Blindfold Test freeloaders

[mikeweil]

Another member brought this topic up again in a PM.

We both feel that after receiving the Blindfold Test disc(s), each recipient should at least post one note of receipt and appreciation or disgust or whatever. Just getting the music - and we all know how much work is involved - without even acknowledging the Test Master's efforts is not okay IMHO.

Everybody should be able to give it a listen and post a response - or an excuse.

How shall we handle this in the future - a blacklist?

[EKE BBB]

[EKE BBB]

Now seriously, I agree with you, mike. A few lines of gratitude are not so hard to write!

[Dan Gould]

The fact is there are always going to be freeloaders. It goes with the territory, and shaming them isn't going to change it. And considering that sometimes life gets in the way and we end up appearing to be freeloaders makes it rather unfair if anyone was denied a future BFT disc because of it.

Live and let live, I say (and know that about half of the discs you send out won't get a response from the recipient.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

Guess it does go with the territory and the cream will always rise to the top.

I say you just "calls-em-like-ya-sees-'em"

Unfortunately, the same seems to go for trading or even selling discs through the 'board'. I'm much more likely to get a thank you e-mail as well as some positive feedback from an eBay buyer than ...

[MartyJazz]

Well, as one who joined Organissimo somewhat recently, I have received BFTs 7 through 11 and have partaken in all the discussion threads. However, let me here express my thanks to Mssrs. Man with a Golden Arm, Jim Dye, Alexander, rockefeller center and RDK for affording me challenging, enlightening and interesting hours of listening. (I wish my turn was sooner than #41 as I'd love to reciprocate ASAP).

[tooter]

I just makes the rest of us who do play the game feel virtuous, self-satisfied and holier-than-thou. But if it makes some feel uncomfortable perhaps there could be a three strikes and you're out rule?

[RDK]

...perhaps there could be a three strikes and you're out rule?

My thoughts exactly. I do agree with Dan that "life sometimes gets in the way" - don't I know it - but if one takes the time to request a BFT test and to presumably listen to it, then one should at least make even a miminal effort to respond to it - if only to say "I got it, thanks, but I hate everything on it." (And no, I'm not directly quoting anyone here. )

I wouldn't want to cut someone from the roster if they failed to respond to a test - or maybe even two of them in a row - but if it becomes a pattern then by all means they should be at least warned. The fun of it, at least to me, is in the participation; if we don't have that then why bother?

[Dan Gould]

Well, if we follow Tooter and Ray's advice, one compiler would have to keep the next compiler informed of laggards and freeloaders, unless an up-to-date list of signups is kept in the sign-up thread.

Or, maybe the last thing a compiler should do, after the answers are revealed and discussed, is to compare his signup list with the discussion thread and then post a list of laggards and freeloaders at the end of the discussion thread? Then, subsequent compilers can see the list and compare it to their lists.

Still, it seems like a lot of work for a negative thing.

[catesta]

I didn't participate in Alexander's BFT for the simple reason I had so much going on at that time. I still do, but I could not resist an opportunity this time to say....

RDK, WTF?

RDK, YOU CALL THIS JAZZ?

RDK, HOW ABOUT PUTTING IN SOMETHING A LITTLE DIFFERENT, THESE ARE TOO EASY!

.....and so on.

One should at least drop a line of thanks on the person hostng the BFT.

[RDK]

Dan, no - nothing quite so extreme. I think it becomes pretty clear who does and who doesn't contribute over the span of a few BFTs. Lately, most compilers have posted a running list of those who signed up, so the names of the participants are a matter of public record. If certain people repeatedly pop up on participant lists but then fail to contribute - repeatedly! - then perhaps the next compiler can send a polite PM asking that person specifically to chime in with some thoughts. I don't think Draconian measures are needed - except for that Catesta bastard of course - and I think it's completely up to the compiler in such a case whether or not to send something on. I'd be very reluctant to exclude anyone who wanted to participate, but at the same time if someone, say three or four times, fails to contribute anything at all then it's perfectly acceptable to exclude him/her from future tests.

As we know, several people have dropped out for a round or two when they know that they'll be too busy to respond - I probably should have done that myself a few times - and I think that's commendable. But I also have no problem when someone - especially a regular participant - wants to take part but then can't due to something coming up at the last minute.

[RDK]

RDK, WTF?

RDK, YOU CALL THIS JAZZ?

RDK, HOW ABOUT PUTTING IN SOMETHING A LITTLE DIFFERENT, THESE ARE TOO EASY!

Ah, I see that you'ver been reading the BFT 11 thread...

[brownie]

I abstained from enlisting in the RDK BFT list for the same reasons as Catesta. Would not have had the time

to get into this and contribute.

I'm on the Daniel A. list and planning to enjoy that one!

Nothing personal, RDK. Just too busy elsewhere...

[couw]

...Just too busy elsewhere...

yeah we know it involves the south of france, loads of good wine, sunshine, and whatnot... it's a *real* pity you cannot participate in this BFT you know.

[Stefan Wood]

Jeez guys, this is something. You want to force people into participating? You know, in the guidelines for these tests it makes note that people do not have to participate in the tests yet can receive discs. I have only participated in a couple, but I am more interested in the musical tastes of other board participants. I will down the road come up with a test cd myself, but come on, get real.

[couw]

Still, it seems like a lot of work for a negative thing.

