Miles Cellar Door Update

[catesta]

Tex, you wanna help some of these fellas out? The furriners I can sorta see being a little puzzled but even so... I dunno how much more obvious I coulda been but this is too weird/funny to just say now. (Catesta: we know, we know, we're talking real farmers.. when I get back, maybe we can do our Community Service together on the Queens County Farm. (There's a ton of taquerias in Queens now but nothing outstanding that I know about... best bet is head back to yr old 'hood, thru Glendale & then cut over to Bushwick, take the back way by Cypress Cemetary & cruise down Wyckoff, then go a few blocks over, check out the Knickerbocker scene... for pizza in Queens, it sounds TOTALLY fuckin' absurd I know but to go O'Neill's over in Maspeth. Hard as hell to find & who ever heard of genius pizza in an Irish surf & turf sports bar w/an OTB window but I swear it's true. You can thank me later, amigo. (Eat at Joe's in Ridgewood-- the little, old place on Forest closer to Myrtle, not the fake fancy new one further up-- too.)))

triple-parentheses, wow.

clem

texas ex-

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I"ve not scored any "real" Mexican since I've been back. I've even expanded my search to include Longisland.

I was at O'Neill's just a couple of weeks ago. I'll give the pizza a try next time I'm around there. I may even stop by on Saturday since I will be in Middle Village paying my respects at St. John Cemetery.

Well aware of Joe's, and yes it's gotta be the old one.

Good to see you back on the board.

[felser]

What are you guys bitching about?  It's just taking longer than expected for Vincent Wilburn to wipe out DeJohnette's drum track and record himself over it, that's all.

No big deal.  Patience is a virtue.

Bertrand.

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At least Wilburn doesn't have "My Sharona" on his resume, like the guy who Douglas used on the Hendrix reissues. To further open up a new audience for this release, they could wipe out Gary Bartz, replace his parts with Mindi Abair, and redo the cover. For that matter, Miles himself looked sort of spooky and haggard during this period. Better to wipe him out and replace with Jeremy Davenport. Wipe out Jarrett, and replace with, oh, David Benoit or someone. Get Stanley Clarke to redo the bass parts. And there you have it - "Miles Davis, the Complete Cellar Door Sessions - Remixed". Coming to a smooth jazz station near you.

[Ron S]

(Hmmmm . . . . . I wonder when would be a good time to catch some Rodcast? )

[7/4]

Does the CEO look like a mobster or what?

Yes.

[PHILLYQ]

This could be a horror movie title, "Waiting for the Cellar Door", with appropriate squeaky door sounds as our intrepid hero strives to get the 'Holy Grail' of that Miles period, dodging the Wilburn monster who attacks with sticks(and stickers).

[7/4]

This could be a horror movie title, "Waiting for the Cellar Door", with appropriate squeaky door sounds as our intrepid hero strives to get the 'Holy Grail'  of that Miles period, dodging the Wilburn monster who attacks with sticks(and stickers).

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[couw]

with evil Mr. UpTate in a supporting role...

