My Funny Valentine - the Miles Davis album

[Scott Dolan]

But Guy, isn't that like saying the Coltrane Quartet wasn't playing as aggressively in 1962 as they were in 1965?

That rhythm section was very young in '64, and just starting to get into a groove. Which I feel became a bit easier for them to do, as far as stretching out, once Shorter came on board.

Hell, they pushed Coleman to have a career night! I never quite heard him play like he did that night.

[king ubu]

Miles bought his first Ferrari around 1958.

That settles the voodoo part, I guess.

Amazing what crap some folks consider to be hip ... MD the god of speed-metal-trash-jazz ... too bad he did go electric (Judas?) and that the mix didn't strive to include bearded-soft-folk or else Miles could be reinvented as the uber-deity of today's vegan-urban hipsters.

Hell, they pushed Coleman to have a career night! I never quite heard him play like he did that night.

[mjzee]

According to Miles's autobiography, IIRC, only Coleman complained about not getting paid.

[king ubu]

Thought I read that all the young guys complained since they weren't rich in any way and Miles hadn't told them beforehand. Would make sense, but what do I know ... anyway, no matter what the circumstances, the music played that night is magic - and indeed it was the first Coleman I ever heard, and I'm pretty sure it remains the best.

[Scott Dolan]

Been many moons since I read Miles' "autobiography", but I also recall that everyone was pissed at Miles. Both because he never even discussed it with them, and the younger guys weren't exactly rolling in dough at the time.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Scott Dolan

[BFrank]

I know those two albums were a mix of tunes from both sets. I just couldn't remember specifically if the reviewer got it wrong. The liner notes in the Seven Steps box are very clear about which tunes were played when.

Also in the Seven Steps liners, Bob Blumenthal talks about the band playing for free: "Words were exchanged between the trumpeter and more than one member of the band on the subject of money before the quintet took the stage."

I agree that the comment about "speed-metal, punk, thrash-jazz" is ridiculous.

[Dave Garrett]

Miles bought his first Ferrari around 1958.

Does someone have a list of which Ferraris (no Maseratis or Lamborginis?) Miles owned? Inquiring minds want to know if they somehow equate with what he was playing at the time...

The one in the pic Lon posted is a 1958 250GT California Spyder.

The others that I'm aware of:

1963-64 250GT Berlinetta Lusso

1967 275GTB/4

308GTSi (1977-79?)

Pics of Miles and his 275:

http://jakescarworld.blogspot.com/2013/01/miles-davis-1967-ferrari-275-gtb4.html

Additional info:

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/vintage-thru-365-gtc4-sponsored-vintage-driving-machines/103918-miles-davis%92-ferrari.html

I like to think that he was recording Sorcerer, Nefertiti, Miles in the Sky, and Filles de Kilimanjaro while he owned the 275. If ever there was a car that would inspire its owner, a four-cam 275 would be the one.

[Guy Berger]

But Guy, isn't that like saying the Coltrane Quartet wasn't playing as aggressively in 1962 as they were in 1965?

That rhythm section was very young in '64, and just starting to get into a groove. Which I feel became a bit easier for them to do, as far as stretching out, once Shorter came on board.

Hell, they pushed Coleman to have a career night! I never quite heard him play like he did that night.

Scott, not sure we're really disagreeing that much. The only thing I am getting at is that these guys played a lot of live gigs and, based on the recorded evidence from 1963 through 1967, did so at an extremely high level pretty much all the time. Within that context, what made the 2/12/64 concert special was not that these guys played a lot better than they usually did on this specific night, but that it was the only opportunity for many listeners to hear them in action. Maybe if Columbia had recorded & released the May 1966 Portland concert or the November 1967 Paris concert to a broad audience, those would be the concerts we'd all be swooning over.

