Big Beat Steve

Seems like it ...

If this is so then I have another one for you: One to be heard to be believed too. Eat your heart out, not just you Yardbirds but John Lee too.

He was HUGELY successful in Germany and toured everywhere all of the time but he was Czech, that's a fact. And as far as I know he never made his permanent residence outside Czechosolvakia. BTW, as I just saw now on reading his bio on Wiki (FWIW) he was one of those who signed the Communist-party initiated "anti-charter" AGAINST the liberal-freedom-minded "Charta 77" - which some held against him. Another one with more facets to his personality than some would imagine ... BTW, for you who appreciates music off the beaten tracks of the obvious, try to get your hands on his early single that has his (English-sung) cover version of "Be Bop a Lula". Which will explain to you where many younger European singers of the (late) 50s and 60s came from. Overruling post-war U.S. influences all the way.

I like my fair shares of oddball music and have been guilty of buying some, but not in my wildest nightmares would I want to find myself actually spending money on ANY of his records ... .. and I still feel sort of ashamed of that day in, I think, 1970 or so (when I was about 10) when I urged my pa to step on it on the autobahn to make it back from our uncle's place to our home in time for the start of the TV "Hitparade" where Heino was scheduled to appear on that particular Saturday evening ... (But things abated fast after that, though there still must be a 45 from that era somewhere around in a hidden corner - actually one with a picture sleeve dating back to BEFORE the doctor ordered him to wear "sunshades after dark" (and before ... ). Heino was the epitome of square - maybe actually square enough to make him cool again in some circles. I guess .... His way of singing (including the allegedly rolling "r" which in fact was just part of a somewhat TOO clear diction by contemporary trends if you DO speak German and get the lyrics) may be reminiscent of some regions (I know a region way north of Frankfurt where they roll their "r"s like crazy) but is not something specifically Teutonic per se but rather a singing STYLE of "popular" baritones from way, way back (be it in "volksmusik" or elsewhere) that for some reason came natural to him. Including the "marching rhythm".Yet I think I was not the only one who at the time wondered if the way he sang was that he MEANT it that way or that it was a put-on to try to see how far he'd get with that ... and get away with it (very far, it seems ... ) His South African tours and Schlesierland singing came at a time when nobody in their "right" mind in the music-LISTENING world at large took him seriously anymore so that did not do lasting damage to his reputation with the general public or media. At any rate, next to Red River Dave he was virtually nowhere ... FWIW, I have seen one or two interviews with him from his (more recent) rock days where on general topics he showed a relatively liberal and commonsensical attitude. Getting wise as he aged? As for his more recent "rock" period, this of course came up for discussion in some rock listening circles and apart from the fact that most did not take it very eriously, teh consensus most often was that he did it on the premise of "I have gone that far and am that far beyond good or bad or whatever that I can do whatever I please and get away with it because I am beyond categorization ..." And he wasn't far off the mark, I think ... As for that "oompah" music - don't get those styles wrong ... What Heino did often was not just "Schlager" in the stricter meaning of the term but more often words put to "Volksmusik" (that often is perforemd as instrumentals), and this was and is no strictly German affair. It's not limited to Bavaria but you are just as likely to find that "oompah" in Austria, some regions of Switzerland, the Alsace region of France, Czechoslovakia, and all this come not just from those of German descent but Bohemians too, for example. (I'd bet some of the U.S. ethno-music heritage, e.g. whatever the Polka bands play if it is not strict polkas they play, takes its inspiration from that kind of "Volksmusik" too). Anyway ... this a truly funny thread. Amazing to see how someone like Heino can be given that much shrift here - of all places ... P.S Karel Gott was Czech (and proud of it), not German.

Bought this one some time ago and am gradually reading my way through it. Interesting from the wider angle the author adopts. While doing an online research on one or two of the sources mentioned in the bibliography I also came across those two items below and found them tempting enough to my interests to pull the trigger: So all these will probably keep me busy for quite a while, particularly since they are no easy reads (though - at least "in my book" and as far as I can see, "easier" than Tom Perchard's "After Django). And right now my musical reading alternates between "Making Jazz French" and the end of Vol. 1 to be folowed by Vol. 2 of Allen Lowe's "Turn Me Loose White Man" anyway (which I find extremely interesting and informative but challenging too). For some lighter reading in between, I still have to continue and finish Dany Barker's autobiography ("A Life in Jazz") from the lot of secondhand books I scored in early January.