[Guest Chaney]

~~~~~~~~~~

(Hmmmm . . . . . I wonder when would be a good time to catch some Rodcast? )

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Catching some Rodcast right now.

[Ron S]

Catching some Rodcast right now. 

indeed!

[alankin]

Legacy PR announced today a 12/26 release date.

Miles Davis – The Cellar Door Sessions 1970 – 6 CD box (Columbia/Legacy) Dec 27

(Just in time for the fifth night of Hanukah.)

Edited November 16, 2005 by alankin

[jazzbo]

Here's hoping.

[Free For All]

Legacy PR announced today a 12/26 release date. 

Here's hoping Vince doesn't decide to be....

[Ron S]

Legacy PR announced today a 12/26 release date.

* * * * * * * *

(Just in time for the fifth night of Hanukah.)

Second night--you must be looking at the wrong year.

[GregK]

how long before this is changed to sometime in the spring of 06??

[Claude]

I wonder if the current Sony XCP copyprotection disaster could create another reason for a delay. If the box set was pressed with XCP, Sony wouldn't want to release it that way. Tthey are now replacing XCPs in stores, even recalling them from buyers.

[ornette]

HMV (UK) online are now advising purchasers a release date of 6/02/05.

[dave9199]

Ingenious! Advertising a release date that's already passed so they'll never have to actually release it. I wish the makers of the top 40 would release cds this way.

[ghost of miles]

Just got an advance copy of this from a friendly rep.

[Gary]

There's an update on miles beyond

http://www.miles-beyond.com/news.htm

November

The latest news in the Cellar Door boxed set saga: a new release date has been set for December 17, though the 27th has also been mentioned. I'm still waiting for official confirmation from Sony Columbia, but given the events of the last months, that would hardly set things in stone. The problem remains the Miles Davis Estate, and mainly Miles's nephew, Vince Wilburn. A few weeks before the original release date last September he wanted the credits of Adam Holzman and Bob Belden changed from 'produced by' to 'compiled by.' Understandably, this was not something these two, or Sony, were happy about. Moreover, the Cellar Door set had been more than five years in the making, so the timing of the demand reeked of a hidden agenda.

When I asked one of my informants, who is very close to the fire, what's behind Wilburn's demand, he simply replied, 'God knows.' My own, entirely speculative, take on it is that Wilburn has a love/hate relationship with his uncle and his music. On the one hand he owes his entire income and reputation to his uncle (what noteworthy things has Wilburn done on his own since 1987?)—on the other Miles hurt Wilburn badly when he sacked him from his band in 1987. By all accounts Wilburn never fully recovered from this—see the story of The Last Word, the Warners boxed set that was repeatedly delayed and in the end torpedoed by the Estate, alledgedly with Wilburn at the controls. Why the rest of Miles's family, including his son Erin, puts up with Wilburn obstructing Miles releases nobody really knows.

Certainly Sony has been reluctant to put up with Wilburn's last-minute changes of heart, but while the company has the full rights to the recording and can do what it wants with it, the company apparently feels that it can't simply go against the wishes of the Estate. (That's not even talking about the physical threats that Wilburn is said to have made against some of those involved.)

Whatever way, initially a compromise was found, whereby a sticker would be added to the already printed boxed set, saying 'compiled by Bob Belden and Adam Holzman.' This led to the November 22 release date. Then Wilburn again threw, as it was put, a 'kibosh.' The exact nature of the new compromise that has led to the planned late December release date is unclear, but probably involves a fresh art work re-print.

Of course it's possible that the Estate will have another last-minute change of mind, which would spell the end of the Cellar Door. That would be very bad news indeed, for, as one informant told me, if the Cellar Door doesn't come out, it may well mean the end of any more new Miles Davis releases, and would almost certainly terminate the boxed sets series. So fingers crossed that common sense, and respect for Miles's music and legacy, prevail.

[danasgoodstuff]

Sony should just ignore Wilburn, if he's really behind all this shit.

[RDK]

It's funny how easy it is to side with the usually vilified record label when they want to put something out that we're all eager to hear, even if it goes against the wishes of the artist or the artist's estate.

I'm just sayin'...

[ghost of miles]

It's funny how easy it is to side with the usually vilified record label when they want to put something out that we're all eager to hear, even if it goes against the wishes of the artist or the artist's estate. 

I'm just sayin'... 

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Except that in this case the folks involved (Cuscuna, Belden, etc.) strike me as being more-than-sensitive to such wishes, and (in my reading, anyway) it seems clear that there are some underlying issues with the "aggrieved" party. Why did Wilburn wait this long (five years) to suddenly scotch the release? It's one thing if he were saying, "Miles would never want this released, he told me so," etc.... but we're getting borderline-insane nitpicking instead.

[JSngry]

Word has it that Wilburn has "social" issues involving race and "other things"...

Word also has it that he's being egged on in his antagonistical endeavors by another drummer who was fired by Miles, an "Astral Pirate" of sorts...

That's just Word. No claims of absolute truth or exclusive knowledge are being made.

[ejp626]

It's funny how easy it is to side with the usually vilified record label when they want to put something out that we're all eager to hear, even if it goes against the wishes of the artist or the artist's estate. 

I'm just sayin'...  

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Except that in this case the folks involved (Cuscuna, Belden, etc.) strike me as being more-than-sensitive to such wishes, and (in my reading, anyway) it seems clear that there are some underlying issues with the "aggrieved" party. Why did Wilburn wait this long (five years) to suddenly scotch the release? It's one thing if he were saying, "Miles would never want this released, he told me so," etc.... but we're getting borderline-insane nitpicking instead.

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Both good points. I suspect that as fans, we care more about getting the music than anything else, or Lonehill, Proper and others wouldn't be quite so successful. As a secondary consideration, most of us feel that musicians should be compensated fairly. And a few far-sighted souls remember that the music companies need some financial incentives to keep this going. What is so upsetting from a fan's perspective is an estate that goes off the rails and doesn't seem to really be representing the interests of the departed musician (and cutting off their own nose financially). Surely Miles wouldn't have waited 5 years to throw a spanner into this project. Either he would have approved it and gotten things to his satisfaction or he would have cancelled it.

I suppose we only really hear about the horror stories. Most estates appear to be far more reasonable (and even helpful) about getting unissued music out. Motivations are always different, and some estates perhaps err more on the side of he/she would have wanted this music out there and some are more on the side that the record label/the world didn't treat him/her with respect and now I'm going to insist on doing things my way. And unless it is an extremely valuable assett, record companies quickly pass on doing business with the difficult estates.

From my limited perspective, I certainly prefer the Monk/Coltrane type of estates where they make a concerted effort to get the music out, but clearly I don't know the inside story on any of this. I do know that I wish for long and prosperous careers for our remaining jazz masters, and that estates don't come into the picture until much later.

[dave9199]

Did Wilburn have any say over previous sets that were released? And if so, why were those not a problem (or were they)?

Oh, and Wilburn can also suck my dick.

Edited November 18, 2005 by dave9199