Big Beat Steve

Many Skylark releases were reissued on Tampa. BTW, Chewy, I'd love to take that Big Boy 78 rpm off your hands but am afraid shipping costs alone would be prohibitive these days.

Yes you did - thanks!

OOOhhhh .. Chewy ... don't be so one-track-minded ... You NEED to see this in the context of the times. WEST COAST 'n' all ... Of course they were just having a ball doing THEIR version of what Big Jay McNeely and others did on the Coast in the early 50s (R&B and their honkers were BIG there in the early 50s and did attract a white audience too - see the recent discussion of the 1951 photogrpah of Big Jay McNeely by Bob Willoughby on this forum), and Rumsey et al. just tried to show they had the chops to outhonk any WHITE honkers if they felt like it (there IS some gutsiness and down-to-earthness present in the black R&B originals that escapes the white bunch but I for one like what they do anyway - and what Rumsey and his gang did was not "gutbucket", BTW. "Gutbucket blues" would be more like that "blues in the gutter"). There even was a spliced remake titled "M.B.B." ("More Big Boy") by them used on other Skylark releases, and the "Lighthouse all Stars Vol. 3" LP on Contemporary 3508 has another one in the same vein recorded in July 1952: "Big Girl". It all was a bit like what Shorty Rogers and his consorts did soon after as "Boots Brown & His Blockbusters" on RCA (coupled with a group around Al Cohn billed as "Dan Drew & His Daredevils").

Yes, mentioning Joe Rushton sounds more like me. I remember having "explored" his presence on records at some time and this may have been fairly close to when this exchange took place in 2013 (it's one of those discussions that I did not remember right away at all when I saw it again today). So except the line you highlighted in bold everything else was not by me. It's not a big deal but if you could correct it, then - yes, MANY THANKS beforehand. BTW, it's very strange that this happened at the time at all. Because I do re-read my posts as they display and now and then I've had to correct them if the quoted sections did not show up the way I intended them to. The bottom line: Late needs to ask Jeffrcom about that Audiophile LP.

Before this thread fades off into obscurity without having ever got off the ground, here's an additon of something more off the known and familiar ... No, the below LP did not give birth to a bunch of offsprings ... Close to 25 years ago I picked up a fairly "pre-enjoyed" (but very cheap) U.S. original of "Ellington 55" at a fleamarket. A very nice (though somewhat atypical) Ellington record but though the seam splits repaired OK, the vinyl IS rather pop-n-cracklish. So when by chance a full set of VG+++ 45s (U.S. originals) that make up the contents of this LP came my way in the jazz 45s bin at my #1 local secondhand record store I jumped on it ... I still cannot quite fathom how come that jazz 45s with picture sleeves seem to be that rare (see earlier posts in this thread), at least in the US. Over here they can be found, and I have several hundred in my jazz vinyl collection myself (and picked up eight more original - 50s - jazz 45s with picture sleeves at that shop today ...). I wouldn't know where to start posting mine, though .. maybe preferably more obscure ones such as the multi-record 45 rpm albums that were not that uncommon on U.S. RCA and Capitol - and probably other labels - in the 50s but for the most part seem to have been forgotten. After all these "45 rpm albums" marketed in parallel with regular 10 or 12" 33 rpm vinyls ARE oddball formats (in the jazz field and elsewhere) by today's standards.

Sorry to say but this forum seems to have f...ed up at some point. The post from 8 years ago that you referred to MOST DEFINITELY is NOT by me, though inexplicably it is listed under my nick. Regrettably I don't own that record, and what is more, I do not have a "sax repair guy" among my contacts or acquainances as I don't play sax. No idea how this happened but I figure that at some time something in the forum contents got jumbled up during some update (or contents transfer to a new server?). (Not good at all!) Hope there aren't other mixups ...

OK, that makes sense - not "dated" in the stricter sense but less adventurous and less freewheeling. Which just might reflect the "unpretentiousness" highlighted by Nat Hentoff (i.e. just straight-ahead music with no high-flying ambitions). I agree, and to some extent this is the charm of it if you can get "into" that period. Wouldn't you wince (or cringe ) if a typical mid-60s crime "noir" movie were "updated" with a 2020s-ish soundtrack? And this is why there are bands/orchestras out there that take their cues from music of the 30s, 40s, 50s or 60s and produce something that (while it is no soundalike carbon copy to fool blindfold test listeners) is unmistakably in the spirit of the era they chose but (obviously) with a somewhat modernized touch. Because even in the "retro" subculture time doesn't stand still.

