Herbie Hancock

[Degiorgio]

I wish we could see how Head Hunters was made. Listening to the way everything is layered, it's SO hard for me to imagine that most of that stuff (especially Chameleon and Sly) was laid down together with the whole band in a relatively low number of takes. Does anyone know how it was done?

this interview doesn't talk about HEADHUNTERS but Herbie goes into a little detail about how they approached CROSSINGS and SEXTANT:

http://www.cyndustries.com/synapse/synapse...=may1977&pic=24

[Chuck Nessa]

Wow.

So was it like the V/M contracts, one for jazz and one for commerical?

Yes, one of each. I'm not certain about the date but it was at a Jazz Times convention in DC. Billboard covered the new contract in a big way - first time and all that crap.

[Degiorgio]

if it was just a few years earlier maybe 1 covered V.S.O.P. and the other covered the commercial albums?

[Chuck Nessa]

if it was just a few years earlier maybe 1 covered V.S.O.P. and the other covered the commercial albums?

No the more I think about it, 1981 seems correct.

[rostasi]

I've never heard the Norman Connors albums listed above ("Norman Connors first 3 albums for Cobblestone"), so I can't speak about them.

So, anybody, how are the Norman Connors dates??

Looks like only the first one ("Dance of Magic") has ever been released on CD, in 1995 (at least according to the AMG).

Edit: The line-up on the first one certainly looks good...

Sorry I missed this thread last night...

"Dance of Magic" is another one of those LPs that goes in that thread about

recordings that got a real workout. It, and "Dark of Light," were released on CD

both as single CDs and as a 2 on 1 CD.

Side Two of "Dance..." is a favorite (except for the throwaway, "Give the Drummer Some").

"Blue" is a beautifully constructed and played piece written by Stanley Clarke

that's kind of a gentle, beautiful maze of instruments

that's held together by Arthur Webb's flute -

a "cloud of butterflies" feel without the new age connect.

Cecil McBee is strong on that track as well.

Cecil wrote "Morning Change" for the album which is another strong tune

where everyone really works well together.

It has a real tight, but not "manufactured" sound.

The title cut is a bit reminiscent of "Wisdom through Music" era Pharoah Sanders

and gives everyone a real workout with fine solos by Carlos Garnett,

Eddie Henderson, Gary Bartz and Herbie.

"Dark of Light" is not quite as good as the first album, but I'd considered it a three and half star

compared to a four and a half star for the 1st LP

and would recommend it if you can buy it as a "two-fer."

The title track is a bit like if you mixed a bit of Mwandishi with the Black Jazz label -

Dee Dee Bridgewater providing the "Jean Carn"-like vocals.

A pleasant version of the popular (for that time) Clarke tune "Butterfly Dreams."

"Black Lightnin'" tries to do too much and ultimately doesn't really go anywhere -

a kind of free improv version of the "Dance of Magic" cut.

Plus there's another throwaway cut of about 90 seconds called "Twilight Zone" -

which is where it should've stayed.

Anyone wanting to hear these, just PM me and I'll play it for you.

The original cover - never saw that other one:

Also:

...speaking of Herbie and "The Spook..." LP [which I was listening to again just last night(!) -

I think to Chuck's consternation] ... Keyboard magazine, in the 70's, released a flexidisc

with Herbie talking about the wonders of the Fender Rhodes piano, and on it he speaks about the

soundtrack that he was working on at the time for this new movie - which, of course, was "The Spook..."

An excerpt of the title tune plays and it's a real funkified groove...

later, the song is released and it's the song we now know as "Actual Proof" from "Thrust"!

[Degiorgio]

Hi Rod

I would agree with that assessment of the 2 Connors albums.... and Rooster - as you like the

Eddie Henderson's so much I think you would like Connors' 3rd album LOVE FROM THE SUN too. I've only ever seen this on Buddah actually - not Cobblestone like I first thought... it has another version of Herbie's track Revelation which is on REALIZATION.

The version on the Connors album is beautiful... lush intro featuring some great Herbie echoplex note-bending effects on the rhodes and wordless Jean Carn vocals....

Rod - I licensed the flexi-disc version of The Spook theme for a compilation I put together for BMG a few years back... but they messed up the transfer I'm still really desperate to find out if the original tapes to that soundtrack still exist. The flexi-version is so funky isn't it?! That shuffle funk intro is killer

Apologies to Chuck for the qualified nature of some of this post...

KD

Edited March 30, 2005 by Degiorgio

[JSngry]

Hmmmmm.....

Dusty Groove used to offer that The Spook Who Sat By the Door bootleg, and now it's not even listed as being out of stock. Can't find a mention of it anywhere there...