[JSngry]

It's like everybody's forgotten about In Europe or something. I like that one a lot more than either of the Philharmonic Hall albums, individually or collectively. In fact Four & More tends to bore me, relatively speaking...too much of a good thing, perhaps (and definite overexposure due to years of innumerable Tony Wannabees insisting on rocking it on roadtrips...YIKES!).

But that In Europe set (and it's companion bootleg), that stuff is fresh there, and just as loose, maybe looser. And it's a longass LP too, over an hour on just two sides, not too much, just right, you get all you came for. Value for your jazz entertainment dollar, and guaranteed - GUARANTEED - high fidelity.

I realize I'm in the minority on this, but oh well, hey, too late to turn back now. Submitted for your consideration and all that...better cover, too, especially in mono.

[Chuck Nessa]

I'm with Jim on this.

[GA Russell]

Jim, is that In Europe album included in the Seven Steps box?

[jeffcrom]

Jim, is that In Europe album included in the Seven Steps box?

I'm not Jim, but yes, it is.

[colinmce]

I also agree totally. On a good day, In Europe is my favorite Miles album. The introduction of the band >>> "Autumn Leaves" is one of the most thrilling things I have ever heard.

And not to go too far in the other direction, but I'm not terribly enthusiastic about the Philharmonic albums, either. Very strong, of course, but I'm least likely to pick one of those up when I want to hear that band.

Edited February 14, 2014 by colinmce

[JSngry]

Yes, GA - Not just that album, but the entire set, much of the 2nd and all of the 3rd disc.

I usually enjoy full sets, but in this case, I think the LP is my preferred presentation. Thirty minutes of that particular band at a time is neither too much nor too little, it's just right. As much as I like George Coleman, he had a ceiling that was relatively easily reached (relative to the band as a whole), as did every Miles tenor player after Trane & before Sam Rivers/Wayne, so...it's gonna go where it goes and then stop, if you know what I mean.

Again, I love George Coleman, but I think his playing strengthened quite a bit after this time in terms of facility and structure alike (his is very much a "change-running" style, and as he matured, he found more ways to run the changes, not that he was any kind of a slouch here!...but Herbie said it kinda bugged him how George would be playing patterns and shit verbatim out of Slonimsky, so that's the environment of that band, uber-facility was just the starting point, not just enough to know it, but to know it and then grow it), and also think that, important a transitional holder of that chair as he was, his "in between" quality (more open an approach than those who held the chair before him, but no indication that it was ever going to expand past that, he'd deepen his facility over time, but not really his impetus) all but guaranteed his eventual (relatively quick, actually) obsolescence in that particular environment. I also think that the best record he made during these years was Maiden Voyage.

This band is to the Wayne era what the Mobley band was to the Trane era, just in the reverse chronology, one going, the other coming. I'd not be without any of it, though, because it's all real life.

[GA Russell]

Thanks, Jeff and Jim!

It's been a long time since I've gone to that box. I'll have to revisit it.

[JSngry]

You might also enjoy a thing on JMY called Cote Blues, which is recordings from the band's other gigs at the same festival. It's a bootleg, so no links allowed!

[jeffcrom]

You might also enjoy a thing on JMY called Cote Blues, which is recordings from the band's other gigs at the same festival. It's a bootleg, so no links allowed!

Yeah, that's a pretty great CD. No idea how hard or easy it might be to find these days.

[BFrank]

Jim, is that In Europe album included in the Seven Steps box?

Yes, but 'enhanced' with complete/unedited versions of "Autumn Leaves", "Joshua" and "All of You" - and previously unissued "Introduction", "Bye Bye Blackbird" and "The Theme".

This is a very good box, BTW. You also get Tokyo (w/Sam Rivers), Berlin (one of Wayne's first gigs), Seven Steps to Heaven and Quiet Nights.

[sidewinder]

I also agree totally. On a good day, In Europe is my favorite Miles album. The introduction of the band >>> "Autumn Leaves" is one of the most thrilling things I have ever heard.

