Dmitry Posted September 6, 2004 Report Share Posted September 6, 2004 Recording dates are March 8,9 1957, but Tom Wilson's liner notes refer to the history of JM line-ups and mention Lee Morgan, Freddie Hubbard and Wayne Shorter, among others, so this Lp must've come out in 1963 or so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 6, 2004 Report Share Posted September 6, 2004 Think that this one first came out on Elektra (!), and somehow ended up later on Savoy. Don't know more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fenohr Posted September 6, 2004 Report Share Posted September 6, 2004 Jim is correct, the albums first release was on Elektra 120 titled Reflections Of Buhaina probably in late 57 or early 58. The Savoy Midnight Session was a reissue with new liner notes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted September 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 Think that this one first came out on Elektra (!), and somehow ended up later on Savoy. Don't know more than that. Looks Like AMG told us both that it was on Elektra. I've never seen the Elektra Lps from before the late 70s, had no idea the label was that old[unless Elektra and Elektra were two different outfits]. My Goldmine Guide tells me that the Savoy reissue came out in 1960, 3 years after the original. I wonder what the Elektra cover looked like, cause the Savoy sure is ugly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 Welllllll.... I knew that it was first on Elektra w/o consulting AMG. Don't ask me how, probably some blurb on Board Krypton. The important stuff I forget, but THIS kind of stuff I remember. But as for Elektra, it's an old(er) label. Started out doing a lot of folk and stuff, mid-50s, maybe, along with late 60s things like Butterfield, Tim Buckley, and, of course, The Doors. Not really sure how the Blakey side got made, or how it got sold to Savoy. Sounds like there's a story on both ends, maybe. Check this out: http://www.bsnpubs.com/elektra/elektrastory.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 I have a photo here of the Elektra LP cover from the Jazz Heroes Data Bank book. The title shown is "A Midnight Session With The Jazz Messengers". It's also shown in the Goldmine Jazz Album Price Guide (by Neely). That was the title of the stereo issue. "Reflections Of Buhaina" must have been used by Elektra for the mono issue (which contained that tune - the stereo Elektra album had "Study In Rhythm" instead), but I can't recall seeing that cover. Ah, the good old days of early stereo - when you could buy the "same" album twice and get very different things - and not just different mixes. Then this album was titled "Mirage" when reissued as Savoy Jazz SJL-1112. "Reflections Of Buhaina" was the title of the butchered two-fer CD that Savoy did of this (along with part of the Bill Hardman Savoy album). That CD *does* have the elusive "Study In Rhythm" track, btw. Incidentally, the Tom Lord discography CD-ROM completely omits any mention of this tune - and that's *after* having a decade to make corrections. Bruyninckx misses it too, but he mentions an alternative take of "Reflections Of Buhaina" that only appears on a Vogue CD (650130). Very interesting. Someone should do a REAL reissue of this stuff, with all the tunes from the session (7 titles, plus one alternative take) and include all the covers. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 (edited) knew I had seen this one online somewhere... Edited September 7, 2004 by couw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted September 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 The Elektra cover is more interesting than the Savoy, that's for sure. Thanks for posting it. You don't find it odd that they do only the tunes by Gigi Gryce, Ray Draper and Mal Waldron, none of whom were [ever?] members of the Jazz Messengers? At least Draper had a McLean connection.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 Isn't that picture of Art but in red and black on the cover of the Savoy release? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 The Savoy CD has the photo of Blakey, but reversed (so it appears that the hi hat is on the right side not the left - and you can't read the "Jazz Messengers" on the bass drum), and with everything else from the cover removed. The Savoy Jazz LP (Mirage) was part of a trilogy of album covers that had a photo of a face (Blakey) in a circular window. Mingus and Kenny Clarke were the others. Of all of the ones I've seen, the Elektra stereo is by far the best cover. