jazzbo Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 I do think that counting "lurkers" the impact of these jazz boards is hard to estimate and easy to underestimate. . . . But I'm pretty much in agreement with Brandon, especially about these Time Life Spanish Blue Notes. I know several who will rebuy any US release of titles they did not have before except in the Spanish version. If for no other reason than. . . those all blue covers are hard to take long term! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 If they don't RVG Midnight Special and Back at the Chicken Shack pretty soon, I'm going to boycott something. Probably McDonalds, since I don't eat there anyway, but someone's gonna pay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indestructible! Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 If they don't RVG Midnight Special and Back at the Chicken Shack pretty soon, I'm going to boycott something. Damn Right!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indestructible! Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Having said that... I think MC is to be commended for these RVG choices - for one important reason. It seems to me as though several of the RVGs released over the past couple of years have been by artists who are still alive, and in many cases still touring/playing live. Maybe MC wants these cats to get some extra recognition (via RVG releases) while they are still with us - and just maybe a few more folks will be inclined to attend their gigs? [Of course, this doesn't really apply to the batch Kevin listed in this thread, but still...] Just a thought... Cheers, Shane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Maybe MC wants these cats to get some extra recognition (via RVG releases) while they are still with us - and just maybe a few more folks will be inclined to attend their gigs?Just a thought... Cheers, Shane ← AND they can benefit from royalties. This is always a concern for "good" producers. I can site dozens of reissues dictated by royalty concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 If that's the case than the way it's being handled will be a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 (edited) If they don't RVG Midnight Special and Back at the Chicken Shack pretty soon, I'm going to boycott something. Probably McDonalds, since I don't eat there anyway, but someone's gonna pay! ← But I feel yer pain, Moose... I want those titles too, and have long held off on the regular issues in anticipation of an RVG. Were you around back in the day for the uproar over the Wilkerson & Braith Connoisseurs? Edited June 22, 2005 by ghost of miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmoose Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 No, I missed that, but I can imagine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted June 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Maybe MC wants these cats to get some extra recognition (via RVG releases) while they are still with us - and just maybe a few more folks will be inclined to attend their gigs?Just a thought... Cheers, Shane ← AND they can benefit from royalties. This is always a concern for "good" producers. I can site dozens of reissues dictated by royalty concerns. ← I know Michael tried like hell to get some John Patton out on CD just for this reason. He died with a pile of medical bills. I hope his wife has been able to cope with them. That's one benefit concert I'd try to make. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 If they don't RVG Midnight Special and Back at the Chicken Shack pretty soon, I'm going to boycott something. Probably McDonalds, since I don't eat there anyway, but someone's gonna pay! ← But I feel yer pain, Moose... I want those titles too, and have long held off on the regular issues in anticipation of an RVG. Were you around back in the day for the uproar over the Wilkerson & Braith Connoisseurs? ← "Midnight Special" is available in JRVG format, and it's very good. You can usually get one on ebay without breaking the bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indestructible! Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Maybe MC wants these cats to get some extra recognition (via RVG releases) while they are still with us - and just maybe a few more folks will be inclined to attend their gigs?Just a thought... Cheers, Shane ← AND they can benefit from royalties. This is always a concern for "good" producers. I can site dozens of reissues dictated by royalty concerns. ← I know Michael tried like hell to get some John Patton out on CD just for this reason. He died with a pile of medical bills. I hope his wife has been able to cope with them. That's one benefit concert I'd try to make. Kevin ← Kevin, I would definitely hit any benefit concert for Big John, or at least try to help out if I couldn't make it there myself. I didn't know Patton's wife had a pile of medical bills to deal with... sounds like you've got a good idea there! Cheers, Shane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolff Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 (edited) This may be off topic and preaching to the choir, but the last few posts have reminded me of a few things. Personally, I been concentrating(over the last 6 months) on buying titles from living artists and supporting legit, royalty paying labels. I am very, very disappointed to see so many buying, discussing and promoting titles from PD and rip-off labels. To see Proper and Definitive, for example, be applauded for their titles is the most laughable thing I've run across in jazz reissues in the last year. Frankly, I'm embarassed to see the artists and their legacy shown such disrespect by those who should know better. Spanish blue cover BN's....gimme a break!!!! Unbelievable!!!! Edited June 22, 2005 by wolff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 I have to agree with Kevin. I don't know about the jazz buying public but I'm sure this Boards accounts for a good percentage of that and I'm sure most of us here have heard about the Spanish BNs, which is how I got mine. ← Again, this board does not account for the majority of the jazz buying public in the United States. It is a representation of it, yes. But there are a great many people in this country who are wholly unaware of the many concurrent reissue series in other nations. I think sometimes we forget that the "average joe" is quite a bit less informed about these types of things than your typical Organissimo member. I see the typical US jazz CD buyer not as someone who discusses discographical errors on Internet message boards, but rather people with a more, shall we say, passive interest in the music. It's important to mention that I'm not exactly losing sleep over this or anything. I just think it's worth pointing out is all... ← I'm sure Brandon's right. I don't think that people who don't haunt the internet are that passive either, its just not a priority in their lives to seek out information the way some of us do. This issue will put a Leo Parker release in every Borders and Tower in the country for a year or two in the attempt to persuade people who have bought into other BN artists to try another one. It may well get airplay. And if it sells Rollin' may follow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clunky Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 I'll buy the Leo Parker RVG. I've held off buying any of the Spanish BNs. I've so many BN Cds that the last thing I need is bizarre looking blue CD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 