[rostasi]

Hi Rod

I would agree with that assessment of the 2 Connors albums.... and Rooster - as you like the

Eddie Henderson's so much I think you would like Connors' 3rd album LOVE FROM THE SUN too. I've only ever seen this on Buddah actually - not Cobblestone like I first thought... it has another version of Herbie's track Revelation which is on REALIZATION.

The version on the Connors album is beautiful... lush intro featuring some great Herbie echoplex note-bending effects on the rhodes and wordless Dee Dee Bridgewater vocals....

Rod - I licensed the flexi-disc version of The Spook theme for a compilation I put together for BMG a few years back... but they messed up the transfer  I'm still really desperate to find out if the original tapes to that soundtrack still exist. The flexi-version is so funky isn't it?! That shuffle funk intro is killer

Apologies to Chuck for the qualified nature of some of this post...

KD

I've heard some good things about "Love from...", but I don't remember what it sounds like now.

I still have that flexi around here somewhere. I made a cover for it soon afterwards, so it should still be in pretty good shape.

It's possible that the master tapes are out there and

a CD could show up someday at Dusty Groove, but it's a pretty short LP.

About 30 minutes or less, so maybe it could be paired with some

other funky blaxploitation serve-up.

You're right about the funky beginning, but you pretty much get that with "Actual Proof."

front:

back:

[mikeweil]

PS: I have heard all this stuff - got promos of most of it and gave it away. Not proud, just factual.

that's cool... I was 4-6 yrs old when these came out so its interesting for me to see how jazz fans received these albums at the time.

KD

I was 26 when Mwandishi was issued - I remember having a listen in the local record shop and being totally mesmerized by the first track and listening through all of the first side. After recovering - it was like waking up after trance - I bought the LP, went home, and played it several times. Same with Crossings when it came out. I am some years younger than Chuck, grew up on rock but turned to jazz in my late teens - maybe that's a factor. I found it great, and still do.

[Bill Nelson]

Yeah, the 'Mwandishi' LP smoked me thoroughly (and vice versa) when it first came out. I buzzed thru two copies prior to the first CD issue. Still got the DJ-only 7-inch promo w/ pic sleeve of 'Ostinato' b/w 'You'll Know When you Get There'.

Really jumped at both the Norman Connors on Buddah, thinking they'd be hot shit.

Kept 'em for a couple years, then had to admit they weren't happening, and unloaded them in '76. The first one was a notch better than the follow-up, but neither one really lit a fire -- like 'Ostinato'.

[Degiorgio]

Still got the DJ-only 7-inch promo w/ pic sleeve of 'Ostinato' b/w 'You'll Know When you Get There'.

are the 7" versions of Ostinato/You'll Know... just edited versions of the LP tracks or are they different mixes like the Crossings promo 7".? never seen a copy...

KD

[mikeweil]

Interesting to read different evaluations of these LPs ...

I have most of them, bought them right away when they were issued, and kept them all, there was a German radio jazz station presenting them all as soon as they were out, and a Munich mail order shop that imported them.

If you list all of these LPs from that pool of musicians it shows they are pretty much a mixed bag:

Herbie Hancock - Mwandishi (Warner) *****

Herbie Hancock - Crossings (Warner) *****

Herbie Hancock - Sextant (Columbia) *****

Eddie Henderson - Realization (Capricorn) ****

Eddie Henderson - Inside Out (Capricorn) ****

Eddie Henderson - Sunburst (Blue Note) ****

Eddie Henderson - Heritage (Blue Note) ***

Eddie Henderson - Comin' Through (Capitol) **

Eddie Henderson - Mahal (Capitol) **

Bennie Maupin - The Jewel In The Lotus (ECM) *****

Bennie Maupin - Slow Traffic to the Right (Mercury) ***

Bennie Maupin - Moonscapes (Mercury) ?

Julian Priester - Love, Love (ECM) ****

Julian Priester - Polarization (ECM) ****

Norman Connors - Dance of Magic (Cobblestone) ****

Norman Connors - Dark of Light (Cobblestone) **

Norman Connors - Love From the Sun (Buddah) ****

Norman Connors - Slewfoot (Buddah) *

Carlos Garnett - Black Love (Muse) ***

Carlos Garnett - Journey to Enlightenment (Muse) ?

Carlos Garnett - Let this melody ring on (Muse) ?

Carlos Garnett - Cosmos Nucleus (Muse) ?

One could add more Herbie Hancock, and the Headhunters, to the list, and Return to Forever, Weather Report, Mahavishnu, Lifetime, and fusion albums from these circles (Alphonso Johnson, Billy Cobham, Jan Hammer, etc, etc.) but the above have core members of the Mwandishi band as a common denominator.

