ejp626 Posted September 8, 2004 Report Posted September 8, 2004 I remember on the board, we were discussing Johnny Griffin and Wynton Kelly's debut recordings, which are impressive, but are both quartet recordings (both Griffin and Kelly are on each other's debuts). I just picked up Blue Mitchell's Blue 6 on Riverside, which I am nominating as the debut album with the most impressive line-up: Blue Mitchell, Wynton Kelly, Johnny Griffin, Wilbur Ware, Curtis Fuller and Philly Joe Jones. I'm about to spin it now. Any other nominees? Quote
jazzbo Posted September 8, 2004 Report Posted September 8, 2004 The Cannonball on Savoy . . . ."Presenting Cannonball Adderley". . .okay maybe it is really a Kenny Clarke outfit, but it's been mostly billed as by Cannon as far as I can tell. . . Nat Adderley (cor) Donald Byrd (tp) Cannonball Adderley (as) Jerome Richardson (ts, fl -1/3,6/11) Horace Silver (p) Paul Chambers (b) Kenny Clarke (d) NYC, June 28, 1955 Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted September 8, 2004 Report Posted September 8, 2004 A modest suggestion: Can we limit this to albums by leaders who recorded minimally as sidemen prior to their debut album as a leader?? There's plenty of albums by guys who did LOTS of sideman work, before ever getting to lead. I think the key is to find the debut albums where the leader had only ever recorded maybe two or three times before as a sideman (5 times at most!!) ----- where the line-up of the debut was particularly impressive. Quote
jazzbo Posted September 8, 2004 Report Posted September 8, 2004 Okay. . . mine still qualifies! Quote
brownie Posted September 8, 2004 Report Posted September 8, 2004 Do these qualify? I still remember the thrill of hearing John Coltrane's debut album - or at least the first one to appear under his name - 'Coltrane' (Prestige 7105) back in the late fifties. That came out shortly before BN's 'Blue Train'. Also Albert Ayler's first one on ESP: 'Spiritual Unity' which I heard before catching up on his earlier albums on BirdNorte and Debut; Mindblowers, both! Quote
Shawn Posted September 8, 2004 Report Posted September 8, 2004 Hank Mobley's Blue Note debut with Silver/Watkins/Blakey Quote
bertrand Posted September 8, 2004 Report Posted September 8, 2004 Introducing Wayne Shorter on Vee-Jay: Morgan/Kelly/Chambers/Cobb (i.e. Lee Morgan + Miles rhythm section). Bertrand. Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted September 8, 2004 Report Posted September 8, 2004 Griffin and Kelly were not on their respective debut recordings. Quote
ejp626 Posted September 8, 2004 Author Report Posted September 8, 2004 Griffin and Kelly were not on their respective debut recordings. I am counting Introducing Johnny Griffin as Griffin's debut rather than J.G. on Argo, and Introducing Johnny Griffin does have Kelly on it. However, I thought Kelly's New Faces, New Sounds had Griffin on it. This does not appear to be the case, but I shall claim that AMG led me to this error. Upon consulting a better discography, it appears Griffin never appears on any of Kelly's dates as a leader, though of course many were trio sessions. Quote
Alon Marcus Posted September 8, 2004 Report Posted September 8, 2004 The most impressive line up that i have seen on a debut album (I'm not sure it meets the criteria of Rooster Ties) is Joshua Redman's "Wish". Half of the legendary Ornette quartet: Charlie Haden and Billy Higins; probably the most well known jazz guitarist for today: Pat Metheny. Quote
Big Wheel Posted September 8, 2004 Report Posted September 8, 2004 Except WISH wasn't a debut album either. Joshua had at least the self-titled album out on WB before it. Quote
Alon Marcus Posted September 8, 2004 Report Posted September 8, 2004 Big Wheel Posted on Sep 8 2004, 04:12 PM Except WISH wasn't a debut album either. Joshua had at least the self-titled album out on WB before it. Yes you are right, sorry, my mistake. Quote
Michael Fitzgerald Posted September 9, 2004 Report Posted September 9, 2004 Paul Bley - Charles Mingus - Art Blakey Introducing Paul Bley, 1953 Debut Records. Mike Quote
Jazzmoose Posted September 9, 2004 Report Posted September 9, 2004 (edited) At the risk of being pelted with rotten vegetables and rancid fish...how 'bout Wynton's debut? ----------------------------------------- edited to point out the obvious; I don't mean Kelly... And this assumes you're comparing sidemen, not the leader... Edited September 9, 2004 by Jazzmoose Quote
Big Wheel Posted September 9, 2004 Report Posted September 9, 2004 Nobody's mentioned Herbie's Takin' Off yet? Dex, Higgins, and Freddie don't hurt... Joe Henderson's Page One is pretty high up there too with McCoy and Elvin. Quote
Big Wheel Posted September 9, 2004 Report Posted September 9, 2004 What was Kenny Burrell's first record? Quote
mikeweil Posted September 9, 2004 Report Posted September 9, 2004 Chronologically, it was a Blue Note session with Tommy Flanagan, Oscar Pettiford and Shadow Wilson, with Frank Foster on some tracks, part of which was released on Kenny Burrell Vol.2. The first issued was the Prestige with Cecil Payne, Elvin Jones and I don't remember who else. The first Blue Note LP had Kenny Clarke, Tommy Flanagan, Paul Chambers and Candido Camero. All great ... First Burrell sideman date was with Gillespie on DeeGee, IIRC, with Coltrane in the band ... Quote