In fact I found the Coral LP (reissued on Jasmine and therefore widely accessible for the past 30+ years, contrary to others of his leader dates) rather middle-of-the-road-ish too and therefore was somewhat disappointed, compared to other charts he did in the 50s. But I don't think "dated" (with its derogatory meaning) would be the term. Even more adventurous and outright jazz-oriented big bands of the 50s do sound like products of their time and therefore "dated" with positive connotations.

In what way and by what yardstick or point of reference? After all this was some 65 years ago. Two entire generations! The fairly enthusiastic 4-star DB review by Nat Hentoff finds the originals and arrangements are "clean, unpretentios and have a lot of strength. Several of those are also staples in the Basie book and while these Hefti units don't play these scores with all of the charging joy the Basiemen do, they acquit themselves very well for units that are not regularly together." Not that this review needs to be the everlasting final word on it, but maybe it's the unpretentiousness that's "at fault"? Which music hasn't "dated" (i.e. is a piece of its time to this or that extent) if you take CURRENT musical trends as the starting point? With "Lil Darlin'" and its remakes covered (see above), here's a nod at "Cute" and its impact: The small group version recorded by Horst Jankowski in 1961 was a staple on jazz radio in southern Germany for some 20 years or more. It was the signature tune of the "Treffpunkt Jazz" jazz concert re-broadcast show on SDR radio throughout the 70s and into the 80s, long after the LP with the original recording had been deleted everywhere and fallen by the wayside. So it must have been familiar to virtually every jazz listener in the southwest of Germany for at least 2 decades. It took me years from my start in the mid-70s until sometime in the early 80s when I got a cassette dub of the LP owned by the father of a neighbor friend to find out which recording this exactly was. (Sorry, it doesn't seem to be on Youtube - it's on THIS LP:) https://www.discogs.com/de/master/859789-Horst-Jankowski-G%C3%A4ste-Bei-Horst-Jankowski

Those and similar ones would warrant a separate thread ...

At any rate it's weird(o) to see this on a JAZZ EP.

Rat Fink's cousin going Free Jazz? Amazing ... I wonder if Ed 'Big Daddy' Roth (or Stanley Mouse, maybe) had a hand in the "weirdo" artwork (or was be being plagiarized? )

Well, why not, then ... I assume you all lump in both (actual) singles and EPs under the 45 rpm header of this thread, then?

I'm not quite sure I get this thread, at least not by looking at what has been posted up to now. So ANY 7" single or EP sleeve of jazz or jazz-ish vinyl is considered "seldom seen" (which would make this thread a "post ALL of your 45 rpm jazz and jazz-related sleeves here, regardless of there was something special about them or not" thread)? Or was the OP thinking of a) picture sleeves that have something VERY special about them (in what way? Artwork details? Printing? Shape and packaging? Depending on one's taste and preferences ANYTHING can be considered "special")? b) "neutral" (non-picture) "generic" label sleeves which are off the ordinary for a generic sleeve because there IS something special about them that goes beyond the "generic"? c) ACTUAL "singles" only? EPs usually came with picture sleeves anyway, 2-track SINGLES (with non-extended play of their tunes ) much less so. And in those countries where EPs hung on much longer than (probably) in the States (such as Sweden and France) they ABOUNDED. So would I post all of my RCA, Columbia, Atlantic et al. multi-EP sleeves here? Because by the yardsticks of OTHER decades than the 50s 7" multi-EP sleeves/albums definitely are "seldom seen"? (Personally I would not consider those EPs that split the contents of a 12" 33 rpm LP onto an "album" of several 45s to be all that extraordinary but no doubt those who have never had any of these in their hands would think differently about the very format)

BTW, the thanks is on me - your post above triggered me to pull out my CD copy of "Count Basie at Newport" for tonight's listening. Though I think I'll skip over John Hammond's intro blurb this time ...