They range from acoustic free-fusion (Lotus) over next-to-free-form (Magic - Connors was fresh out of the Pharoah Sanders band that recorded Black Unity, which included Billy Hart, Cecil McBee, Stanley Clarke, and Carlos Garnett, all of which are on Magic!), over electro-acoustic free form fusion (Mwandishi et al) over electric fusion with lots of improvisation (the first two Hendersons and Priester) to funk leanings (the third Henderson and second/third Maupins) and bland commercial outings (the later Connors and Henderson LPs). The three LPs of the Mwandishi band are at the core of this, and they were the main inspiration and artistic pinnacle - the first Eddie Hendersons were just a free-form version of them. Everything after was less satisfying - except Lotus, which is a purely acoustic take on the Mwandishi experiments - and it is especially astonishing to see Norman Connors' development from a free form player from the Sanders band into an average funk drummer, or rather singer - he wanted to sell, that's for sure. Love From the Sun is a beautiful album - it's a pity he didn't follow that direction, but that personnel was impossible to take on the road. Carlos Garnett did pursue that path somewhat on his Muse albums. The stars are my personal ratings - the less, the more bland commercial content.

The 1970's scene was wild - a large number of players was exploring that wide field between free and fusion, with mixed results, and only few didn't record some fusion or funk inflected album (e.g. Tyner, but he had players from that circle in his band, Alphonze Mouzon first of all).

The music was fresh and exciting then, and avant-garde, but the commercialization was to follow very fast.

Edited March 29, 2005 by mikeweil

[mikeweil]

BTW - Bennie Maupin's and Patrick Gleeson's Driving While Black is a lte offspring of that tribe ...

[Degiorgio]

I would personally give Maupin's SLOW TRAFFIC TO THE RIGHT another 2 stars just for the astonishing version of Herbie's QUASAR - the change-up towards the end with the string crescendo always sends shivers down my spine...

I think the post 73 albums should be viewed as 'related' in a loose sense as the Mwandishi concept really was abandoned after Sextant. In the sleevenotes for the new HEADUNTERS Herbie gives the 'too far outta space' reasoning for abandoning the Mwandishi concept - and in a 1974 Downbeat he mentions he ran out of money to keep the band touring.

I would still like to see these sessions revisited by somebody like Michael Cuscuna. I would love to hear the takes as they were recorded - and without the rather dated editing and 'segueing' found on Crossings for example - rather like they presented some of the In A Silent Way material on the Legacy box set.

KD

[Degiorgio]

btw - one of the Downbeat interviews with Herbie catches him after a solo keyboard performance at the Newport Jazz Festival '74. He mentions that he debuted a digital sequencer and ARP 2600 at this performance... anybody a). go to this performance? b). have a recording of it?

If its anything like his solo work on DEDICATION then I'd love to hear it...

KD

[mikeweil]

Still got the DJ-only 7-inch promo w/ pic sleeve of 'Ostinato' b/w 'You'll Know When you Get There'.

are the 7" versions of Ostinato/You'll Know... just edited versions of the LP tracks or are they different mixes like the Crossings promo 7".? never seen a copy...

KD

They were edits of the LP tracks - both were included on the Warner double LP Treasure Chest, which was a selection from his three LPs for the label plus that single.

[Degiorgio]

thx Mike - that's a shame... I was hoping they would be different mixes like the Crossings 7" (which I also think is on Treasure Chest?) - which has more of Gleesons eerie synth overdubs and focuses on that mad space-age boogie woogie section of Sleeping Giant.

[Chuck Nessa]

BTW - Bennie Maupin's and Patrick Gleeson's Driving While Black is a lte offspring of that tribe ...

FWIW, Patrick Gleeson was an "employee" of mine in the early '70s. I was regional manager of a chain of record stores and he was a clerk in our store on 8th St in NYC.

[Degiorgio]

cool - aside from the Mwandishi works I really like what Gleeson did on Lenny White's BIG CITY and VENUSIAN SUMMER (somewhat patchy albums), JOE HENDERSON's later version of Black Narcissus and also Charles Earland's DYNAMITE BROTHERS. I think his peak is that version of QUASAR on the Maupin album... stunning use of synthesized strings.

http://www.cyndustries.com/synapse/synapse...=jan1977&pic=22

(haven't heard his solo synth projects mentioned here.... and wasn't feeling the Driving While Black project)

KD

Edited April 1, 2005 by Degiorgio

[Rooster_Ties]

FYI, there was a prior thread HERE, all about "The Spook Who Sat By The Door".

