Rabshakeh

I mean, I do like Susto. It's like what I would have imagined 80s Miles would sound like if I had never heard 80s Miles. I'm not sure whether I need another Susto in my life though.

But why did it suddenly flower at that point. Post 1965, when jazz is collapsing sales-wise would seem to be the worst time to launch a precarious and expensive big band. Let alone for studios to suddenly have multiple big bands on their books. Equally, why did it suddenly stop?

I wanted to open up a discussion of the working big bands of the period 1965 (when the Jones/Lewis band began) to the end of the 1970s. Specifically those in the "bop" space, as opposed to the continuing Ellington / Basie axes. I am not including studio big bands put together by record labels like CTI or Verve for one offs. As a person who grew up in the late 90s, I had never really thought about bop big bands being a thing later than Kenton / Herman (save for some hold out examples of success like Gillespie's). However, it is clear from being on this site and hearing reminisces that in fact they very much did continue to be a thing. In fact there does appear to have been a strong revival of big bands that occured in the late 1960s, at precisely the point in time when I would have least expected it and wider market trends would have seemed economically least supportive. I am thinking about Mel Lewis / Thad Jones, Toshiyuki Miyama, Kenny Clarke / Francy Boland, Maynard Ferguson, Toshiko Akiyoshi / Lew Tabackin, Buddy Rich and various others. From this site, it seems like those groups were very well loved at the time; the records were reasonable or big sellers, and were regarded as important (and continue to be favourites here); and that the groups created their own ecosystems of talent, with many of the younger players of the 70s first being recognised playing with this or that big band, as had been the case in earlier generations. Some of the groups, like Ferguson's and Miyama's also have some successful experiments with electric instruments, which to my ears sound great. Obviously, these groups are not all of a type. Clarke/Boland is a rag tag group of emigres and Europeans, Buddy Rich is collecting a cheque in Las Vegas. But there does appear to have been an impressive flowering at this time. All of this seems to have left a big mark on this forum, but less on the history books. By the 80s they seem to be gone. So: What are the theories as to the reasons (musical, social and economic) for the sudden re-emergence of artistically successful working big bands at this time? Why did they disappear at around the point that the bop revival gains steam in the press? For the more experienced members, what are your recollections of these groups (seeing and hearing them) and how they stood out against the wider musical backdrop of the period? What are your favourite records that were released by these groups?

I know Susto . Are the other two good?

Thanks!

Thanks. That looks good. I'll check it out.

That's interesting. I would not in a million years have guessed that it was a Mal Waldron tune.

Other than Consummation which are generally the most well love records from the first period, and what is a representative record from the latter two? Consummation is the only one that I know.

Okay! Going in, sir.

Are these two as good? If so, I'm not stopping at all. Still streaming the first, but the evening is young.

The Fritz Pauer Trio – Blues Inside Out (MPS) Listening to this now for the first time after a recommendation in the MPS thread and it's absolutely top notch. One of the best piano trio records I've heard in ages. So exciting. It's like someone dropped Tyner, Evans and Garner into a blender. Thank you to whoever recommended it.

Amy views on these three? I see them constantly in markets and second hand shops. Are they up to the CBBB releases' quality?

J.J. Johnson – First Place (Columbia, 1957) Nit sure why, but Max Roach always sounds great on these 50s JJ Columbias.

Thanks!

I don't know these two. They look interesting. I had not heard of the group Detail, or this enhanced version. They appear to have a number of records. Are there any that anyone particularly recommends?

Elegant Soul is an outlier. It isn't really a three sounds record in the same way but I do like it. I don't have a bottom 1 or 2. The rest are records that I simply don't like as much. I think it's basically a soul record, and a nice one. I'm with you here.

Gil Melle – Patterns In Jazz (Blue Note, 1957)

The 1/3 is: Introducing… Bottoms Up Here We Come Out of this World Elegant Soul Clearly there’s the first two in there. Beyond that, no real theme. Sometimes they just sound more switched on, and crackle a little more, and sometimes less so. With the 3 Sounds the quality I look for comes from such tiny little decisions of rhythm and emphasis, that I think this sort of gut reaction is intensified, in a way that it would not be with their peers.

I see that it is on Spotify.

Charlie Mingus – A Modern Jazz Symposium Of Music And Poetry (Bethlehem, 1959) I feel like this one gets lost in the shuffle sometimes. A great record.

Nice ones. Are you still in Canada?

I find 3 Sounds to be all about chemistry. I take strongly to or against specific records, for no reason that is immediately clear to me, except that it sounds like the group is clicking on this one and not on the other. Sorry to spout drivel of this sort, but I love roughly a third of their records and don't really click with the other two thirds, and I see no logical reason why.

David Hurley – Outer Nebula Inner Nebula (Porter, 2008)

Are there any good books (or even documentaries) that cover the "non classic" Blue Note eras. The stories above are quite compelling, and I would love to read something of this sort that talks about Butler, the Vault reissues, etc.

I don’t remember either of them! I’ll go back and review. I remember Blakey being refreshing, because he was one of the few who dodged the leading questions.