The first 10 seconds or so of 'Autumn Leaves' is absolutely sublime. Never fails to raise the hairs on the back of my neck ! What it must have been like to witness in person (paging Brownie?) I can only imagine.

Edited February 14, 2014 by sidewinder

[erwbol]

You might also enjoy a thing on JMY called Cote Blues, which is recordings from the band's other gigs at the same festival. It's a bootleg, so no links allowed!

Yeah, that's a pretty great CD. No idea how hard or easy it might be to find these days.

Since it's a bootleg, you could just as easily download it from that torrent site. Côte Blues (JMY 1010-2) contains material from 26 & 28 July 1963 (the official release being from the 27th).

Edited February 14, 2014 by erwbol

[king ubu]

Hm, I was never hooked by the Antibes material in a way I was by the 1964 concert ... might be my listener's biography getting in the way here.

[Scott Dolan]

But Guy, isn't that like saying the Coltrane Quartet wasn't playing as aggressively in 1962 as they were in 1965?

That rhythm section was very young in '64, and just starting to get into a groove. Which I feel became a bit easier for them to do, as far as stretching out, once Shorter came on board.

Hell, they pushed Coleman to have a career night! I never quite heard him play like he did that night.

Scott, not sure we're really disagreeing that much. The only thing I am getting at is that these guys played a lot of live gigs and, based on the recorded evidence from 1963 through 1967, did so at an extremely high level pretty much all the time. Within that context, what made the 2/12/64 concert special was not that these guys played a lot better than they usually did on this specific night, but that it was the only opportunity for many listeners to hear them in action. Maybe if Columbia had recorded & released the May 1966 Portland concert or the November 1967 Paris concert to a broad audience, those would be the concerts we'd all be swooning over.

Perhaps.

But why couldn't we also still swoon over this outstanding date?

If it helps, I actually purchased the Plugged Nickel Box at least a year or two before I picked up this date. I've always liked both equally, to be honest.

[jazzbo]

But Guy, isn't that like saying the Coltrane Quartet wasn't playing as aggressively in 1962 as they were in 1965?

That rhythm section was very young in '64, and just starting to get into a groove. Which I feel became a bit easier for them to do, as far as stretching out, once Shorter came on board.

Hell, they pushed Coleman to have a career night! I never quite heard him play like he did that night.

Scott, not sure we're really disagreeing that much. The only thing I am getting at is that these guys played a lot of live gigs and, based on the recorded evidence from 1963 through 1967, did so at an extremely high level pretty much all the time. Within that context, what made the 2/12/64 concert special was not that these guys played a lot better than they usually did on this specific night, but that it was the only opportunity for many listeners to hear them in action. Maybe if Columbia had recorded & released the May 1966 Portland concert or the November 1967 Paris concert to a broad audience, those would be the concerts we'd all be swooning over.

Perhaps.

But why couldn't we also still swoon over this outstanding date?

If it helps, I actually purchased the Plugged Nickel Box at least a year or two before I picked up this date. I've always liked both equally, to be honest.

I consider too that this was Philharmonic Hall, and a prestigious event for a good cause, a good reason to record and release these performances. And by splitting them into two different relesaes with different themes (ballads, cookers) they got two slabs from the same source, a good thing for both the label and the artist, and one that has been paying off ever since in sales.

On top of that, Miles was making new directions in the studio, not that much of which directly as far as original tunes and arrangements made it into his live act. So Miles could have two sort of things going: comfortable, familiar stuff for both the band and the audience live, and pioneering, stretching material in the studio to craft albums that get talked about. Right after these lps satisfied that "lets get live Miles on record" need the focus seemed to move towards these new directions in the studio, and those are primarily why his work has endured.

These two lps do stand as a great portrait of the early sixties live shows, they were timed just right and placed in the "oeuvre" just right to be the lauded and staple features they have become. Just my view of them.