And because of that thread, I sent b3-er mp3's of three cuts from the album (that I had downloaded from darkfunk.com). Looks like they're still hosted here too, cuz these links all still work. Enjoy!!!

Samples of "The Spook Who Sat By The Door" courtesy of Rooster:

Spooky Clip 1 (2:00, 4 meg) 

Spooky Clip 2 (1:21, 3 meg) 

Spooky Clip 3 (3:40, 7 meg) 

Can you dig it? 

[rostasi]

OK, well guys, give me a few minutes and I'll transfer some cuts from the LP,

so you can hear the music instead of dialogue. I haven't transfered this LP to CDR yet,

so that's why I didn't provide anything earlier, but I'm creating some tracks from LP to my Mac now

and'll give you a heads up inside the hour.

[rostasi]

OK, first, here's Mike Clark talking about "Actual Proof":

"Actual Proof" was to originally be called "The Spook Who Sat By the Door," from the movie soundtrack. I'm proud of the role I played in helping this classic come to fruition.

The producer had asked me to play a rhythm I would have turned my nose up at in eighth grade. I responded that I wanted us to share the interactions and conversations that were going on inside the groove, in the tradition of Elvin and Trane, or Miles and Tony. At this, the producer became enraged and replied that we had one take, one chance, to do it our way, and if we failed, we had to do it his way.

Actual Proof is a Buddhist term which signifies, through the act of chanting Nam Myoho Renge Kyo, that one can transform one's inner life and the environment will respond in kind. I excused myself and sneaked into an empty studio and chanted twenty minutes. It was my determination that we make the first take undeniable, "actual proof," for all the world to hear. I went back in and we did it. One take. It felt exactly as it sounds. And that's why Herbie changed the name to "Actual Proof."

Following are excerpts that feature mostly music. There's lots of dialogue in the other tracks.

I didn't take any of the pops and clicks out - this is just straight off of the LP, so

excuse the quality - it's from 32 years ago, so...

Again, probably the only real reason to buy this recording now is if you're just a Hancock completist

cause "Actual Proof" is available on "Thrust." At the time that I heard this tho, it was from that flexidisc

and the movie was still a year away and "Thrust" was still two years away from release.

(Plus, I've always liked these "blaxploitation" flix - cheap sentiment, I guess )

Spook (short version) [2:51/2.6MB]

Underground [2:03/1.9MB]

The Big Rip Off [4:27/4.1MB]

Recruiting [0:50/788Kb]

The Pick Up [2:04/1.9MB]

Main Theme [1:24/1.3MB]

Spook (long version) [4:13/6.4MB]

[Degiorgio]

"Following are excerpts that feature mostly music. There's lots of dialogue in the other tracks.

I didn't take any of the pops and clicks out - this is just straight off of the LP, so

excuse the quality - it's from 32 years ago, so..."

Rod - thx for doing this... but I'm a bit confused... are you saying you have an original copy of this LP from 1973?

I was under the impression that this album was never commercially available and that the recent bootleg was just audio taken off the video - hence the dialogue and background noise, etc.

Does ANYBODY know any inside info on whether the original master tapes for this soundtrack still exist and who has them? Where was it recorded? Different Fur, SF? The music can't be evaluated properly IMO cos the tracks have the film audio track on them and they also sound sped up.

KD

[Guest akanalog]

mike clark seems like an egotistical prick.

i also got that from something else i read where he said something to the effect that when younger drummers see him come into a club, they play the beat from palm grease to give him "props or propers, which means respect". yeah well you know what mike-your drumming gives me headaches and you couldn't hold a candle to billy hart or tootie heath for that matter who kills it on "the prisoner" or harvey mason, who i don't like so much, but is a much more soulful drummer than you are, mike.

[rostasi]

Sure KD - no prob.

What I remember is that I saw the film at the "Chicago" theater and

bought the soundtrack about '72 or '73 - definitely before Jan. 19, 1974, when I left Chicago.

Then I came back in the 80's and while managing a record store from '85 to '87,

it showed up used if I remember right and I got another copy at that time.

You say "recent" bootleg, so I'm guessing this isn't it.

I just seem to remember this recording always sounding like this.

Many of the blaxploitation LPs from that day had loads of dialogue 'cause

that was the thing to do in those days. Sweet Sweetback.., Black Shampoo,

Malcolm X, Bucktown, etc. all had loads of dialog.

It coulda been a licensing or artistic problem - not getting clearances from labels that the

artists were associated with so they had to fill out the LP, but I'm only guessing.

You're right, tho, the music itself should be released.