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted September 8, 2004 Report Share Posted September 8, 2004 Of all of the ones I've seen, the Elektra stereo is by far the best cover. I have the mono Elektra cover, same as stereo without the sticker. It looks even better B-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted September 8, 2004 Report Share Posted September 8, 2004 Is 'Study In Rhythm' a drum solo, or a quintet track (in which case I'll have to add it to my list of missing McLean tracks)? Thanks, Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted September 8, 2004 Report Share Posted September 8, 2004 The Savoy Jazz LP (Mirage) was part of a trilogy of album covers that had a photo of a face (Blakey) in a circular window. Mingus and Kenny Clarke were the others In addition to this "trilogy" I have others in this format - Joe Turner, Dexter & Wardell and the 2nd volume of Changing Face of Harlem. The three I mentioned are doubles though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fenohr Posted September 9, 2004 Report Share Posted September 9, 2004 Bert Study In Rhythm is a drum solo, but the rest of the guys are banging on cowbell's and such. So i guess it's going to depend on just how much of a Jackie completest you want to be. It might be his only cowbell recording. Just yankin your chain Bert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted September 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2004 The Savoy CD has the photo of Blakey, but reversed (so it appears that the hi hat is on the right side not the left - and you can't read the "Jazz Messengers" on the bass drum), and with everything else from the cover removed. The Savoy Jazz LP (Mirage) was part of a trilogy of album covers that had a photo of a face (Blakey) in a circular window. Mingus and Kenny Clarke were the others. Of all of the ones I've seen, the Elektra stereo is by far the best cover. Mike Michael, are you talking about the Midnight Session? My Mono Savoy has the same cover as the cd. Mighty uninteresting art, imo. But a decent session. I guess they had to turn it out pretty fast. When did Savoy buy the rights from Elektra? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted September 9, 2004 Report Share Posted September 9, 2004 I believe Jackie also plays cowbell on 'Night In Tunisia' and 'Ritual'. As was pointed out on another thread on another topic, you can never have too much cowbell! Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fenohr Posted September 9, 2004 Report Share Posted September 9, 2004 Careful what you wish for Bertrand. If Joel Doran see's this thread, we are sure to be getting Cowbell Jazz For A Rainy Afternoon Vol's 1-10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Pusey Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 Dmitry, Elektra is at least as old as 1952, when it released Jean Ritchies first dulcimer album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Did some more research on this one. Bought a copy of the Savoy Jazz/Atlantic CD of Reflections Of Buhaina (9879-2 from 2000). The old Savoy Jazz/Denon CD of Midnight Session (SV-0145 from 1991) actually has BOTH Reflections of Buhaina AND Study in Rhythm on it. They just didn't make a separate track so Reflections of Buhaina is 10:58 instead of 6:44, which is the correct length. The Savoy Jazz/Atlantic CD makes these separate tracks (6:44/4:12). So, I'm a little bummed not to hear anything that I hadn't already, but it does help clear up the Messengers mess. Still need to hear the Vogue CD which Bruyninckx claims has an alternative take of Reflections of Buhaina. I wonder if those with other issues of this material could check the timings on their copies to confirm what is or isn't there. BTW, this is why including track timings in discographies is a useful thing. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 So, I'm a little bummed not to hear anything that I hadn't already, but it does help clear up the Messengers mess I had the exact opposite reaction. I was relieved I had something I thought was missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Well, it would have been nice NOT to have bought the stupid thing - especially since it has only four tracks of the Bill Hardman session that I've already got on Savoy Jazz LP. BTW, the 2000 CD is 63 minutes - goddamn Orrin 'the butcher of Berkeley' Keepnews could have added nearly 17 more minutes - grrrrrr. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 Mike, I was talking/typing about the Denon/Savoy disc. Never bothered with the other one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 (edited) You don't find it odd that they do only the tunes by Gigi Gryce, Ray Draper and Mal Waldron, none of whom were [ever?] members of the Jazz Messengers? At least Draper had a McLean connection.. ... and Waldron too, on some McLean LPs Draper was on! Gigi Gryce recorded with Blakey in 1954 under the drummer's leadership (EmArcy) - you can always take a look at Mike Fitzgerald's fabulous Messengers Chronology ...... (link) Edited November 13, 2004 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 BTW, this is why including track timings in discographies is a useful thing. Convinced! As soon as I have the time and a new computer next year I will hammer all my stuff ino Brian ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 Blakey was not a composer. Initially Silver, Mobley and Dorham provided music for the band. After they left Bu went outside for material. The compositional focus did not reappear until Golson was in the band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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