Edited February 14, 2014 by jazzbo

[Mark Stryker]

A few quick thoughts: I agree that "In Europe" is underrated but as a one-stop for this era I still prefer "My Funny Valentine." There's nothing that compares to the perfection and equilibrium achieved on "Stella By Starlight" -- Miles' drama/control/pacing! Herbie's comping/harmony/touch! The Trio's telepathy! George Coleman's melodic improvising!-- someone earlier mentioned this was a career night for Coleman and certainly that solo on "Stella" is off-the-chart inspired in his idiom. Don't get no better than that. "All of You" (especially Herbie's unbelievable tag in his solo) is right up there too.

Never warmed to "Four and More" (too hectic) and agree that the sequencing of "My Funny Valentine" is an example of producers making the record experience better than the concert.

The whole everyone-was-pissed thing, miserable experience, thrash-metal result is just so much bullshit. Yes, the cats were pissed when they found out that they were expected to play for free (without being asked and after a several week layoff), and Ron Carter has written that he started to pack up his instrument, before Miles said, "OK, how much do you want?" Carter writes that they told Miles it wasn't the amount but the principle. So Miles agrees to pay everyone (no amount is specified) and the cats go on knowing they're going to get a taste. Could the pre-show drama have amped up everyone's antennae and helped lead to greater risk taking? Of course. Were they taking their aggression out at Miles through the music? Um, no way. They played how they always played but better. What's more remarkable to me is that I've read where the cats had trouble hearing each other onstage -- pre-monitors, of course -- so the telepathy and absolute precision in the context of breaking up the time and not getting sloppy is incredible.

I don't recall seeing/hearing Herbie dogging Coleman in print for being a lick player. Anybody got a reference? I do very much recall Tony Williams disliking the way George played for those same reasons -- too safe, pattern-oriented, clichéd, etc. Maybe Herbie didn't like it either, but if he had a big issue it's then hard to understand how he ended up on "Maiden Voyage." Come to think of it: Has it ever been explained why George is on that record instead of Wayne?

Herbie of course is as spontaneous a soloist as they come, but he was not above stealing directly from Nicolas Slonimsky's "Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns." Herbie once pointed out to me that there's a moment in his solo on "Driftin'" from "Takin' Off" where there he plays one of the scales verbatim. You can hear it at the 3:42 mark on the track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZeakh2yIOI

Coda: Here's a transcription of Herbie's solo on "All of You." Wow.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B41fDOJWTOV0NjExM2QyZTctNzNiNC00Y2M1LTgzY2QtOGE0MmM4OTY5ODNl/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1

Edited February 14, 2014 by Mark Stryker

[JSngry]

I don't recall seeing/hearing Herbie dogging Coleman in print for being a lick player. Anybody got a reference?

IIRC, you can find it in one of the two-part "Piano Roundtable" pieces in DownBeat, very early 1970s. It's a four-way between Herbie, Roger Kellaway, Joe Sample & Toshiko. Herbie wasn't really dissing George, not hardcore or anything, he was just questioning if verbatim usage of study patterns was the desired end of things, and he used George as an example. This was about a decade after they played together, so no doubt, Herbie's perception then had probably evolved from where it was in real time.

Also, a funny moment in there, Roger Kellaway is jizzing about Messiaen, and finally says to Toshiko something like you GOTTA hear Messiaen, I KNOW that you'll LOVE Messian, just gushing effusively as if oh babybaby let me show you where it's AT, to which Toshiko simply replies, "How do you know that?", which not being in the room, who knows how that was delivered, but when read on paper, is like instant spit take for me, ya' know?

About Coleman, though, I think he found his true voice while playing in Elvin's bands, and that what he found during that time, he brought back to more "traditional" repertoire. Just how it strikes me. But if you knw that live Elvin side on Enja, the trio with Wilbur Little (and Hannibal added for one tune), hey, now that's some fully formed George Coleman. Full speed ahead, cap'n!