable jazz sections in the neighborhood (within easy walking distance up and down the streets) in that area but do not recall their names (one is/was in a sort of basement).

Same here. @Peter Friedman: Robert Gordon's book must have been a dead heat with "West Coast Jazz" by Alain Tercinet (published by Parentheses, Paris - in the spring of 1986). Of course it is in French but it WAS (is) out there (and it isn't bad at all). I bought the book by Tercinet several years before I simultaneously got hold of the books by Gordon and Gioia so my approach was somewhat different. With the benefit of the "first impressions" covering uncharted teritory, Tercinet's book had a starting advantage with me. Overall I feel the three books complement each other very well. Gordon seems to dwell more on reviewing and analyzing key recordings by the key artists, Gioia provides more additional biographical background, and Tercinet covers (at least to SOME extent) a wider range of artists. He seems to have profited enormously from the accessibility of the WCJ vinyl reissues by Fresh Sound and digs deeply into relatively unknown "connoisseur" artists (off the beaten tracks left by the biggest names) who hardly made it into the books by Gioia and Gordon and places them into context. Overall I like Gioia's book best but to me it is a very close finish between the three.

Concurrence too. As it happens, I am currently re-reading this book. And find it as fascinating as before.

I have no horse in this race (of whether to discuss this at all), but trying to focus the posts I've read here, I think what it boils down to is that if you are sure "there's a wave coming up the beach", then name what the wave is made up of, what beach it is coming from, and where you concretely saw that particular wave. If you cannot or won't provide the hard evidence of the wave then I am afraid the others have a huge point. Speculative insinuations are not the way to go. They might backfire.

There was quite a bit of free jazz going on in the GDR (as elsewhere in the Eastern bloc countries) in the 70s. Check out Ulrich Gumpert, Günter Sommer, Ernst-Ludwig Petrowsky, for example. But I would find it hard listening to that as "Muzak" ...

You summed it up well, and I am surprised that this point needed to be made at all. It's that evident ... As a starter, a brief period (early 60s) look at the jazz market might be found in the "The Jazz Business" and "The Public" chapters in "The Jazz Scene" by Francis Newton. And since you mention record shops, have you seen or read "Going for a Song - A Chronicle of the UK Record Shop" by Garth Cartwright? It essentially covers record shops from the early post-war years to the general demise of record shops. Of course it mostly focuses on all sorts of rock but there are chapters on Dobell's and his contemporaries as well as on record shops important to 70s jazz, funk etc.

No point trying playing the full length of "Invitation". It's the second to last track on side 2 but the crack separates into 2 cracks towards the dead wax and on the final two tracks you'd get two clicks and major stumbling blocks for your stylus. According to the below source there do not seem any other EPs from that LP (Bruyninckx does not list any EP releases). https://jazzdiscogcorner.pagesperso-orange.fr/discographies_%20labels/c/capitol/instrumentals/m/marshall_jack/discography/capitol_jackmarshall_1958.htm

No everlasting work of high art in fiction but it will trigger your imagination ... and jazz buffs who know their music's history will find the portrayal of Bunk Johnson rather amusing ...

Complementary to "Tiger Rag" by Nicholas Christopher? Not a mystery/detective story but a very interesting plot that shows just what MIGHT have happened to the Buddy Bolden cylinder. And as we'll never know for sure ...

You bring up BAD memories .... About 15 years ago i bought this on eBay when I was rather on the lookout for jazz obscurities and oddities from the 50s. But when it arrived it was cracked ... a bad crack that extends tangentially to the dead wax for about 2 thirds of the record! Clearly a real dimwittest of dimwitty sellers was at work when he packaged the record "as flimsy as could be". With a lot of care I was able to coax the record back into near-enough shape and alignment to be able to listen to side 2 (not with the newest of styluses of course) with only a revolving click audible. (Side 1 skips too badly at the crack line so no point insisting ...). What I did hear then (and I just relistened now after having dug the LP from its grave in a far corner of my collection ) was amusing but a bit gimmicky and some of the tunes were a bit low on jazz (even chamber jazz) content for my taste. I am not the biggest fan of flutes in jazz, the cello is no great swinger and the harpsichord was a bit over the top (though it did bring in a nice Gramecry Five feeling in places) - so all in all nice to have but no desert island disc. But of course I was unable to listen really closely as the click did have me worried for my stylus. FWIW, as a bit of "consolation" a couple of years ago an EP extracted from that LP (Capitol EAP 1-1108) came my way. The tunes (Have You Met Miss Jones/Jeepers Creepers/It Might As well Be Spring/Sweet Georgia Brown) are probably some of the more jazzish of the lot, and at least I've now got one third of the LP contents in playable condition until the LP comes my way again. The tunes (e.g. "Have you Met Miss Jones") do remind me of some of the exercises in that vein that Horst Jankowski and Wolfgang Lauth did over here (before 1959!) with jazz-cum-baroque chamber music settings (though certainly not as third-streamish as the MJQ or George Gruntz). And from what I have "heard" from the remainder of the LP I can very well imagine that it will appeal to those who like film music. I can imagine some of the tunes as a sort of semi-jazz movie background ... Re- Jack Marshall, I had not been aware of him before I took the plunge for that 18th Century Jazz LP. But I've more consciously taken note of his presence on various studio dates since. He can do more than he did on that 18th Century Jazz LP, e.g. on the first of the two Dom Frontiere LPs in the Liberty "Jazz In Hollywood" series (LJH 6002). He has a few pleasant solo spots on guitar there.