David, I think the reality of the shrinking retail jazz world means that your statement would read more along the lines of: "This issue will put a Leo Parker release in some Borders and Tower stores in the country for a month or two." In a lot of cases they'll order a few copies initially and if they sell, they MAY reorder copies to replace them. . . they may not. I still think it's good that they are releasing this, but I don't think the scope of its distribution will be as you predict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted June 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 The thing about the Leo Parker Blue Notes is that they are technically "no name" dates. No big name "Blue Note" stablemates along for the ride. No Lee Morgan. No Herbie Hancock. Bill Swindell? Yusef Salim? John Burks? Nope. Nobody knows them. This lack of familiarity has historically hurt both of these dates. That's why they've been oop for so long. They're taking a chance by putting this title in there. It will likely not sell as well as the others. Any lost sales for any reason sucks. I absolutely love these dates. They are among my favorites. I burned CD-R copies for the car. They are what I call "pick-me-up" CDs. If I'm feeling bummed about something, I put on one of these and I start smiling. I've been trying to get Michael to put them out as a two-fer in the Connoisseur series. Now, with this coming out in the RVG series, if it doesn't sell, we may never see "Rolling With Leo". Later, Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 David, I think the reality of the shrinking retail jazz world means that your statement would read more along the lines of: "This issue will put a Leo Parker release in some Borders and Tower stores in the country for a month or two." In a lot of cases they'll order a few copies initially and if they sell, they MAY reorder copies to replace them. . . they may not. I still think it's good that they are releasing this, but I don't think the scope of its distribution will be as you predict. ← I'm an optimist! I can't help it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 This may be off topic and preaching to the choir, but the last few posts have reminded me of a few things. Personally, I been concentrating(over the last 6 months) on buying titles from living artists and supporting legit, royalty paying labels. I am very, very disappointed to see so many buying, discussing and promoting titles from PD and rip-off labels. To see Proper and Definitive, for example, be applauded for their titles is the most laughable thing I've run across in jazz reissues in the last year. Frankly, I'm embarassed to see the artists and their legacy shown such disrespect by those who should know better. Spanish blue cover BN's....gimme a break!!!! Unbelievable!!!! ← If I am wrong, someone can correct me, but it was my understanding that the "Spanish blue cover BNs" were a legitimately licensed reissue series put out by Time-Life. While one may find the blue tinting of the covers to be execrable, it is simply wrong to lump them in with "PD and rip-off labels". Again, if I am wrong, someone can correct me. But I'm pretty sure I am not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 As I remember it Dan, you're correct. They were licensed for release within the European market, or a segment of that market. They weren't licensed for US sales, so in that sense they're "gray" in the US. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted June 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 As I remember it Dan, you're correct. They were licensed for release within the European market, or a segment of that market. They weren't licensed for US sales, so in that sense they're "gray" in the US. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong! ← You guys have it right. The Spanish Blue Note series was legit in Spain. It was supposed to be a subscription service of some type. They are not legit for sale in the US... actually, they are not legit anywhere since it was licensed for a subscription service. Unless someone buys them through that subscription service, then they aren't being sold per the contract. BTW, I imagine that one of the reasons Blue Note is so ticked off about these CDs, other than the obvious dent in future sales, is the fact that they were warned not to make this deal. To make matters worse, they actually gave Time/Life a better deal than they give some domestic reissue labels! You can imagine how that made them feel, especially now how it's fallen apart. I doubt you'll ever see another series like this. Basically, Time/Life likely screwed everyone by doing this. Later, Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 The thing about the Leo Parker Blue Notes is that they are technically "no name" dates. No big name "Blue Note" stablemates along for the ride. No Lee Morgan. No Herbie Hancock. Bill Swindell? Yusef Salim? John Burks? Nope. Nobody knows them. This lack of familiarity has historically hurt both of these dates. That's why they've been oop for so long. They're taking a chance by putting this title in there. It will likely not sell as well as the others. Any lost sales for any reason sucks. I absolutely love these dates. They are among my favorites. I burned CD-R copies for the car. They are what I call "pick-me-up" CDs. If I'm feeling bummed about something, I put on one of these and I start smiling. I've been trying to get Michael to put them out as a two-fer in the Connoisseur series. Now, with this coming out in the RVG series, if it doesn't sell, we may never see "Rolling With Leo". Later, Kevin ← Not such a smart move then, isn't it? Maybe they hope that the inclusion in the RVG series boosts the sales, rather than including it in the more obscure Conn series? This is too bad! What a pity there are not three more dates, so Mosaic could do a Select! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 I bet the RVG is a result of it being prepared for Japan at one point or another. I'm not complaining. I'll buy a copy. Maybe I'll buy more copies for Xmas. Like Kevin, I dig these "shot in the arm/non Blue Note formula" Parkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 The Spanish things are cheap, good-sounding, but ugly. Consider them the booty calls of the BN catalog and use them until the real thing comes along, with no lies or pretense. Everybody wins that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aftab Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 The Spanish things are cheap, good-sounding, but ugly. Consider them the booty calls of the BN catalog and use them until the real thing comes along, with no lies or pretense. Everybody wins that way. ← My thoughts exactly - they're like the ugly sister you go out with because the pretty one is busy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 I can see the press release now: 'Blue Note announces a new series - the Blue Note booty calls. No cover art, no liner notes, just a CD-R in a generic CD case. All discographical information will contain a minimum of three errors or typos. This is the economical way that Blue Note has found to market obscure unissued sessions that the artists do not want released. Rejected sessions by such artists as Wayne Shorter, Jackie McLean and Tyrone Washington will finally see the light of day. They will be pulled from the shelves as soon as lawsuits are threatened. The retail price point will be $19.99'. Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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