Ezz-thetic (Prestige, 1951-53, including a sessin wiht Miles Davis) And though not wantin to toot the Eurojazz horn too much, give the following at least a try: Young Lee (Vogue, Paris 1953) Lee Konitz in Sweden 1951/53 (Dragon) Cologne session 1956 (Konitz-Koller-Gullin, rec. for mod records, released on Carisch, reissued on the Mod records box set) Zo-Ko-Ma (Attila Zoller-Lee Konitz-Albert Mangelsdorff, MPS 1968)

Rooster, please have a look at the "Jazz in München" book by Hermann Wilhelm and Gisela Kurtz published in 2007 by Lenter's in Munch. On page 104 (in a chapter dedicated to the "Domicile" club) they specifically refer to the concert with Benny Bailey and the Mal Waldron trio that according to the authors was a highlight of the concerts at the club after it reopened (following extensive renovation of the club) and became the very first live recording at the Domicile that was released on record (and was the first in a series of "Live im Domicile" releases). Besides, according to the credits Joachim Ernst Berendt (the jazz pope #1 in Germany and an authority in every respect imaginable at that time) contributed the liner notes. Would he have put his name under something faked up - like those cheapo US records with fake applause on Crown? At that time? With this overriding "art" approach to jazz by everyone involved? Really?

I do like a fair bit of the Kenton output but I was baffled too when I saw that at a local 2nd hand record clearance sale but (IIRC it's the "Stan Kenton in Hi-Fi" album with bonus tracks) but it's a nice item for the car CD player (though the label does keep amusing me even now, not so much about what the jazz world would have been like if Kenton had actually been a BN artist but about to what marketing lengths and idiocies some label image marketers go ).

Like Stan Kenton's Capitol albums from the 50s. That happened in the CD era.

I guess many can chuckle because - as several forumists have hinted at before - this can be interpreted and discussed any number of ways and STILL be true because you just cannot generalize: - Very low pressing run = rare - but bad? Maybe yes, maybe no. - Poor distribution = rare. Bad? Maybe yes, maybe no. - A record that bombed and didn't sell because it WAS bad and therefore became rare? No doubt such cases exist. And I guess that in the flood of LP releases of the 50s (much bemoaned by many scribes st the time) there must have been quite a few of these. - Are there collectors who value rarity as an end in itself and tend to hear the music on the platter through rose-colored glases and find qualities in it that wasn't seen at the time (which is why the record dropped dead on release)? You bet there are! For a number of highly subjective reasons. Not least of all because criteria of "good" or "bad" can be subjective too. So this can be an endless discussion, with no definite judgment possible in many cases.

All set to continue reading with Vol. 2 as soon as it hits my mailbox so I for one am rarin' to go.

Some comments: 1) True, particularly with major names. But in the case of some artists there just may be conflicting (period) source material or evolving name uses over time. I realize this is probably not what you are thinking of (primarily) but this is a problem too and the boundaries can sometimes get blurred in certain niche releases. 2) What if the song titles deviated from the "published" titles way, way before the reissue was compiled, e.g. on the original label of decades ago? Try to turn back THAT clock too in each and every case? 3) Very true, but 100% accurate images may be lacking in some cases. 4) YES!!! This is one pet peeve of mine, though I have to admit that things have improved a lot since the 70s/early 80s when it was all too common to stick garish recent photographs on reissues from the 40s or 50s. An related problem (and part of my pet peeve, aside from using artwork graphics that don't fit the period of the music AT ALL) is: Don't EVER give in to the temptation to shift some work to some semi-talented "house artist" who just makes a blurred, blotched, ineptly abstracted mess of an existing photograph that those in the know clearly recognize but cannot help wondering what the point of "doing that up" was in the first place. 5) Obviously yes too. 6) Cardboard mini-LPs where you have a hard time trying to extract the CD from the all too slim and close-fitting sleeve are offenders too. 7) Could this logical order always be kept up over time? Just let some sort of change of company strategy happen and things get out of hand and numbering systems may change drastically.

Understandable and certainly more convenient in several ways but what would you do in the case of BIG BAND releases/reissues involving multiple seesions with only slightly shifting personnel? No more place for liner notes, then? . Besides, I wonder how the magazine scribes would have fared if your approach would have been the norm throughout. How would record reviewers have been able to cope with space constraints if they had not been able/allowed to use the "replaces" shortcut? No more personnel listings at all, or only main soloists? I doubt this would have been more convenient overall. Besides, your approach can backfire in those cases where the "out" convention is used (a likely but common alternative to what you seem to refer to as the "except" convention). Re-list the entire personnel even if only one or two men drop out from the line-up for specific tunes? Wouldn't this be over the top? But if you conceded the use of "out", why not the others, some will certainly ask. I cannot quite see an easy and consistent way out.