Michael Fitzgerald Posted September 9, 2004 Report Posted September 9, 2004 There's an earlier (?) session for what is, I assume, a small local Detroit label: J-V-B by Kenny Burrell and the Four Sharps (probable personnel is Yusef Lateef, Tommy Flanagan, Billie Burrell or Alvin Jackson (b), Elvin Jones or Hindai Butts (d). (Not too shabby personnel-wise right there.) Date is c. 1950. Anyone ever seen or heard? Mike Quote
Dan Gould Posted September 9, 2004 Report Posted September 9, 2004 (edited) There's an earlier (?) session for what is, I assume, a small local Detroit label: J-V-B by Kenny Burrell and the Four Sharps (probable personnel is Yusef Lateef, Tommy Flanagan, Billie Burrell or Alvin Jackson (b), Elvin Jones or Hindai Butts (d). (Not too shabby personnel-wise right there.) Date is c. 1950. Anyone ever seen or heard? Mike Mike, are you sure about your dates? In a footnote to this article, written by Jim Gallert and Lars Bjorn, I found this: 37 Interestingly, Kenny Burrell recorded for JVB in 1957 using the name “Kenny Burrell and his Four Sharps”. Interesting, also, is a mention in the article that there's an upcoming Uptown records release: Most of his (Willie Anderson's) recordings will be included in a forthcoming CD compilation on Uptown Records – Detroit Jazz Before Motown, 1945–53: Rare and previously unissued recordingsfeaturing Wardell Gray, Barry Harris, Tommy Flanagan, Kenny Burrell, Willie Anderson and others. Maybe that Burrell material is part of it? Maybe Chuck has some inside info? Edited September 9, 2004 by Dan Gould Quote
Michael Fitzgerald Posted September 9, 2004 Report Posted September 9, 2004 My source was the error-ridden Tom Lord CD-ROM - certainly could be wrong, but the problems are deeper. The identical entry appears in the CD-ROM by Walter Bruyninckx (source of most of Lord's information). Haven't checked Jepsen or Raben. Wonder if Gallert & Bjorn have seen/heard this. BTW, actually the entry says Al Jackson (b) but I believe this should be Alvin, the brother of Milt Jackson, who recorded in Detroit in 1948 (with Elvin). 1950 is way early for some of those guys (no recorded Flanagan until 1956), but others did do things in the late 1940s. It seems odd to have that personnel in Detroit in 1957. Wasn't just about everyone listed in NYC by then? Flanagan and Elvin were with J.J. Johnson, Lateef was doing the Savoy records, and Burrell was signed to Prestige. New Uptown CD sounds like another winner. Mike Quote
Dan Gould Posted September 9, 2004 Report Posted September 9, 2004 I checked with a Detroit record dealer-don't know what his source was, but he identified it as J-V-B 58, but with only two tunes, Kenny's Sound and My Funny Valentine, so maybe it was a 45? [Mike, while I have your attention, did you see the ebay listing that had another test pressing of some obscure Transition album, with two different tunes than the ones you list? There was a posting in that Transition thread, but I don't know if you saw it or not and maybe updated your info ...] Quote
jazzbo Posted September 9, 2004 Report Posted September 9, 2004 (edited) One more wrinkle: I think I am remembering correclty that some of the Savoy Lateefs were actually field trips for Yusef and the working band, or recorded when they were in NY for gigs but they were still based in Detroit. . . . Edited September 9, 2004 by jazzbo Quote
catesta Posted September 9, 2004 Report Posted September 9, 2004 How about Tina Brooks "Minor Move"? Brooks w/Lee Morgan, Sonny Clark, Doug Watkins, and Art Blakey. Quote
BeBop Posted September 9, 2004 Report Posted September 9, 2004 Unfortunately, I don't have a 'live' example in my head, and my research abilities are limited as I'm traveling, but it seems like some of the Young Lions of the late 1980s and 1990s had some mighty impressive sidemen/women along on their first dates. For me, it always seemed like a symbiotic relationship - old masters who might have been hard pressed to find dates as leaders as the Young Lions stole the limelight - at least for that brief period. Some of the YLs were, of course, former Messengers, which helped the connections. Can anyone help me out with a specific example or two? Harrison? Blanchard? Watson? Hollyday? Harper? Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted September 9, 2004 Report Posted September 9, 2004 I checked with a Detroit record dealer-don't know what his source was, but he identified it as J-V-B 58, but with only two tunes, Kenny's Sound and My Funny Valentine, so maybe it was a 45? [Mike, while I have your attention, did you see the ebay listing that had another test pressing of some obscure Transition album, with two different tunes than the ones you list? There was a posting in that Transition thread, but I don't know if you saw it or not and maybe updated your info ...] It was a single. J-V-B was one of dozens of labels issued by Joe Von Battle. He was a legend of late '40s/early '50s blues and r&b recordings. He recorded tons of early John Lee Hooker stuff that was released on many labels such as Modern, Crown, King, Savoy, Specialty, etc. A Google of his name should turn up a bunch of "hits". Quote
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