tranemonk Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 okay so excuse me if this topic has been covered already... but I'm over at allaboutjazz checking out their bulletin board and this guy posts a note that he just paid $900 on e-bay for the Mosaic OOP Nat King Cole. So I read the thread and by the end of it I'm just ticked off.... here's the URL if you are so inclined.... http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread.php?t=8054 I'm sorry but this guy is foolish but more importantly I have a BIG ethical problem with people who buy Mosaics primarily to speculate about their price and sell them on e-bay to make an individual profit. Not only are they driving up the price of OOP Mosaics but they are taking 1 of 5,000 copies (at least) from someone who really wants the music! People learn about jazz, Mosaic and specific artists at different points in time and it p**ses me off when people deny someone else the right to experience a particular musician through Mosaic. I mean I can kind of understand a jazz fan who once in a (very) long while decides they didn't like a set and tries to sell it. But it seems to me that there are people out there - who this is what they do! Can I get a little feedback here? Am I overreacting? Me.... I keep all the Mosaics I have because in 5 years I may play a set that I didn't like and find out that I love the stuff. It's about the music and your personal relationship with the music.... Sorry if I'm offending any members of the Board... but I just have an ISSUE with this.... GROWL>>>>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 I agree - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BbM7 Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Sorry, as a capitalist and free market-advocate, I respectfully disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 I'm sorry but I don't see the issue. How is the seller of this particular set depriving someone of it. He got into the hands of someone who wants it. Now, if you're pissed off that it cost that much, that's just life. There are some people out there who have money to burn. Several of my mosaics came from ebay and I wouldn't have gotten them but for that. I've never purchased a mosaic with the idea of making a profit but I know that if I don't like it, I can resell it and do ok. That's just the way it it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 (edited) no such thing as a free market. If it was a free market the Mosaic would be available from lots of people at competetive prices. This is a limited edition, CLOSED market. If it was a free market you and I could just make copies at will and sell them, which we can't. This market has many restrictions, copyright being among them. And there's a difference between reasonable profit and greed - and this is greed - Edited February 9, 2005 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 That's the way the world turns, folks. Get used to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Whose hands was the set kept out of and why didn't they buy it while it was in print? It's not like Mosaic's go out of print in two weeks or something; more like two years. I would never 'speculate' in Mosaics' myself, but I see no great moral dilemma here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crookednumbers Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 I still regret that I passed on buying the Nat King Cole Mosaic CD box when it came through the record store I was working at used for $150. And that was before the 30% employee discount! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 That's the way the world turns, folks. Get used to it. Yes, Jim, but I don´t like it this way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Whose hands was the set kept out of and why didn't they buy it while it was in print? ... ... in my particular case, because I wasn´t aware of them when many of those sets went OOP. Now I regret it. But my wife´s happy with it! B-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Most Mosaics, at least these days, seem to be around for five years or so. The "limited edition" nature of them is part of the appeal as well as a commercial necessity for the licensing of the music. Think of it another way - if these weren't available occassionally on Ebay and if everyone was a "true collector" who never sold their copy (whether, it seems, they actually like it or not) then no copies would ever be available for purchase. This isn't even an issue. Like Jim, it's the way of the world... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tranemonk Posted February 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Whose hands was the set kept out of and why didn't they buy it while it was in print? ... ... in my particular case, because I wasn´t aware of them when many of those sets went OOP. Now I regret it. But my wife´s happy with it! B-) this is kind of my point... I do have a problem with someone whose primary INTENT is to make a profit off of Mosaic's (and the artist's) work. At the same time, people "find" Mosaics at different points in time... I didn't learn about until about 10 years and I missed out on several good sets... I get that this is capitalism..... That doesn't mean I have to like it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereojack Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Most items sold on Ebay are sold by auction. This means that there was more than one person willing to pay a premium for this item. I don't see how you can label a dealer as greedy just because he puts an item up for sale and the price reaches $900. The buyers determine the prices in an auction. The fact that this went for a lot of money indicates that this is what the set is worth, like it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christiern Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 I wonder who has the Cole box that was stolen from me. Well, I actually still have the box and pamphlet, they just took the CDs. BTW that goes for all my Mosaics, except the Stuff Smith. As for jacking up the price, I guess one can not blame a person for wanting to sell these things at the best price, but we all would rather see these releases in the hands of people who will enjoy the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 I get that this is capitalism..... That doesn't mean I have to like it.... But how does this make it an "ethical" problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 GREED is an ethical issue - that's how - GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED - everything else is music - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron S Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 I get that this is capitalism..... That doesn't mean I have to like it.... Making statements like that, you're lucky this isn't the early 1950's. Then again, if it WAS, just think of all the great live jazz shows we'd be seeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron S Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 GREED is an ethical issue - that's how - GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREEDÂ GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREEDÂ GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREEDÂ GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREEDÂ GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREEDÂ GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREEDÂ GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREEDÂ - everything else is music - I think you missed one "GREED", but maybe I counted wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Not only are they driving up the price of OOP Mosaics but they are taking 1 of 5,000 copies (at least) from someone who really wants the music! I think most Mosaics don't sell to their 100% capacity, i.e. 5,000 or 7,000 or whatever # of copies. In many cases their licensing agreements run out before they get to even print most of them. So the contention that someone who buys one or more Mosaics to resell them later on is depriving someone else is kind of absurd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 I should point out that the Cole box is a) huge and b) rare as hen's teeth. Some Mosaic's fetch hugely inflated prices, but I would be inclined to quibble less about that particular set. As a Socialist, I decry the Capitalist system that makes such abuses possible. As a future Social Studies teacher, I understand the law of supply and demand and recognize the inevitability (under this system) as such. But, like the man says, understanding it doesn't mean I have to like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BbM7 Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 no such thing as a free market. If it was a free market the Mosaic would be available from lots of people at competetive prices. This is a limited edition, CLOSED market. If it was a free market you and I could just make copies at will and sell them, which we can't. This market has many restrictions, copyright being among them. And there's a difference between reasonable profit and greed - and this is greed - The free market works even if there is only one of an item. Price is used as a rationing mechanism. Call it greed it you wish. But I would ask, who was greedier, the seller or the buyer? (Can greed manifest itself in material goods as easily as money? Certainly!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 (edited) well, philosophically we're starting to starting to exceed my intellectual capacity here. It's just that to me there is really no such thing as a free market. The market has many ties on it, many restrictions (like, as I mentioned, copyright which prevents me from simply reproducing the Mosaic box) - I just think that there are ethical standards of fairness and there is a not-so-fine line that can be crossed into greed. That line has been crossed here - no, not just crossed but stomped on and erased - oh, and here's that extra GREED - Edited February 9, 2005 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron S Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 As a Socialist, I decry the Capitalist system that makes such abuses possible. If it weren't for that same Capitalist system that encourages entrepreneurs to produce these sets so they can sell them for $16 or $17 per disc, we wouldn't even be having this discussion ('cause there'd be no Mosaics). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 This has to be the stupidest idea for a thread that I've seen here in a while. Whether or not you believe in a free market, the fact is that when there's a limited supply of something and a lot of people who want to buy it, that something is going to be very expensive. Should this seller have gone up to tranemonk and say "gee, would you like my Nat King Cole Mosaic for a nickel?" I don't think so. That would be slightly dumb. I'm sure very few people buy these for speculation because time and experience has shown that's very risky. If you want to lament about ebay prices, as the saying goes, "been there, done that." It is what it is and no use bitchin' about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son-of-a-Weizen Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 I wonder who has the Cole box that was stolen from me. Are you blind? They're dangling from the orange strips! That'll teach you to let Christo crash at your place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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