I wouldn't be too afraid to leave some "negative feedback" on fellow boardmembers in this respect. It's not as if it's going to spread throughout the threads. I mean, the politics section has caused enough heated animosities that seem to be contained very nicely. We're all in this together and similarities win from any discrepancy. Still, a BFT costs a LOT (time, effort, money) and anticipation is HIGH when the discussion starts. It's a real let down if you send out 40 disks and read less than 20 responses. That's a bit too rich an investment (in many ways) for many here I think. Even if there is generous help from fellow players in copying and distributing; probably even more so as they do you the favour and then it turns out they might as well not have done so. That's like asking someone to pick up your friend from the airport and he never shows up; that sux.

Live and let live sounds cool, but it's not something I would take much of when a leach were talking to me like that.

Myself, I received several PMs and e-mails of people who did not find the time to participate, but wanted to acknowledge the effort nonetheless. That's cool.

I do a lot of voluntary team work and there the rule is, if you promise to do something, you do it, if you don't you're an asshole as others will suffer from your breaking your promise. This whole BFT thing is surely not so extreme a case, but still I think that signing up should be like a promise; and you should do what you promise, if not, you apologise and all's swell.

[couw]

Jeez guys, this is something. You want to force people into participating? You know, in the guidelines for these tests it makes note that people do not have to participate in the tests yet can receive discs. I have only participated in a couple, but I am more interested in the musical tastes of other board participants. I will down the road come up with a test cd myself, but come on, get real.

nanana, no one said anything about enforcing anyone to participate in the discussions, just that it would be NICE if a note were dropped saying "hey, I got the thing, groovy baby!!" or something to that effect (talk about a Jeez guy..., jeez! ). Your interest is surely understandable and I can also imagine people wanting to listen but not "daring" to write, or whatever. No problem, just drop the feghing note saying that you got the damn thing and are spinning it. Add a line about why you're not participating in the discussions and that's it. And no need to do this en plein public either, PM or email will suffice.

The message is that it sux to go through trouble that is not acknowledged. Not a sentiment that's too hard to fathom.

[Jim R]

Having done a BF test already myself, I understand what Mike is talking about. Not only did I have a few regular board members fail to respond, I even had requests for discs from a couple of people I'd never heard of- and haven't heard of since! At any rate, I also think Dan makes good sense (he told me the same thing when we discussed this privately following BFT #3). Maybe the best approach is to be "vocal" about it on all the BFT threads, just to at least remind everybody what the basic standards are for considerate and respectful behavior. Just my 3 cents (adjusted for inflation).

[Noj]

I have received all the BFTs, and I think I have replied to every discussion. I may not have guessed much in the process, and may have revealed my all-too-shallow knowledge of jazz, but I figure it is the least I could do in return for all the effort and costs of the BFTs.

[Jazzmoose]

Hmm. I participated in each discussion for every BFT I received (except for couw's, and I sent a PM explaining why to him). I never got back into it after missing the discussion on that, as they did seem to be coming a little too fast and furious for me to devote the listening time I felt each required for serious participation. But Stefan, come on...nobody is forced to participate; but if you sign up, you certainly ought to feel some sort of obligation to contribute, shouldn't you? I mean, "yeah, free tunes; sigh me up and then leave me the hell alone"? I dunno...doesn't sound "real" to me....

[mikeweil]

..... but still I think that signing up should be like a promise; and you should do what you promise, if not, you apologise and all's swell.

That pretty much sums it up for me, too. I know life is getting in the way of things - such things are keeping me from giving the BFT # 11 bonus disc a closer listen and comment on it, and I really dig that one to death!

A short post or PM explaining the reasons is cool with me, and the fact that all participants' lists are public so that everybody can decide on their own will regulate things, in the long run, I think!

If someone is just curious and acknowledges he can't comment much, that's cool, too - we had such cases and encouraged these members to participate nonetheless. Some need to be around for a while before they dare to post a comment - I was in doubt myself and hopped on the bandwagon only on the second round.

Just wanted to find out what you folks think about this - again, freedom rules, do as you feel. I'm not the one here to tell you how to do it, I just try to keep things public and alive and thank you all for your input.

[mikeweil]

One more thing: I, for my part, feel honored to distribute my musical preferences among such distinguished ears, and think the necessary input is okay, as it will be once in two to four years!

[Sundog]

Having done a BF test already myself, I understand what Mike is talking about.  Not only did I have a few regular board members fail to respond, I even had requests for discs from a couple of people I'd never heard of- and haven't heard of since! At any rate, I also think Dan makes good sense (he told me the same thing when we discussed this privately following BFT #3).  Maybe the best approach is to be "vocal" about it on all the BFT threads, just to at least remind everybody what the basic standards are for considerate and respectful behavior.  Just my 3 cents (adjusted for inflation).

Jim,

I would be one of those "regulars" that never responded. Please accept my long overdue apology. I enjoyed (and still enjoy)your compilation very much.

Tom

P.S. "Life got in the way"

[Jim R]

Thanks Tom. Better late than never! I got over it a long time ago, BTW.

[RDK]

Again: I don't think anyone wants to make too big an issue out of this. Let's all just try to be aware that some sort of acknowledgement is expected/appreciated (whether specific comments or just a simple "I got it, thanks"). But if someone *repeatedly* signs up and doesn't contribute then I think it's perfectly acceptable for the next compiler to say "Uh uh, no soup for you!"