True, we are talking about a specific instance (and therefore horse). According to Google sources, some seem to disagree and use "the ..." in the same sense but I agree that, looking closer at it, this is not quite specific enough.

From over here across the pond, thanks for the reissue productions, liner notes and the Soul Jazz book. The name "Bob Porter" on a record sleeve spelled Quality. RIP

Anyway ... any way you look at it, actual use has run away from the definitions that you prefer that no doubt are correct by criteria agreed upon once upon a time but have become overly formulaic in the light of actual use. Not least of all because - as hinted at above - e.g. the degree of bodily reaction that you use as a criterion just isn't that rigidly applicable. Language evolves over time (for better or worse, but it does ...) Like it or not, "the horse done left the barn ...". But don't try to shoot me for it - I am just the messenger. "Nuff said" (on a totally different liguistic level). And apologies to Allen again for the off-topicness.

In the end it all depends on the extrovertness (or emotionalness? ) of the person concerned. But I think we are getting dangerously close to splitting hairs - not least of all because language (and its use) isn't totally static. Now the cringe vs wince theme may be a pet peeve of yours but OTOH if such fine distinctions were drawn EVERYWHERE in the English language and its (presumed) correct use then you'd have a handful to take care of if you'd follow this through - including on this forum, e.g. its use of affected streetwise gibberish or group slang by some, etc. And talking about dogs, I have yet to see you step up and take offense at the use of the word "dog" to address PERSONS, for example. So ... relax - please! (My apologies to Allen ... )

Yes, embarrassment for someone else seems to be the common denominator, correctly or incorrectly. (The way I have heard/read this used) But AFAICS this cringing CAN include embarrassment in the sense of almost feeling pain because of this embarrassment. Haven't we all at one time or another had a feeling that what someone else does or says makes you so embarrassed as to literally cause you bodily pain? No actual pain, of course, but the facial expression is there. So it's a fine line between wincing and actually cringing (for/about someone else) ... Mail sent. Thanks a lot!

Linguistically inclined, I checked several online sources, including the Cambridge dictionary (trying to find a definition of the difference) but find that definitions of their meaning (of wince on the once hand and of the - in most cases - "informal use" of cringe on the other) are very much the same. I am aware of both words and their use and while I'd take your word for your reasoning, could it be that "the horse done left the barn" a long time ago? Anyway, back to the topic, good to see that the review has had its effect. I am more than ever looking forward to receiving my copy of Part 2 of the book that accompanies the CD set.

In today's world, Google is the all-time best friend of your memory.

Talking about films and jazz fandom ... Strange thing ... Of course I've heard the name of Bertrand Tavernier quite a few times and have seen some of his films, but whenever I hear his name it is automatically "Elevator to the Gallows" ("Ascenseur pour l'Echafaud") that comes to mind - before I realize "no, that wasn't Bertrand!"

I had forgotten about the Cats vs Chicks 10-incher (which I own) as I was thinking of earlier recordings. (Pity if there are none) So Vivian Garry had more recording exposure in the heyday of 52nd Street, it seems.

Apart from Vivian Garry. Her all-female quintet session on RCA VIctor ("e.g. "A Woman's Place Is In The Groove" ) ought to be mandatory for this radio show - for the title alone ... As for Bonnie Wetzel, what records was she featured on? According to Bruyninckx, she did not participate in the recordings that the Soft Winds trio made.

Margie Hyams was in the list of artists mentioned in Ghost's opening post so I did not mention her. Of course she would have been "first pick" among those I am aware of. I wonder if the recently-deceased Viola ("with her 17 drums") ever played on 52nd St. in any aggregation?

Re- the above name calling: Wasn't Toshiko Akiyoshi way too late to be considered part of 52nd Street in the proer sense of the term? Isn't the feature supposed to focus on the HEYDAY of 52nd Street? At any rate, this is how i understood Ghost's initial query. As for Valaida Snow, after her European years of 1936-43 I can only find references to appearances at the Apollo Theater. But as for others who might fit the billl of (preferably) forties and early fifties female acts on 52nd Street, how about the combos of vibist/pianist Dardanelle (Breckenridge) and of bassist Vivian Garry? The well-known WIliam Gottlieb photos of 1947 do seem to prove their presence there.