I'm biased because I am a huge fan (up to an including, say, the mid-60s, though I don't despise a good dose of the Pablos either) so I can very well make my record listening a personal "Afternoon of a Basie-ite". When you mention the "Old Testament" recordings, do you include both the Decca AND the Columbia sides? And the RCAs too? Just so everybody knows what you already are familiar with ... At any rate, don't let yourself be fooled by those who give the RCAs short shrift. They are very well worth listening. And as for others from the "Old Testament" period (a silly term though everyone understands, so ...), I'd recommend to check out the airshots and live recordings you can get your hands on (there are LOTS on vinyl - and probably on CD too by now - from the 1940-45 period). Two that I feel are mandatory as starters are "The Count at the Chatterbox" (1937) and "Count Basie at the Famous Door" (1938-39), both on the Jazz Archives label. As for the "New Testament", did you get closer to the Atomic LP now? Just so we know whether it would make sense recommending the Roulette recordings at all. (PS I see they have been touched upon since I wrote my post. Seconded form me - particularly the Benny Carter and Breakfast Dance albums - I have yet to find a copy of Basie at Birdland - and personally I find his reworkings of his OLD Testament recordings quite interesting too that he did for Roulette. But admittedly YMMV.) As for the early 50s, the "Paradise Squat" and "Sixteen Men Swinging" twofers on Verve are good introductions to that period. Unless you try to source the reissues of all the original LPs in their original packaging (maybe expanded on CD). From a period that is a bit later (1962), "Count Basie and the Kansas City Seven" on Impulse is a good one. The "On My Way & Shoutin' Again" that Paulfromcamden (ah, memories ... Camden Lock etc. ... ) mentioned would be another one to exploire first from that period. And son on and so on (from all periods ...) - but like I said, I'm basie'd ... eh. bias'd.

Of course that photograph shows Big Jay McNeely. This pic was taken at a Midnight Matinee Concert organized by Hunter Hancock (which does explain the - predominantly - white audience, I think) at the Olympic Auditorium in L.A. on 6 October 1951. The Big Jay McNeely bio "Nervous Man Nervous" by Jim Dawson explains how that concert (and others of that kind) came about in L.A. This photo also figures in the liner notes to the Big Jay McNeely "Road House Boogie" LP (Saxophonograph BP-505) from the mid-80s, and the liner notes to this album provide some background on the L.A. scene. More info on the black and white interaction at the club gigs and concerts in L.A. in the first part of the 50s can also be found in the liner notes to the "Jimmy Wright - Let's Go Crazy Crazy Baby" LP (Saxophonograph BM-1301). This and many other photographs taken by Bob Willoughby at that concert (in addition to his other jazz photographs) were shown in at least two relatively recent major books: - "Bob Wiloughby - Jazz in L.A. " published by Nieswand in the 90s (which included a bonus 30x45 cm poster of that very photograph. That huge oversized coffee-table folio cost huge money in the 90s but I did not regret shelling out for it) - "Bob Willoughby - Jazz Body & Soul", Evans Mitchell Books (UK), 2012 (also published in French by Editions Milan in 2013) Some sources say LIFE featured the photo in a feature story in 1952, and one photograph from that very concert (of teenagers screaming wildly) made it into the important worldwide "The Family of Man" photo exhibition of 1955. So Willoughby's photographic documentation of that concert did leave its mark. Like Dansgoodstuff said .. Things were never as cut 'n dried ...

Obviously classic R&B (not its evoutions into soul - not soul jazz where you had yur sax men too) HAD passed by the time 12in LPs were the most widespread media. But there were lots on LP reissues of 40s/50s sax-led R&B recordings throughout subsequent decades of the vinyl era. They covered a wide field and lots of artists but obviously these were no comprehensive at all (but this would have been an impossible task- both in view of the time and the existing market and of the huge range of recordings). But there were enough to keep the buyers busy ... Starting with period items such as this one (with a cover to match ) https://www.discogs.com/de/Various-Saxomaniac-Sax-Sounds/release/3513041 (predating, in a way, the reissues from the Apollo Catalog on the "Honkers & Bar Walkers" LP & CD releases), there were many more, partly by the majors (the "Atlantic Honkers" 2-LP set, "Honkers & Screamers" in the Savoy Roots of Rock'n'Roll twofer series), but also on various collector labels such as P-Vine (Japan), Riverboat (France), Swingtime (Denmark/UK), Oldie Blues (Netherlands), Queen-Disc (Italy), Ace as well as Flyright (UK) which reissued V.A. compilations, or Saxophonograph and also Whiskey Women and ... (Sweden) or Official (Denmark/UK) which featured individual artists (including one by Big John Greer on Official, for instance).

So I just checked my Leadbitter/Slaven and find that except for his two final sessions on King in 1956 (6 tracks - how many of which may have been ballads?) there is just his very first sesion (the one you allude to - for SIW in 1948), and his ENTIRE other output was for RCA (Victor or Groove). which does not leave much non-RCA room. I did not check the entire contents of that new reissue but just compared the tracks listed in the sales text above - and most of these were the same (a pity because according to Leadbitter/Slaven he recorded some 60 tracks for RCA - enough for 2 CDs without too many overlaps. Or is there that much dross?) Anyway ... it looks like a comparison would be a good thing to do for those who already own the Rev-Ola CD. I am not quite sure ... I'd rate the comparatively early post-war Earl Bostic high among those 40s/50s R&B sax men but am less sure about all those Bostic LPs that King released on him throughout the 50s and early 60s (sometimes newly recorded, sometimes recycling earlier-recorded items). I like most of of those I've heard (which are not nearly all) for what they are but they do tend to be a bit formulaic and more pop/r'n'r than more straight-ahead R&B. A bit like where Sam The Man Taylor veered off with some of his 50s MGM recordings.

This CD seems to duplicate a lot with the Big John Greer "I'm The Fat Man" CD on Rev-Ola Bandstand (CR BAND 17) from 2007. At least most of the tracks listed in the above description also figure on the Rev-Ola CD. So anyone owning this CD ought to compare the track listings first. I also wonder if the new Jasmine CD will be a a "real" CD or a CD-R.

Not the Bob Moore of "Mexico", then?

Remember Musidisc is a FRENCH label. "D.R. " (an abbreviation I initially was a bit puzzled about too back in those 70s) means "Droits Réservés". That's the same thing as "Copyright Control" that figures as the composer credits for "traditional" or "public domain" tunes (or tunes where the actual songwriter/composer is unknown) on many English-language labels (mostly UK if I remember correctly). As for incorrect identificatin of the venue on the sleeve - yes, Musidisc was bad on that (and they were far from the only label of that type that got the dates wrong) but OTOH it was the first and only label that made THAT much music available to us over here at that time. And often they just recopied incorrectly what had been botched up on earlier "grey market" releases that Musidisc had recycled (such as certain Alamac LPs, for example).

Ack Värmeland du Sköna? Bought a 78 of that very recording the other day where the tune is listed as "Standanavian". Nice play on words but not an indicator of the composer, of course. And FWIW, it IS credited as a "traditional" on the label.

I can only second (or third or whatever) what everyone else said. Hang in there, Allen, I'm crossing my fingers for a full recovery that will happen as fast a humanly possible. Your contributions to music matters are needed very much.

Just one remark abut Scott DeVeaux' "Birth of Bebop" book: I bought it when it came out (despite the hefty import price) and enjoyed reading it a lot as it covers one of my core periods and styles of interest in jazz. BUT - what's that grossly inflated amount of space allocated to Coleman Hawkins? Much as I enjoy all his 40s recordings and realize he had quite a few of the "young turks of Bebop" working in his groups at various times, isn't that rather a lopsided description of 40s jazz (and its protagonists) as it evolved into bebop/modern jazz? To me this somehow detracts from the overall impact of the book as IMO it seems the author has an agenda that goes beyond the historically balanced presentation of the facts and I would not be surprised if in some circles this would lower its credibility as a reference source. What would you, Mark Stryker, as a renowned author have (or like) to comment on that aspect of the book? Yes, and one minor detail about the online version of your (very interesting) story. The reissue label of McGhee's Dial recordings is Spotlite. not Spotlight.